Railway holiday

[IanRLihou]

Good evening, this is my first foray into the world of UK rail so I am asking for assistance. Next year my wife and I are planning a holiday using trains only for transport. We will be flying in from Australia, catching a train out of the airport, probably Heathrow, and then travelling exclusively on trains for the rest of our juourney except for catching the ferry to and from Guernsey.
What we'd like to do is take in as many of the 10 of the greatest British rail journeys as described in a couple of lists. See below:-
St Erth to St Ives, Settle to Carlisle, Craven Arms to Llanelli, Dawlish to Devon, Glasgow to Mallaig*
London to Fort William*, Ffestiniog Railway, Orient Express London to Bath (and beyond), Durham to Berwick Upon Tweed, Bluebell railway Sussex, Inverness › Thurso › Wick, Dingwall › Kyle of Lochalsh
Fort William › Mallaig*, Newcastle › Edinburgh.
My question is, is there a map available which shows all or more of these great train journeys? Coming from Australia these places are quite unfamiliar to us and we really have no idea where they are situated relative to one another. Any help and advice will be appreciated. Ian

 

[Techniquest]

In advance of your visit, I hope you'll enjoy your trip! That's quite a mix going on there.

I'm not super up to date on things these days, but one thing to mention is the Orient Express? There's those super-fancy special trains like that but any train from London Paddington to Bath Spa will do the trick.

To do all of those journeys will take a good few days, be warned.

Craven Arms to Llanelli via Llandrindod Wells, a route better known as the Heart of Wales, is definitely one I recommend doing. I am a little biased as it was formerly one of my most local railway lines. It's a slow journey, but it is a nice one. Catering on board is not amazing when it is actually on board, and I highly recommend getting seat reservations (free on almost all if not all ticket types) as some services along that route are operated by single-carriage trains. They do get busy quite often, and neither side of the train is better than the other in my experience. Both sides offer good views.

Glasgow to Mallaig, on the West Highland Line, is still one of my top railway journeys in the world. It is beaten only by the Raumabahn in Norway and the Bernina Express in Switzerland in my opinion, by the way both are well worth doing if you ever get the chance. Fort William to Mallaig is the best part of the route, again in my eyes, but the journey once past Helensburgh on the journey from Glasgow is still stunning. I haven't been that way for years but will do again some day. Definitely advised to get seat reservations, and I can't remember the on-board catering or if it exists.

The St Ives branch is nice and short but a good one to do. I would also suggest, if time permits, to do the journey from Liskeard to Looe as that's also rather nice from what I remember of it in 2005.

The journey through Dawlish is definitely one I recommend doing, especially if the weather is nice. The ride alongside the sea is just awesome on a summer's day, and any journey from Exeter to Newton Abbot will take you along it. As a suggestion, maybe alight at Teignmouth (local trains only) for a walk around, then get another local train to Dawlish and walk along the sea wall if the weather is good, rejoining a local train at Dawlish Warren.

Out of the journeys in the Far North, a journey from Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh will be more interesting visually than the long journey to Thurso and Wick. Nothing wrong with the line to Thurso, but the Kyle line is definitely nicer in my eyes.

The Settle & Carlisle, yes it's a nice journey but I'd go for the West Highland Line if I had to choose. The S&C is nice, don't get me wrong, and is worth doing to say it's been done but if time is of the essence then not so much. The Highland Main Line, particular when it's just snowed, is a better ride and can be done between Perth and Inverness.

Never done the Ffestiniog so can't comment there.

Durham to Berwick-upon-Tweed isn't too bad, but there's only limited bits of that route I'd say were all that enjoyable. For better scenery going to Scotland, the line between Lancaster and Glasgow is better as you get to travel through part of the Lake District on the way to Carlisle, the Border City, just before crossing into Scotland.

The Bluebell Railway, yes it is OK but it's far from the best heritage railway. In that respect I'd vote for the Severn Valley Railway from Kidderminster to Bridgnorth.

Whatever you choose to do, you will no doubt have a great time looking out of the window at the scenery!

