Railway Industry Codes vs Air Industry Codes

[Farnborough]

Only on a railway forum could people try and find fault with using the train station codes for the start and end points of the journey. To think that railway staff recognise and use on a daily basis and have no issues with it, yet people on here are laughing at a supposed error that doesn't even exist.

There is a difference though... while railway staff (and railway geeks) will use station codes, the general public do not.

However, airport codes are widely used, even by the general (not just travelling) public.

For example, how many ordinary people would know the codes for the three Heathrow railway stations (HXX, HAF, and HWV), but I bet most know the airport is LHR

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think the railway codes have become more commonly known these days, as they're used on railway apps, posters etc. I doubt many know those three, but I expect a large proportion of passengers know where EUS, MAN and the likes are, even if they confuse New St with Barnes.

 

[8ace]

I think the railway codes have become more commonly known these days, as they're used on railway apps, posters etc. I doubt many know those three, but I expect a large proportion of passengers know where EUS, MAN and the likes are, even if they confuse New St with Barnes.

And e-tickets as well, for those of us who need reading glasses they are more prominent than the actual station name just above in much smaller lettering. Thinking about airplane boarding passes to something very similar but I don't have one on hand to check.

 

[edwin_m]

Is there a case for changing the CRS code, for IATA codes such as BHX that don't match any existing CRS code? Or at least setting up booking systems so anyone trying to access BHX is re-directed to BHI or vice versa? For this particular one the future HS2 station complicates things, as this will presumably have a new and different CRS code.

It's more difficult where the IATA code matches a CRS code for a different station, such as MAN. This would need the CRS code in question to be "retired" for a few years and replaced by something else before being brought back to refer to the airport station.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

There is a difference though... while railway staff (and railway geeks) will use station codes, the general public do not.

However, airport codes are widely used, even by the general (not just travelling) public.

For example, how many ordinary people would know the codes for the three Heathrow railway stations (HXX, HAF, and HWV), but I bet most know the airport is LHR

Who in general conversation uses these codes? Nobody says 'in flying from LHR'. There was no real need to use codes in the press release, and nobody will use them outside of train diagrams etc.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Who in general conversation uses these codes? Nobody says 'in flying from LHR'. There was no real need to use codes in the press release, and nobody will use them outside of train diagrams etc.

People won't say LHR in conversation because it's clumsier to say than "Heathrow". People however absolutely do write it down on the likes of social media because typing "LHR" is quicker than typing "Heathrow".

The one, as an aside, that really grates, is the way Luton now uses "LLA" in its branding...just no! That's Lulea in Sweden apparently.

 

[pr1]

Is there a case for changing the CRS code, for IATA codes such as BHX that don't match any existing CRS code? Or at least setting up booking systems so anyone trying to access BHX is re-directed to BHI or vice versa? For this particular one the future HS2 station complicates things, as this will presumably have a new and different CRS code.

It's more difficult where the IATA code matches a CRS code for a different station, such as MAN. This would need the CRS code in question to be "retired" for a few years and replaced by something else before being brought back to refer to the airport station.

CZN is free for Curzon Street

 

[8ace]

CZN is free for Curzon Street

I'd imagine they'd want to start it with a B like BHM, BHI, BMO or BSW - so I'd go for BCR
I think it's only the London stations that don't start with the name of the location (apart from LBG obvs). That is if you considered it to be "London Euston" and not just "Euston" (I don't).
ZFD for Farringdon is the one that's always confused me.

 

[etr221]

I'd imagine they'd want to start it with a B like BHM, BHI, BMO or BSW - so I'd go for BCR
I think it's only the London stations that don't start with the name of the location (apart from LBG obvs). That is if you considered it to be "London Euston" and not just "Euston" (I don't).
ZFD for Farringdon is the one that's always confused me.

A lot of TfL (London Underground) stations have CRS codes starting with a Z - without knowing, I assume Farringdon's ZFD goes back to when it was an LT (only) station.

So, a question (or a few): when were CRS codes first introduced, and when were they first specified for all stations? Can anyone provide (or give source for) the initial list? Or - even better - an all time list? Is there a complete list of CRS, etc. codes (that all go in the same sequence) - not only for passenger stations, but other things, available somewhere?

