Railway operators told 'keep it clean'

[Metroland]

Train companies who continue to dump effluent on the tracks will be facing a bill for cleaning the mess up.

Network Rail is in talks with the Association of Train Operating Companies over what they should contribute toward the cost of repairing damage caused by waste.

The extra charges will hit a number of operators, including those running the old-style high speed trains, refurbished InterCity 125s.

They include National Express, First Great Western and Grand Central, which runs services from King's Cross to Sunderland.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/09/08/bcnrailway108.xml

 

[class 313]

A lot of older DMU/EMU stock do the same too...

 

[Techniquest]

Indeeed. 142s, 143s, 144s, 150s, 153s, 156s and 158s all do the same thing, so why pick on NXEC, FGW and GC in particular then? Exactly how many TOCs have only retention-tanked trains?

 

[voyagerdude220]

VT :razz:

(excluding the Mk3 set when it's let out to play)

 

[class 313]

Indeeed. 142s, 143s, 144s, 150s, 153s, 156s and 158s all do the same thing, so why pick on NXEC, FGW and GC in particular then? Exactly how many TOCs have only retention-tanked trains?

SouthEastern*, South West Trains, FTPE, VT and I think a few more.

*Will be when the 508s leave.

 

[Mojo]

I don't think they were picking on anyone, it was probably just an example by the journalist.

 

[Techniquest]

Fair enough. VWC have the exception of the MK3 set when in use, TPX I'd forgotten about. For SWT, do the slammers have retention tanks now then?

 

[Techniquest]

I don't think they were picking on anyone, it was probably just an example by the journalist.

I didn't literally mean picking on them, just they didn't seem to pick up on the other TOCs.

 

[class 313]

Fair enough. VWC have the exception of the MK3 set when in use, TPX I'd forgotten about. For SWT, do the slammers have retention tanks now then?

Forgot about the Slammers

 

[westcoaster]

fcc tl side all have tanks

 

[class 313]

fcc tl side all have tanks

319s/317s dump on the tracks don't they?

 

[Edvid]

317s do (hence the notice in your post), but 319s have tanks.

 

[richa2002]

Oh wow, photos of toilet notices being photted.

 

[class 313]

317s do (hence the notice in your post), but 319s have tanks.

Odd how 319s do yet 321s don't.

 

[Edvid]

Oh wow, photos of toilet notices being photted.

That was a photo of a toilet notice, not a photo of a photo of a toilet notice.

Odd how 319s do yet 321s don't.

Maybe CET facilities weren't built near the WCML at the time?

 

[Metroland]

Bad news for heritage train operators me thinks. Depends how much NR wants to reclaim, but I could see some one-off tours being unaffordable. Pure conjecture of course, but when a shelter costs £30,000 anything can happen.

 

[class 313]

Maybe CET facilities weren't built near the WCML at the time?

This could be true, just thinking how 321s are older units.

 

[westcoaster]

down to individual operators me thinks , lm321's dont but 350's do, nowt worse than seeing all the waste, on the track at a terminal station plat 8,9,10,11 at euston are horrible.

 

[Edvid]

This could be true, just thinking how 321s are older units.

The 319/0s* are generally slightly older, but the 319/1s* are generally slightly younger. I think the 317/1s were fitted with tanks when built for the MML, but they lost them upon being displaced to the WCML by the 319s.

[* As built]

 

[yorkie]

I think the timing is abysmal. They should have said this a few years ago before the HST refurbishment - I bet retention tanks would have been fitted then!

 

[A60K]

The 319s (and 317s before that) were fitted with retention tanks because they operated in the tunnels to Farringdon.

At the time that these units were built track flush was still the norm. I believe the Mk3 sleepers were the only other stock with retention tanks, until they became standard fitting on all stock around 1990 with Mk4 coaches and 158s.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Dosen't this unfairly penalise TOCs who have inherited stock without retention tanks? For example Northern Rail have a particularly high number of pacers and sprinters, it isn't their fault they don't have them.

 

[gordonthemoron]

dos this not also mean that DaFT will be forced to specify new build in future franchises?

 

[Royston Vasey]

Well if you think about it, the fact that stock wasn't built with tanks was the fault of those who set the specification for the trains when built, that would be, err, British Rail. Oh hang on now, they don't exist any more, so I guess their successors would have to be culpable. Railtrack it is then.... oh but wait, they've been wound up so it'll have to be their successors... oh and look, it's Network Rail.

The solution to this isn't fining the TOCs, it's NR cooperating with them to find a solution, either by retrofitting tanks or sharing the costs of cleanup -this seems to be happening from the tone of the first post however.

 

[me123]

When you think about it, "dumping" the waste is rather disgusting. Surely helping the TOCs finance retention tanks on all possible units would be a good step forward.

 

[A60K]

Curiously, you'll find most (maybe all) European operators still have stock with track dump.

Even in Switzerland you can routinely get on a train where the toilet bowl literally has a large hole at the bottom through which you can see the track. There's a little flap, but the hinges on these are often broken and the flap dangles. The flush handle then simply washes everything out of the bowl that hasn't already fallen straight out!

 

[Galvanize]

Fair enough. VWC have the exception of the MK3 set when in use, TPX I'd forgotten about. For SWT, do the slammers have retention tanks now then?

Toilets on them are locked out of use IIRC

 

[laseandre]

Curiously, you'll find most (maybe all) European operators still have stock with track dump.

Even in Switzerland you can routinely get on a train where the toilet bowl literally has a large hole at the bottom through which you can see the track. There's a little flap, but the hinges on these are often broken and the flap dangles. The flush handle then simply washes everything out of the bowl that hasn't already fallen straight out!

Even the German IC sets.

 

[devon_metro]

Its not feasable to fit retention tanks to older stock. Shouldnt the farcement therefore get their act together and build some bloody trains?

 

[Matt Taylor]

Never swim in the sea around Portsmouth, plenty of effluent comes out of the FGW 158s and either onto the concrete slab track or into the sea below Portsmouth Harbour station.:???:



Matt