 

[30907]

First attempts:
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations_destinations/maps.aspx
Not searchable AFAIK
https://www.scenicrailbritain.com/map
The categories "scenic" and "epic" cover most of the routes you have listed, untick the other categories.
Exceptions are the Bluebell (East Grinstead, an hour south of London) and the Orient Express excursion - Bath is 100miles West of London. Neither of these is
part of National Rail, and the Orient Express isn't for anyone on a budget!
Durham to Berwick and Newcastle to Edinburgh overlap.
You have obviously spotted the multiple Fort William options, one of which is presumably the overnight sleeper - just to say that the steam train from Ft Wm to Mallaig is often fully booked (and again is not covered by a Britrail Pass).

I can't find a searchable map, but Googlemaps satellite view will do most of what you need including highlighting the rail routes and giving train times.

Plenty more advice available on here, probably too much - welcome - and don't worry if the thread ends up arguing which route is best.

 

[krus_aragon]

The places you've listad are quite well distributed around Britain, and planning on visiting them all could be a challenge, depending on the number of days you have available to you.

To take the example of the two railways in Wales you named (Heart of Wales and Ffestiniog), if you were starting from Bath, you'd be looking at a three hour positional move to Llanelli, the journey along the Heart of Wales to Shrewsbury would be nearer four hours, then another positioning move from Shrewsbury to Porthmadog for the Ffestiniog would be another three-and-a-half hours. The frequency of the HOWL (~4-hourly) and Shrewsbury-Porthmadog (2-hourly) and connection times mean you'd probably have to allocate a day each to those two lines.

If you are forced to choose between the two, I'd heavily recommend the Ffestiniog. I mean no slight against the HOWL, but it is similar in many respects to other lines you've mentioned. The Ffestiniog is narrow gauge, has the distinctive, world-famous Fairlie engines, shares a station with the Welsh Highland Railway's impressive Garratt locomotives, and is operated by one of the most established heritage railway movements in the UK.

 

[Oscar46016]

On the scotland part I would suggest you deviate from train only.

Glasgow - Mallaig then a ferry to Isle of Skye - you can then get a bus / taxi on skye to the other end of the island then hop across to Kyle of Lochalsh to resume your journey.

I've done this a couple of times with a b&b along the way.

 

[Iskra]

A lot of the Scottish stuff can be covered in one logical itinerary. However your plan involves covering a hell of a lot of ground. What are you wanting to do, to see places or travel on lots of trains?

Personally I would ditch Wales for convenience. Yes, it's nice, but it isn't substantially different enough to what you are already seeing elsewhere to justify a detour. You could then do Scotland-Settle/Carlisle-Cornwall in a much more logical fashion.

One thing that you haven't mentioned is using a sleeper train, this is an experience in itself, would save you paying for a nights accommodation and can be time-efficient. There are sleeper trains between London and Scotland and London and Devon/Cornwall.

I would aim to travel North from London using one main line, and South back to London using the other. Although both are dull near London, Lancaster-Glasgow/Edinburgh is exceptional and York-Edinburgh also has many interesting features and is exceptional in places.

 

[krus_aragon]

What we'd like to do is take in as many of the 10 of the greatest British rail journeys as described in a couple of lists. See below:-

1. St Erth to St Ives,
2. Settle to Carlisle,
3. Craven Arms to Llanelli,
4. Dawlish to Devon,
5. Glasgow to Mallaig*
6. London to Fort William*,
7. Ffestiniog Railway,
8. Orient Express London to Bath (and beyond),
9. Durham to Berwick Upon Tweed,
10. Bluebell railway Sussex,
11. Inverness › Thurso › Wick,
12. Dingwall › Kyle of Lochalsh
13. Fort William › Mallaig*,
14. Newcastle › Edinburgh.

My question is, is there a map available which shows all or more of these great train journeys?

I've downloaded an old (2014) copy of the National Rail map (back when it was still available in a geographically accurate version) and labelled all the lines you listed, to give you an idea of where they are. Note that options 9 and 14 overlap, as do 5 and 6 (I haven't coloured in the London-Glasgow portion of 6, which would typically be via Preston, Crewe and Rugby). The Bluebell railway isn't included on the map, but I've marked its general location.

 

[krus_aragon]

Personally I would ditch Wales for convenience. Yes, it's nice, but it isn't substantially different enough to what you are already seeing elsewhere to justify a detour. You could then do Scotland-Settle/Carlisle-Cornwall in a much more logical fashion.

