Railway locations from the past

[Andy873]

Now I have two WTT's and they name places I have never heard of, a lot of them are junctions, marshalling yards etc.

For example Healey Mills, I had to search for it on the Internet. Many of you (if I had asked would have told me) but my question is this:

Most of us know the main points of motorways (where this meets that / important place / traffic jam likely), but where were these on the railways in the 50s & 60s etc?

Is there some sort of old map showing these places? or can you tell me places to look for / why they were important?

Thanks,
Andy.

 

[30907]

A bit earlier, but you might find the RCH 1906 map of interest (understatement!) but possibly also confusing because it is small scale.
https://timetableworld.com/ttw-viewer.php?token=96e923eb-2450-4af9-ade9-0a071dadb652
They also published a book of Junction Diagrams which was reprinted some time ago (and a Google image search will show you what they look like).
The (ex Ian Allan) Pre-grouping Atlas is one of a number of relevant books - and apparently is now a combined volume with said Junction Diagrams.y

For passenger traffic, the key locations were not very different from today - apart from where through routes have closed (I'm thinking of Melton Constable on the ex M&GN, though that is a bit niche).
Freight, though, was very different with large numbers of marshalling yards (some modernised, others very much not so) and a huge amount of coal traffic. For the latter, Annesley (Nottingham) and Woodford Halse (near Banbury) on the ex GCR, a route and traffic that has totally disappeared.

To keep this thread manageable, perhaps you should specify an area?

 

[Magdalia]

Up to the 1960s movement of freight was very different to what you can see now. As @30907 has already said, coal was the most important traffic. Almost all freight moved in at least 3 stages: supplier to marshalling yard, between marshalling yards and then from marshalling yard to customer.

The marshalling yards were the nodes in the network. Some have long histories going back to before the grouping, but some were huge investments during and following the Modernisation Plan.

There were huge flows of coal from north to south by many different routes. Annesley to Woodford Halse was one but the LNER/ER also moved coal from Mansfield or Langwith (in the coalfields) to Whitemoor (near March) then Temple Mills (near Stratford) or New England (near Peterborough) then Ferme Park (near Hornsey). The equivalent main yards on the Midland Main Line were Toton (near Derby and Nottingham) and Brent (near Cricklewood), and north to south coal traffic was concentrated on this route in the late 1960s.

 

[Pigeon]

For passenger traffic, the key locations were not very different from today - apart from where through routes have closed (I'm thinking of Melton Constable on the ex M&GN, though that is a bit niche).

I dunno, it seems to me that once upon a time the railways were quite fond of creating bizarrely huge traffic centres in the middle of nowhere. Look at the tremendous amount of traffic and bustle there used to be at Chinley, when off the railway there's basically nothing there. Or Trent, where you couldn't even go anywhere except on another train. And smaller examples abound; Tiverton, Ashchurch, Three Cocks, Honeybourne off the top of my head at various different scales.

 

[Taunton]

Trent, where you couldn't even go anywhere except on another train.

This one seems a longstanding urban legend. A subway from the island platform led to the approach road.

Been there (long ago), done that. In fact there was a BR minibus in the road outside (Trent Lane) doing a shuttle to Toton depot.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Now I have two WTT's and they name places I have never heard of, a lot of them are junctions, marshalling yards etc.

For example Healey Mills,

The 'Baker Rail Atlas' (I assume there must be quite a few still in circulation even though SK Baker himself is now deceased) or 'Quail Track Diagrams' (now published by Track Maps) are two 'go to' publications for non passenger locations.