 

[cle]

Who in general conversation uses these codes? Nobody says 'in flying from LHR'. There was no real need to use codes in the press release, and nobody will use them outside of train diagrams etc.

People certainly do in the US (especially weird ones like XNA - it's said outloud) - but I've heard people use ORD and SFO - and LAX of course, probably the biggie outside of JFK itself - but DFW, ATL (also city nickname) - there are many.

Canada less so as they have all the weird Y stuff going on.

Over this side of the pond, I've heard MAN, CDG, LHR, AMS, DXB - but yes admittedly it's not in the 'zeitgeist' as much. But these are infinitesimally better known than rail codes, in gen pop.

 

[Bald Rick]

I'd imagine they'd want to start it with a B like BHM, BHI, BMO or BSW - so I'd go for BCR

Well it’s the New Station for Birmingahm, so obviously it will be BNS.

 

[8ace]

Well it’s the New Station for Birmingahm, so obviously it will be BNS.

Or BHS = Birmingham High Speed

 

[Merle Haggard]

A lot of TfL (London Underground) stations have CRS codes starting with a Z - without knowing, I assume Farringdon's ZFD goes back to when it was an LT (only) station.

So, a question (or a few): when were CRS codes first introduced, and when were they first specified for all stations? Can anyone provide (or give source for) the initial list? Or - even better - an all time list? Is there a complete list of CRS, etc. codes (that all go in the same sequence) - not only for passenger stations, but other things, available somewhere?

The same codes that are now called CRS codes were certainly in use on BR in 1970-71, but I don't think that the context was the same as today.

I encountered them then when working with the National Passenger Accounting and Audit System (NPAAS) - I think I have the two 'A's on the right order - which was a system to allocate passenger revenue to service groups.

NPAAS used on-train surveys - physically examining tickets and recording them in writing using the three letter codes for speed. I don't know of any other use of the codes.

There were several different and seemingly parallel code systems on BR at the time. We certainly never used the 'CRS' codes at stations or in Operations to my first hand knowledge. Operating used long established abbreviations such as WO for Wellingborough, NN for Northampton and CWD for Cricklewood, for example, although these were informal and not laid down anywhere officially.

I worked on the LMR but the NPAAS was BR-wide. I have the memory (which may be wrong, of course) that the codes evolved on the hoof as each service group was examined but there was reference to other regions' code lists to avoid duplication. By 'on the hoof' I mean that I don't think anyone at the Centre produced a logical list of for each station in one go, which is why there are so many illogicalities in it. For instance, Normanton was coded NOR rather than the much larger NORwich or NORthampton suggesting that someone needed a code for Normanton before the need for one for Norwich or Northampton arose, so NOR was vacant.

Presumably the codes were carried over to later, computer based system relying on logic rather than empirical examination (eventually, presumably, ORCATS) and gained wider use from that.

 

[SargeNpton]

A lot of TfL (London Underground) stations have CRS codes starting with a Z - without knowing, I assume Farringdon's ZFD goes back to when it was an LT (only) station.

So, a question (or a few): when were CRS codes first introduced, and when were they first specified for all stations? Can anyone provide (or give source for) the initial list? Or - even better - an all time list? Is there a complete list of CRS, etc. codes (that all go in the same sequence) - not only for passenger stations, but other things, available somewhere

Every LU and DLR station has a CRS code in the Z-- series. Indeed, you may find some LU stations that have different codes for platforms on different lines and different codes for LU and National Rail where they share infrastructure).

CRS codes were introduced circa 1981, when seat reservations were first computerised. Initially on the ECML, and then expanded across the other regions. The general rule is that the first letter of the code should match the first letter of the station's long name (there are a couple of exceptions). London termini in the early 80s did not use the "London" prefix in the reservation system, hence the reason why they do not all have a code in the L-- series.

Some non-station locations have codes in the X-- series. Also, some virtual locations that only appear in retail systems have codes in the Q-- series.

Though initially created for reservations, CRS codes are now used in a variety of retail and non-retail systems. Consequently, any attempt to change an existing code can be a long drawn out process.