Railway owned boats.

[Cheshire Scot]

Presume there's one in the River Thames immediately downstream of Nuneham Viaduct just now, although whether it'll be "railway owned", or not, is a moot point.

Perhaps on hire to the railway industry might be the descrition.

 

[randyrippley]

Apparently the Bristol and South Wales Union Railway briefly ran a ferry across the Severn

Bristol and South Wales Union Railway - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Wasn’t Brunel’s ‘Great Western’ paddleship owned as part of the GWR? I believe the intention was for an almost seamless through journey from London-Bristol (overnight in Great Western Hotel), then luxury carriage across Clifton bridge down to Portbury docks, ferry out to Great Western ship for the transatlantic voyage to America. All on one first class ticket!

It didn’t work out in practice though as the suspension bridge was severely delayed in construction and the GWR tried to develop Neyland/Milford as an alternative transatlantic route, but by then technology had moved on and ships were sailing to Southampton or even port of London negating the point of the leg by rail.

 

[jamesr]

Exmouth to Starcross has been family owned for at least a generation, but was it ever railway owned? I recall it appearing in timetables at various times.

 

[daodao]

Exmouth to Starcross has been family owned for at least a generation, but was it ever railway owned? I recall it appearing in timetables at various times.

The Exmouth-Starcross ferry became the property of the South Devon Railway in 1848, but its importance ceased when the Exeter/Exmouth line was constructed in 1861. It is unclear when it ceased to be railway-owned, but it is not shown in the April 1910 Bradshaw's guide.

 

[Snow1964]

The London & South Western Railway had a 1857 vessel called Alice, which was 635t and acquired from Caledonian Railway in 1869.

Sorry I don't have an Caledonian Railway history books to know where it operated, although it appears they ran a steamer service to Rothesay and some Islands in 1860s

 

[billh]

From 1860, the MS&LR operated goods boats on the canals they owned in the north west , the Ashton, Peak Forest and Macclesfield. The reason for this was the canals penetrated areas their railways did not .,
for example, the quarries in the Peak District connected to Bugsworth Basin on the Peak Forest Canal. Many of their boats were engaged in carrying stone ballast for the railway which was trans-shipped to rail at Guide Bridge, I suppose this was not strictly commercial
carriage , more like Engineers' trains? The carrying of any "commercial" loads ceased just after the formation of the GCR around 1900 and the substantial fleet of Company boats passed to the Canal maintainance department, later to the LNER and finally British Waterways.
in the period, 1900 to 1960 this fleet of boats, all built of wood, not iron, were repaired, re-built or scrapped at the Gorton canal depot , adjacent to the Gorton railway works or by private contractors, eg Jinks' boat yard at the top of Marple locks.
One of the boats, Maria, several times re-built still plies the above mentioned canals. The trans shipment dock at Guide Bridge is still partly visible though mostly buried (under spent ballast!).
Not Company boats but related: Isaac Watt Boulton (see: Chronicles of Boulton's Siding) operated a boat passenger service from Dog Lane Station on the SA&M(MSLR) to Marple and Macclesfield . The boats were obtained second hand from the Forth & Clyde Canal, that service finished as soon as railways opened to serve those places.

 

[Gloster]

The London & South Western Railway had a 1857 vessel called Alice, which was 635t and acquired from Caledonian Railway in 1869.

Sorry I don't have an Caledonian Railway history books to know where it operated, although it appears they ran a steamer service to Rothesay and some Islands in 1860s

The second part of Williams’ history of the LSWR say she had originally been owned by the Bee Co., Glasgow, and used for blockade running during the American Civil War. So she was presumably of too large a size for inland work.

EDIT: the second word changed from first to second.

 

[Western Lord]

Wasn’t Brunel’s ‘Great Western’ paddleship owned as part of the GWR? I believe the intention was for an almost seamless through journey from London-Bristol (overnight in Great Western Hotel), then luxury carriage across Clifton bridge down to Portbury docks, ferry out to Great Western ship for the transatlantic voyage to America. All on one first class ticket!

