Railway Language

[Brush 4]

Language is always changing but, I notice a gradual decline in language that has always been specific to railways. There is a tendency now to refer to locos or trains as being parked, instead of stabled, as in stabling point. Ships are 'berthed', aircraft 'stand' at 'aprons' spacecraft 'dock' at a space station. So, why is the rich language of the railway being superseded by road lingo? Cars and lorries are parked, not trains. Ironically, shed tracks have always been referred to as roads, as in 4 road shed. I'm guessing that this originated from US railroads. Stabling is a hangover from horse drawn days when engine sheds were referred to as engine stables.

Locos hauled dead are these days referred to as being dragged, not towed or indeed hauled. To me, dragged just conjures up images of RuPaul or Lily Savage. Are modern locos gay?

Depots are now facilities, in fact everything these days is a 'facility'. Works, sheds, stations.
Caped seems to be fading away, in favour of cancelled.

Does it matter? Are there any other examples of railway terms being replaced by more general everyday language?

 

[CBlue]

Language changes and always will - this is nothing new.

 

[skyhigh]

Does it matter?

No, not in the slightest.

 

[Bertie the bus]

If stabling is a hangover from horse drawn days when engine sheds were referred to as engine stables seeing as they now aren't referred to as engine stables why is a loco being parked instead of stabled an issue? The name of the place they are parked has changed so why can't action of stabling/parking also change?

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Locos are now more often than in the past referred to as trains - and by no mean exclusively by non-railway savvy people.

And on train buffets (where they still exist) now being called shops.

 

[py_megapixel]

And on train buffets (where they still exist) now being called shops.

I think "shop" is exclusively an Avanti (ex-Virgin) thing. Theirs is, to be fair, closer to a typical shop, in that you can you go in and browse the (very limited number of) shelves - and they sell things other than food (newspapers and I think at one point headphones).

The name "buffet" does seem to have fallen out of favour though, with LNER's and Greater Anglia's being called "café bar", the two Sleepers going for "club car" (Caledonian) and "on-board lounge" (Riviera), and other operators having replaced them with trolleys.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

I think "shop" is exclusively an Avanti (ex-Virgin) thing. Theirs is, to be fair, closer to a typical shop, in that you can you go in and browse the (very limited number of) shelves - and they sell things other than food (newspapers and I think at one point headphones).

The 'non-food and drink' items on Avanti are extremely limited and of the sort often sold in station 'buffets', hardly justifying the differentiation from buffet to shop.
I have also, admittedly only once, heard the description 'shop' on a TPE train on which for some reason the trolley was permanenly stationed in the first class area.

 

[Railsigns]

Are there any other examples of railway terms being replaced by more general everyday language?

I've seen 'contraflow' used instead of 'wrong direction'.

 

[Gloster]

As an old style railwayman, even if long out of it, one phrase I have seen sloppily used is Single Line Working. It had and should, in my opinion, have a very specific meaning: temporarily working trains in both directions over a line only signalled in one. Although words such as parked should not be open to misunderstanding, there are plenty of words or terms that have a very specific meaning and should only be used in specific circumstances and no other words should be used instead. If different people start using different words for the same thing, misunderstandings can happen. And that is how accidents happen.

 

[43096]

The name "buffet" does seem to have fallen out of favour though, with LNER's and Greater Anglia's being called "café bar", the two Sleepers going for "club car" (Caledonian) and "on-board lounge" (Riviera), and other operators having replaced them with trolleys.

Is LNER's "cafe bar" or "Food Bar" - it certainly used to be the latter? "Food bar" of course sounds like FUBAR on the PA.

 

[etr221]

As an old style railwayman, even if long out of it, one phrase I have seen sloppily used is Single Line Working. It had and should, in my opinion, have a very specific meaning: temporarily working trains in both directions over a line only signalled in one. Although words such as parked should not be open to misunderstanding, there are plenty of words or terms that have a very specific meaning and should only be used in specific circumstances and no other words should be used instead. If different people start using different words for the same thing, misunderstandings can happen. And that is how accidents happen.

By chance, a piece on aeroese - the language of airline pilots,etc. - came to me today, at https://aeon.co/essays/the-language-of-the-cockpit-is-technical-obscure-and-irresistibly-romantic . Making that very point.

 

[py_megapixel]

Is LNER's "cafe bar" or "Food Bar" - it certainly used to be the latter? "Food bar" of course sounds like FUBAR on the PA.

I thought it was now officially the "Let's Eat Café Bar".