 

[Gloster]

Ian Allan produced a ‘British Railway Atlas 1955’ in 2000. This shows passenger and goods stations, most loco sheds and a fair selection of junctions. They also produced the ‘Pre-Grouping Atlas and RCH Junction Diagrams’, which I think is still available from Crecy Publishing (Ian Allan’s successor). This uses the same map structure, but includes diagrams published by the Railway Clearing House. However, this represents the situation around 1923 and the diagrams only cover locations where two different pre-group companies met. There is a diagram of Preston and a small one of Blackburn, but the rest of the area east to the Yorkshire border isn’t covered as it was all served by the Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway alone. The best for more modern non-public locations, such as marshalling yards and Permanent Way depots, is probably an early edition of Baker: I still find my copy of the second edition (1978) very useful.

 

[contrex]

This one seems a longstanding urban legend. A subway from the island platform led to the approach road.

Been there (long ago), done that. In fact there was a BR minibus in the road outside (Trent Lane) doing a shuttle to Toton depot.

When visiting family in Castle Donington, my uncle used to pick us up from the St Pancras train there in his Wolseley 4/44.

 

[46223]

I find this site useful,

Rail Map online - historic railways, railroads and canals

UK, Ireland and US historic railways, railroads and canals. Includes waggonways, tramways, stations, metro and narrow gauge lines displayed on an interactive Google Map.

www.railmaponline.com

 

[Andy873]

Thanks everyone,

Some really useful links to websites and books mentioned, I will have a good look at them.

My area (East Lancs) had traffic from all over the place, e.g. Carlisle, Goole, West Yorkshire & Nottingham etc so your posts are very helpful to me.

Thanks,
Andy.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Joe Brown's Railway Atlases of the West Midlands and Liverpool-Manchester are excellent for historical detail, including local track diagrams at various dates.
They cover large areas and include industrial links and tramways.

There's also R.A.Cooke's Atlas of the GWR in 1947, which has track diagrams of the whole network including joint lines, so it reaches Birkenhead and Warrington.

 

[Pinza-C55]

I dunno, it seems to me that once upon a time the railways were quite fond of creating bizarrely huge traffic centres in the middle of nowhere. Look at the tremendous amount of traffic and bustle there used to be at Chinley, when off the railway there's basically nothing there. Or Trent, where you couldn't even go anywhere except on another train. And smaller examples abound; Tiverton, Ashchurch, Three Cocks, Honeybourne off the top of my head at various different scales.

Melton Constable
Market Weighton
Woodford Halse
Kirkby Stepen East.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Sheeps Pasture - what a location!

 

[6Gman]

Sheeps Pasture - what a location!

I'll see your Sheep's Pasture and raise you Riccarton Junction!

 

[Bevan Price]

Now I have two WTT's and they name places I have never heard of, a lot of them are junctions, marshalling yards etc.

For example Healey Mills, I had to search for it on the Internet. Many of you (if I had asked would have told me) but my question is this:

Most of us know the main points of motorways (where this meets that / important place / traffic jam likely), but where were these on the railways in the 50s & 60s etc?

Is there some sort of old map showing these places? or can you tell me places to look for / why they were important?

Thanks,
Andy.

Healey Mills, along with Carlisle Kingmoor were relatively recent developments (late 1950s / early 1960s), and largely a waste of money, because the types of traffic they were designed to serve was already disappearing by the time they were built.

Edge Hill (Liverpool, ex-LNWR) was one of the biggest yards in the North West area, but not the only one - there were also yards at Aintree & Fazakerley (ex-L&YR), Speke/Garston (also LNWR), and not too far away, Basford Hall, Crewe (with Crewe South MPD adjacent). One problem for "spotters" is that locations to view "everything" in a town or area were often hard to find. By-pass/avoiding lines, many now closed, meant that a lot of freight trains did not pass through stations. That still applies at Crewe, but there were also avoiding lines at Wigan (The Whelley Loop) and Carlisle, for example.