It didn’t work out in practice though as the suspension bridge was severely delayed in construction and the GWR tried to develop Neyland/Milford as an alternative transatlantic route, but by then technology had moved on and ships were sailing to Southampton or even port of London negating the point of the leg by rail.

The Great Western sailed from Avonmouth. Portbury docks are a modern creation.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

The Great Western sailed from Avonmouth. Portbury docks are a modern creation.

Thanks, to my imprecise mind they were wrongly conflated as the same place.

 

[Dr Hoo]

The Birmingham Canal Navigation was bought by the L&NWR. There were no fewer than 27 rail-canal interchange basins/wharves in the West Midlands (including some with the GWR and Midland). As I understand it all three railways had quite a number of narrowboats that basically undertook what would have been regarded as 'cartage' operations elsewhere.

 

[Gloster]

I have a feeling that I have read about the GWR using narrowboats for finally delivery of traffic that had been brought into London by rail. I am not sure where the transshipment took place: possibly Brentford or Southall.

 

[Rescars]

The Birmingham Canal Navigation was bought by the L&NWR. There were no fewer than 27 rail-canal interchange basins/wharves in the West Midlands (including some with the GWR and Midland). As I understand it all three railways had quite a number of narrowboats that basically undertook what would have been regarded as 'cartage' operations elsewhere.

IIRC this carried on into the BTC era. There was at least one factory opened post war, where the only means of shifting the finished goods was by a canal spur to a rail transhipment basin. In this particular case the spur was very short and the barges were unpowered but hauled manually - by a crew of one man only!

 

[EbbwJunction1]

Wasn't there also a rescue boat on standby when Barmouth Bridge was being repaired a year or three ago? Fairly sure it was briefly featured on one of @timmydunn's railway documentaries.

I was there a year or two ago when the work was being carried out, and I have a vague memory of a boat being moored to the bridge.

 

[randyrippley]

Apparently the Humber Ferries (pre-bridge) were BR controlled (or at least according to a BBC documentary I recently caught the end of)

 

[30907]

Apparently the Humber Ferries (pre-bridge) were BR controlled (or at least according to a BBC documentary I recently caught the end of)

They certainly were, bringing back memories!

 

[Gloster]

Apparently the Humber Ferries (pre-bridge) were BR controlled (or at least according to a BBC documentary I recently caught the end of)

I think that the last ferry was the Farringford, which had been built for the Southern and used on Lymington-Yarmouth.

 

[JamieL]

Thinking about it, didn't British Rail used to own the cross-channel Hovercraft?

 

[randyrippley]

Thinking about it, didn't British Rail used to own the cross-channel Hovercraft?

Four of the five SRN4s - "SeaSpeed"
The fifth was "HoverLloyd"
All became SeaSpeed when they pooled resources

and then there's the French Aeroglisseur (sp?) which fits in somewhere when it wasn't broke

 

[John Luxton]

Four of the five SRN4s - "SeaSpeed"
The fifth was "HoverLloyd"
All became SeaSpeed when they pooled resources

and then there's the French Aeroglisseur (sp?) which fits in somewhere when it wasn't broke

These all went to Sea Containers Ltd as Hoverspeed

Of course Sea Co was very much a railway as well as shipping company as VSOE and GNER were very much Jim Sherwood's train set!

 

[DelW]

It didn’t work out in practice though as the suspension bridge was severely delayed in construction and the GWR tried to develop Neyland/Milford as an alternative transatlantic route, but by then technology had moved on and ships were sailing to Southampton or even port of London negating the point of the leg by rail.

Not entirely though, as LSWR and GWR ran expresses between Plymouth and London for transatlantic passengers who wanted a faster journey than via the Channel and Thames Estuary.