 

[edwin_m]

In the past the railway was a career for life for most of its employees. Today there is a lot more crossover between railway work and other fields, so railway-specific terminology is now likely to be less understood. One example is the term "in advance of" (no longer used in the Rule Book) which to highway engineers means the opposite of what it does to traditional railway engineers.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Locos are now more often than in the past referred to as trains - and by no mean exclusively by non-railway savvy people.

And trains, including multiple units, referred to as locomotives in the media.

 

[Henffordd]

We seem to have lost the battle for "railway station". Seems that anyone under 40 now uses "train station".

Interesting, though, that permanent way restrictions are still marked with C(ommencement) and T(ermination) rather than S(tart) and E(nd).

 

[Railsigns]

Interesting, though, that permanent way restrictions are still marked with C(ommencement) and T(ermination) rather than S(tart) and E(nd).

Where are they still marked with C for commencement? Not at the lineside.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

We seem to have lost the battle for "railway station". Seems that anyone under 40 now uses "train station".

Is this, at least in part, due to the impact of U.S. based media?

 

[stuu]

The name "buffet" does seem to have fallen out of favour though, with LNER's and Greater Anglia's being called "café bar", the two Sleepers going for "club car" (Caledonian) and "on-board lounge" (Riviera), and other operators having replaced them with trolleys.

Buffet has presumably fallen out of favour because it now generally means somewhere you help yourself to as much food as physically possible

 

[Henffordd]

Where are they still marked with C for commencement? Not at the lineside.

Must have been showing my age.....

 

[D6130]

Buffet has presumably fallen out of favour because it now generally means somewhere you help yourself to as much food as physically possible

....or, in Yorkshire at least, it means something soft to sit on!

 

[12LDA28C]

Language is always changing but, I notice a gradual decline in language that has always been specific to railways. There is a tendency now to refer to locos or trains as being parked, instead of stabled, as in stabling point. Ships are 'berthed', aircraft 'stand' at 'aprons' spacecraft 'dock' at a space station. So, why is the rich language of the railway being superseded by road lingo? Cars and lorries are parked, not trains. Ironically, shed tracks have always been referred to as roads, as in 4 road shed. I'm guessing that this originated from US railroads. Stabling is a hangover from horse drawn days when engine sheds were referred to as engine stables.

Locos hauled dead are these days referred to as being dragged, not towed or indeed hauled. To me, dragged just conjures up images of RuPaul or Lily Savage. Are modern locos gay?

Depots are now facilities, in fact everything these days is a 'facility'. Works, sheds, stations.
Caped seems to be fading away, in favour of cancelled.

Does it matter? Are there any other examples of railway terms being replaced by more general everyday language?

I think you're confusing language used by railway staff with language used by spotters/cranks/enthusiasts to refer to railway operations. The two things are very different.

In your example of locos being hauled 'dead', the phrase 'dragged' is often used by enthusiasts to describe an AC loco that is being hauled on a diversion away from the OHLE but I have not heard operational railway staff use that word in that regard.

Similarly I have never heard railway staff talk of 'parking' their train and indeed trains are often described as being stabled or berthed at a platform, and stabled in a siding. Caped is most certainly still used regularly although more recent entrants to the railway are probably not so familiar with TOPS or Trust categorisations.

Conversely, some people I know who have worked on the railway for a number of years use railway language in their everyday life, for example a night out was 'caped' due to unforeseen circumstances, or a girlfriend being 'given the road' due to unreasonable behaviour.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 May 2023 ==

We seem to have lost the battle for "railway station". Seems that anyone under 40 now uses "train station".

Interesting, though, that permanent way restrictions are still marked with C(ommencement) and T(ermination) rather than S(tart) and E(nd).

I've never seen a 'C' at the start of a TSR/ESR in 30 years plus, the only thing at the start of the restriction is the speed board, although indeed the T board still marks the end.

Personally I always use Railway station, 'train station' being one of my pet hates.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 May 2023 ==

As an old style railwayman, even if long out of it, one phrase I have seen sloppily used is Single Line Working. It had and should, in my opinion, have a very specific meaning: temporarily working trains in both directions over a line only signalled in one. Although words such as parked should not be open to misunderstanding, there are plenty of words or terms that have a very specific meaning and should only be used in specific circumstances and no other words should be used instead. If different people start using different words for the same thing, misunderstandings can happen. And that is how accidents happen.

In what other situation have you seen Single Line Working used? I can't even imagine any other circumstance where SLW would be used apart from the way you describe.

 

[Railsigns]

In what other situation have you seen Single Line Working used? I can't even imagine any other circumstance where SLW would be used apart from the way you describe.

The phrase "single line working" is often used incorrectly to refer to the ordinary everyday operation of a single line.

 

[12LDA28C]

The phrase "single line working" is often used incorrectly to refer to the ordinary everyday operation of a single line.