 

[Taunton]

Highbridge was strange. Nowadays it's a sparsely used wayside halt for a large village on the Bristol-Taunton line. But the old Somerset & Dorset not only crossed the GWR main line at right angles on the flat, but their side of the station had I think five platforms (with very little shelter on them). As the S&D train service to Evercreech was down to about five trains a day in latter times (with possibly five passengers a day as well), it was one for each. Just beyond this luxurious provision were the remains of the main S&D loco and rolling stock works, well removed from its main line, closed in the 1930s but buildings and sidings just allowed to fall into dereliction. There always seemed plenty of parcel vans scattered around, no particular reason why. Being a small place, the S&D works were the principal employer, and being closed during the depression really hit the local economy. Apparently a fair number, with no other prospects there, left for Australia.

 

[Ashley Hill]

John Betjemen visited Highbridge on his Branch Line Railway film. He visited the remains of the works.

 

[Springs Branch]

A couple of "mystery" destinations from my youth were Dewsnap Sidings (between Guide Bridge & Hyde Jn on the ex-Great Central line) and Gowhole Sidings.

Gowhole Sidings were between New Mills & Chinley on the Hope Valley line. Ideally suited for the Midland Railway to sort and recombine its wagons to and from all points of the compass, and a nice, scenic place to visit for an afternoon's photography on a sunny day. But I believe Gowhole Sidings had a reputation amongst railwaymen as a bleak and miserable place to have to work a train in all but the most favourable weather conditions.

 

[Lucan]

the railways were quite fond of creating bizarrely huge traffic centres in the middle of nowhere

Like motorway services then, built where land was cheapest.

 

[Taunton]

John Betjemen visited Highbridge on his Branch Line Railway film. He visited the remains of the works.

It's a wonderful programme, made for BBC TV. John Betjeman was a part-time BBC journalist in the 1950s-60s. He was of course a serious railway enthusiast and his comments on the historic points are spot on. Made the same year, 1962, that I made my one, youthful, trip on the line. Used to have it on videotape, before even DVD, showed it once to the mother of a long-ago girlfriend, who instantly recognised the stationmaster at Evercreech, Mr x. Spot-on for this topic.

 

[daodao]

I dunno, it seems to me that once upon a time the railways were quite fond of creating bizarrely huge traffic centres in the middle of nowhere. Look at the tremendous amount of traffic and bustle there used to be at Chinley, when off the railway there's basically nothing there. Or Trent, where you couldn't even go anywhere except on another train. And smaller examples abound; Tiverton, Ashchurch, Three Cocks, Honeybourne off the top of my head at various different scales.

Close to Three Cocks was Tal-y-Llyn Junction. One summer day about 20 years ago (about 40 years after the closure of the lines passing through it) I visited a delightful open garden there. The station building was now a private dwelling and the platforms were still extant; there was some interesting railway memorabilia illustrating its former role. See photos at https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/945476

 

[Irascible]

I dunno, it seems to me that once upon a time the railways were quite fond of creating bizarrely huge traffic centres in the middle of nowhere. Look at the tremendous amount of traffic and bustle there used to be at Chinley, when off the railway there's basically nothing there. Or Trent, where you couldn't even go anywhere except on another train. And smaller examples abound; Tiverton, Ashchurch, Three Cocks, Honeybourne off the top of my head at various different scales.

Assuming you mean Devon & there's not another Tiverton somewhere, I'm curious what you're getting at with that one. Tiverton town was an important market town for the region; Tiverton Junction besides having a village and a meat packers nearby was the main-line end of two branchlines, one of which was more for the dairy than the passengers - and there was some traffic to sites either side on the main line too. I don't remember when the oil depot arrived but I thought that was after half the other facilities had shut.

 

[55002]

Tinsley, Healy Mills, Shirebrook, Wath all great locations in my Childhood

 

[Ken H]

Tinsley, Healy Mills, Shirebrook, Wath all great locations in my Childhood

Mottram, scunthorpe.

 

[Revaulx]

A couple of "mystery" destinations from my youth were Dewsnap Sidings (between Guide Bridge & Hyde Jn on the ex-Great Central line) and Gowhole Sidings.