LTC Rolt states than the South Western train that derailed due to excessive speed at Salisbury in 1906 was such a service.

 

[Grumpy]

Four of the five SRN4s - "SeaSpeed"
The fifth was "HoverLloyd"
All became SeaSpeed when they pooled resources

and then there's the French Aeroglisseur (sp?) which fits in somewhere when it wasn't broke

Surely it was two Seaspeed (ie BR) and four Hoverlloyd? And they became Hoverspeed when merged?

 

[zwk500]

Not entirely though, as LSWR and GWR ran expresses between Plymouth and London for transatlantic passengers who wanted a faster journey than via the Channel and Thames Estuary.

LTC Rolt states than the South Western train that derailed due to excessive speed at Salisbury in 1906 was such a service.

well into BR days Southampton boat trains were big business. They built a brand new ocean terminal in the 50s with integrated rail platforms, and one of last, or possibly even the last, officially recorded runs by a BR loco at 100mph in frontline service was a Bullied Pacific, built for the boat trains (although I think the 100mph run might have been a Bournemouth Belle rather than a boat train).

 

[Roilshead]

British Nationalised Shipping (Clegg W & Stryng J, Augustus M Kelley, New York, 1968) provides a history of the railway-owned ships and services from 1948, with some detail of history before that date.

As mentioned previously, in 1948 the LMS operated TSS Tern, TSS Swift, TSS Cygnet (although she didn't last long), TSMV Teal, and TSMV Swan on Lake Windermere; the steamers Gondola and Lady of the Lake ran excursions on Coniston Water until 1939.

In Scotland LMS/LNER "Group Committee No 4" operated steamers on Loch Tay (until 1939); Loch Awe, using CSP Countess of Breadalbone (until 1951); and Loch Lomond, using paddlers PS Prince George, PS Prince Edward, and PS Princess May - Prince George was broken in 1922, and Princess May withdrawn in 1952, Maid of the Loch entered service in 1953, and Prince Edward was withdrawn in 1954.

On the Clyde the LNER operated ships from Craigendoran, whilst the LMS-owned Caledonian Steam Packet Co Ltd operated out of Ardrossan, Gourock, Largs, and Wemyss Bay. Over on the Forth the LNER operated a ferry service between Granton and Burntisland which was suspended in 1940 and then formally abandoned in 1947. But, I suppose thse would also be coastal, as opposed to, inland operations.

 

[DelW]

well into BR days Southampton boat trains were big business. They built a brand new ocean terminal in the 50s with integrated rail platforms, and one of last, or possibly even the last, officially recorded runs by a BR loco at 100mph in frontline service was a Bullied Pacific, built for the boat trains (although I think the 100mph run might have been a Bournemouth Belle rather than a boat train).

Slightly different though, as by then I think the transatlantic ships would have been ending their voyages at Southampton, as indeed did QE2 until 2008 and QM2 does now. So there would have been no alternative to onward travel by land transport. (In passing, I've been into the Southampton terminal by train, on the railtour that had to be re-run as the first attempt derailed on the way into the docks.) Pre-Covid, a company did re-introduce charter trains to the terminal for cruise passengers, though concentrating on convenience and comfort rather than speed.

However, the post from Wilts Wanderer that I replied to was talking about the trains being a faster alternative from the far west ports even when the ship was continuing to So'ton or London. However it's all getting a bit abstruse here, as none of the transatlantic ships were railway owned by then .

 

[randyrippley]

Surely it was two Seaspeed (ie BR) and four Hoverlloyd? And they became Hoverspeed when merged?

you're right
SeaSpeed was a typo, the other faulty memory

 

[Strathclyder]

A bit more detail on the PS Maid of the Loch that's been mentioned a couple times in this thread. Due to being intended for inland waterway service and there being no suitable connection between Loch Lomond and the Clyde, she had to be dismantled once partially built at A.J Inglis' yard on the River Clyde, transported by rail to Balloch Pier and reassembled there on a purpose-built slipway, thus she is in effect a 'knock-down' ship.