Not in my experience. SLW is exactly as @Gloster described, it's clearly defined in the Rule Book.

 

[Railsigns]

Not in my experience.

In my experience it is often used incorrectly that way.

SLW is exactly as @Gloster described; it's clearly defined in the Rule Book.

I know what the correct definition is.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

As an old style railwayman, even if long out of it, one phrase I have seen sloppily used is Single Line Working. It had and should, in my opinion, have a very specific meaning: temporarily working trains in both directions over a line only signalled in one. Although words such as parked should not be open to misunderstanding, there are plenty of words or terms that have a very specific meaning and should only be used in specific circumstances and no other words should be used instead. If different people start using different words for the same thing, misunderstandings can happen. And that is how accidents happen.

As another old school railwayman, in general terms I concur with the above. In todays world when it sometimes seems that everything deemed 'old' is being challenged or changed (sometimes just for the sake of change....(?)), it must be remembered that much of what makes up the railway rule book has been the result of decades of learning, sometimes through the consequences of tragic accidents over the years. I learnt my signalling trade based on the principles that governed same from the mid 19th century, and those rules, and the associated terminology stood me (and other signallers) in good stead over the years. In such situations, be it railway, airline, Army, Navy, Airforce etc, there must always be a common set of rules/language that everyone in those situations understands, for the very reasons Gloster has pointed out.

 

[D6130]

I think you're confusing language used by railway staff with language used by spotters/cranks/enthusiasts to refer to railway operations. The two things are very different.

Absolutely. Another common example is the word "shunter"....which to enthusiasts is a small locomotive which moves rolling stock around stations, depots and yards - whereas to railway professionals it means a person who couples and uncouples said rolling stock at those locations.

I've never seen a 'C' at the start of a TSR/ESR in 30 years plus, the only thing at the start of the restriction is the speed board, although indeed the T board still marks the end.

For many years until the late 1960s/early 1970s (?), the commencement of a temporary speed restriction was marked by a black letter 'C' on a white circular background....with the actual mandated speed only shown above the advance warning board. By the time I joined the railway - in November 1975 - it had been superseded by back-lit white numerals on a black square indicator....except, of course on the Western Region - which always had to be different - and used black numerals on a white board, which was front-lit by bottled gas lamps, IIRC. 'C' boards continued to be used in Ireland - on both sides of the border for many years (possibly until about 30 years ago?), but are now used in conjunction with a retro-reflective speed indicator.

Personally I always use Railway station, 'train station' being one of my pet hates.

I fully agree - and so does my wife - but we have to acknowledge that we're in an ever-dwindling minority....so we'll just have to grin and bear it.

 

[Fleetmaster]

Language is always changing and co-opting exiting words to mean new things. Language abhors having to invent entirely new words or preserve a lexicon when the things it describes are evolving. Railways are nothing special in this regard.

Note that even "loco" is a (potentially misleading to outsiders) shortening of "locomotive", which is itself a shortening of "locomotive engine", the original proper term coined for a loco because even a very railway sounding term (to generations) like locomotive actually existed and meant something else before railways were invented.

locomotive | Etymology, origin and meaning of locomotive by etymonline

LOCOMOTIVE Meaning: "pertaining to movement," from French locomotif, from Latin loco "from a place" (ablative of locus… See origin and meaning of locomotive.

www.etymonline.com

1610s, "pertaining to movement," from French locomotif, from Latin loco "from a place" (ablative of locus "place;" see locus) + Late Latin motivus "moving" (see motive).
From 1650s as "moving from place to place;"

 

[eldomtom2]

One example is the term "in advance of" (no longer used in the Rule Book) which to highway engineers means the opposite of what it does to traditional railway engineers.

This change (the new term is "beyond") was supposedly done at the beset of the Plain English Campaign. On other forum someone involved in rule-writing has made some extremely critical remarks about the PSC's involvement with railway rules over what seem to me to be very minor issues, such as changing "temporary restriction of speed" to "temporary speed restriction".

 

[Railsigns]

such as changing "temporary restriction of speed" to "temporary speed restriction".

The phrase "temporary speed restriction" has been in use for ages. I think it was only the Western Region that had to be different by using "temporary restriction of speed" instead.

 

[Gaelan]

The name "buffet" does seem to have fallen out of favour though, with LNER's and Greater Anglia's being called "café bar", the two Sleepers going for "club car" (Caledonian) and "on-board lounge" (Riviera), and other operators having replaced them with trolleys.

The ScotRail HSTs have what their website calls an “onboard cafe” as well.

On the other hand (and getting a little off topic), Amtrak Cascades claims to have a “bistro car”.