Gowhole Sidings were between New Mills & Chinley on the Hope Valley line. Ideally suited for the Midland Railway to sort and recombine its wagons to and from all points of the compass, and a nice, scenic place to visit for an afternoon's photography on a sunny day. But I believe Gowhole Sidings had a reputation amongst railwaymen as a bleak and miserable place to have to work a train in all but the most favourable weather conditions.

I remember going by train to Edale on a school walking trip in the summer of 1969 and being amazed at the size of the recently abandoned yard at Gowhole. I think that the line was still 4-track then; the northern and southern pairs were some distance apart with the sidings between them.

Dewsnap was still very much in operation at the end of the 70s. I remember spending several hours on the platform at Guide Bridge around 1979 and being surprised at how busy it still was, bearing in mind that much of the Woodhead traffic had already left the main line at Godley Junction. It seemed inconceivable that it would all disappear in a couple of years.

 

[Gloster]

I don't remember when the oil depot arrived but I thought that was after half the other facilities had shut.

The Air Ministry Park Sidings added 18 November 1943 according to the relevant volume of the Cooke diagram books (1979 edition). I don’t know when Esso took it over, but I would think it likely that the depot may have been out of use for a while.

 

[Razorblades]

Riccarton Jct has been mentioned up-thread, but I raise you Stobs Camp - four platforms for prisoners of war, military training exercises and troop trains to the Front.

https://www.railscot.co.uk/locations/S/Stobs_Camp/

 

[matchmaker]

Tillynaught. Three platforms, two signal boxes, impressive canopy, etc, for what was basically an interchange platform in the middle of the Banffshire countryside.

Tillynaught

 

[edwin_m]

Assuming you mean Devon & there's not another Tiverton somewhere, I'm curious what you're getting at with that one. Tiverton town was an important market town for the region; Tiverton Junction besides having a village and a meat packers nearby was the main-line end of two branchlines, one of which was more for the dairy than the passengers - and there was some traffic to sites either side on the main line too. I don't remember when the oil depot arrived but I thought that was after half the other facilities had shut.

I think the fact they called it Tiverton Junction was an indication there was very little of any significance there and it was mainly a place to change trains. I presume it was there basically because that's where geography suggested the branches could most easily join the main line and I suspect also the meat packers located there because that's where the station was.

There are many other places where railway junctions are in "non-obvious" places because the relatively constrained geometry of a railway means that is where the lines happened to meet, or it would just have been too expensive or disruptive to the through traffic to put the junction somewhere more significant. Sometimes a community grows up around a railway junction and might even take its name (Llandudno Junction or locally just "Junction"). Crewe and Swindon were insignificant until they found themselves as railway junctions for similar geographical reasons, but when the railway in question decided to put their works there then it gave rise to a sizeable settlement.

 

[Gloster]

I think the fact they called it Tiverton Junction was an indication there was very little of any significance there and it was mainly a place to change trains. I presume it was there basically because that's where geography suggested the branches could most easily join the main line and I suspect also the meat packers located there because that's where the station was.

There are many other places where railway junctions are in "non-obvious" places because the relatively constrained geometry of a railway means that is where the lines happened to meet, or it would just have been too expensive or disruptive to the through traffic to put the junction somewhere more significant. Sometimes a community grows up around a railway junction and might even take its name (Llandudno Junction or locally just "Junction"). Crewe and Swindon were insignificant until they found themselves as railway junctions for similar geographical reasons, but when the railway in question decided to put their works there then it gave rise to a sizeable settlement.

According to the Wikipedia page on Lloyd Maunder, the company moved to Willand (from Witheridge?) in 1913 because it was on the railway and the company was a major supplier to businesses in London, including Sainsburys. All I can remember is visiting the signal box and being dashed glad that I hadn’t applied for a job there due to the stink from the meat processing plant.

As an additional comment about the fuel depot, I came across a reference that suggested it was taken over by Esso in 1957.