She has a few notables to her name: she was (still is?) the largest inland waterway vessel ever built in the UK, the last paddle steamer built in a Clyde shipyard and the last paddle steamer built in the UK as a whole.

Might one include the Paddle Steamer 'Maid of the Loch' which once plied its trade on Loch Lomond.

Believe that it was originally owned by the British Transport Commission.

Yeah, she was ordered, commissioned and originally operated by the BTC.

 

[Taunton]

The Great Western sailed from Avonmouth. Portbury docks are a modern creation.

Neither, I believe. The "Great Western", although built upriver in Bristol, had too deep a draft for any of the Bristol docks when fully loaded with coal for the voyage etc, and so had to operate from an anchorage out in the Severn, with a tender, and after a short while transferred to Liverpool. The steamship company had started off good friends with the GWR, but was independent of it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 May 2023 ==

A bit more detail on the PS Maid of the Loch that's been mentioned a couple times in this thread. Due to being intended for inland waterway service and there being no suitable connection between Loch Lomond and the Clyde, she had to be dismantled once built at A.J Inglis' yard on the River Clyde, transported by rail to Balloch Pier and reassembled there on a purpose-built slipway, thus she is in effect a 'knock-down' ship.

Yes, I understand that "The Maid", as always known in Glasgow, was part built at the yard, then the bare hull was, somehow, got up the River Leven, bumping along the bottom in places, and squeezing under Dumbarton bridge, then the rest of it, engines, superstructure etc, was transported to Balloch and final assembly completed there. As I understood Loch Lomond water level is about 25 feet above sea level it must have been quite an enterprise. I regret never having gone for a ride on her when living in Glasgow in the mid-1970s.

 

[Strathclyder]

Yes, I understand that "The Maid", as always known in Glasgow, was part built at the yard, then the bare hull was, somehow, got up the River Leven, bumping along the bottom in places, and squeezing under Dumbarton bridge, then the rest of it, engines, superstructure etc, was transported to Balloch and final assembly completed there. As I understood Loch Lomond water level is about 25 feet above sea level it must have been quite an enterprise. I regret never having gone for a ride on her when living in Glasgow in the mid-1970s.

I did suspect it was just the engines/superstructure etc that were transported by rail between the A.J Inglis yard in Pointhouse and Balloch Pier. Getting her empty hull up the River Leven, keel bumping along the bottom or not, is a remarkable achievement; the main reason I'm not doubting it is because there wouldn't have been another practical way to get it to the loch.

E: Ignore this post in favour of posts #57 and #60. I was right the first time, as is @kylemore below.

 

[kylemore]

Neither, I believe. The "Great Western", although built upriver in Bristol, had too deep a draft for any of the Bristol docks when fully loaded with coal for the voyage etc, and so had to operate from an anchorage out in the Severn, with a tender, and after a short while transferred to Liverpool. The steamship company had started off good friends with the GWR, but was independent of it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 May 2023 ==


Yes, I understand that "The Maid", as always known in Glasgow, was part built at the yard, then the bare hull was, somehow, got up the River Leven, bumping along the bottom in places, and squeezing under Dumbarton bridge, then the rest of it, engines, superstructure etc, was transported to Balloch and final assembly completed there. As I understood Loch Lomond water level is about 25 feet above sea level it must have been quite an enterprise. I regret never having gone for a ride on her when living in Glasgow in the mid-1970s.

The "Maid" was a knock down job transported in sections by rail to Balloch and reassembled on the slipway there - however the last steamer built before the "Maid" the "Prince Edward" built in 1911 was like all her predecessors floated up the River Leven (without her boiler and engines to keep her draught low), unfortunately she "stuck" for the best part of a year in the shallow river missing her first season entirely! So that wasn't an option for the larger "Maid".