I'd contend that the Ffestiniog is very different to everything else listed, but accept that the detour might not be practical given limitations on time.

 

[Iskra]

I'd contend that the Ffestiniog is very different to everything else listed, but accept that the detour might not be practical given limitations on time.

If steam is a necessity, he could just do the Jacobite between Fort William & Mallaig. Some compromises are going to have to be made somewhere on an itinerary that vast in the specified timescale.

It is definitely worth taking the time to understand the geography of the UK rail network before making plans. I once got confused about Swedish rail geography and ended up heading back South the way I had come for an hour before getting a train back North through where I had just been, late at night in below freezing temperatures! ...An online booking engine accentuated my error as I'd requested to set off on day X but the train I needed Northbound didn't arrive until after midnight on day X, so the booking engine made me head South to a station where I would be departing on day X. A cautionary tale ...although, obviously as I'm a rail enthusiast I still enjoyed it.

 

[ChrisC]

I'd contend that the Ffestiniog is very different to everything else listed, but accept that the detour might not be practical given limitations on time.

I stayed in Caernarfon earlier this year and went on the Welsh Highland Railway and the Ffestiniog. I know it’s personal choice but I actually enjoyed the Welsh Highland more than I did the Ffestiniog.

 

[IanRLihou]

What a great lot of responses, thankyou. I will print them out and my wife and I can discuss.

 

[IanRLihou]

I've downloaded an old (2014) copy of the National Rail map (back when it was still available in a geographically accurate version) and labelled all the lines you listed, to give you an idea of where they are. Note that options 9 and 14 overlap, as do 5 and 6 (I haven't coloured in the London-Glasgow portion of 6, which would typically be via Preston, Crewe and Rugby). The Bluebell railway isn't included on the map, but I've marked its general location.[/QUOTE

I've downloaded an old (2014) copy of the National Rail map (back when it was still available in a geographically accurate version) and labelled all the lines you listed, to give you an idea of where they are. Note that options 9 and 14 overlap, as do 5 and 6 (I haven't coloured in the London-Glasgow portion of 6, which would typically be via Preston, Crewe and Rugby). The Bluebell railway isn't included on the map, but I've marked its general location.

Thank you very much
krus_aragon

 

[James Wake]

I’m a volunteer on the Bluebell and can recommend a visit, also Severn Valley is another good one if you’re in the Birmingham area.

I’ve done 4 All Line Rovers (similar to BritRail passes but more expensive for citizens) so can offer some advice:

I did Inverness-Kyle-Skye-Mallaig-Glasgow in 2015, starting with the 0855 train from Inverness to Kyle which gave a 15 minute connection last summer (was 2 hours when I did it) onto the 51A to Armadale Pier on Skye, then a ferry crossing to Mallaig in plenty of time for 1605 train from Mallaig to Fort William and Glasgow. Do check connections or ask here before you leave as you won’t want to get stranded.

Cornwall is a lovely place to visit, and I quite like the Looe branch as well as the St Ives, you could catch the sleeper train down to or from Cornwall from London or Reading if you wanted to try that out. There are plenty of day trains as well.

Enjoy your holiday.

 

[IanRLihou]

I’m a volunteer on the Bluebell and can recommend a visit, also Severn Valley is another good one if you’re in the Birmingham area.

I’ve done 4 All Line Rovers (similar to BritRail passes but more expensive for citizens) so can offer some advice:

I did Inverness-Kyle-Skye-Mallaig-Glasgow in 2015, starting with the 0855 train from Inverness to Kyle which gave a 15 minute connection last summer (was 2 hours when I did it) onto the 51A to Armadale Pier on Skye, then a ferry crossing to Mallaig in plenty of time for 1605 train from Mallaig to Fort William and Glasgow. Do check connections or ask here before you leave as you won’t want to get stranded.

Cornwall is a lovely place to visit, and I quite like the Looe branch as well as the St Ives, you could catch the sleeper train down to or from Cornwall from London or Reading if you wanted to try that out. There are plenty of day trains as well.

Enjoy your holiday.

Thankyou James

 

[ChiefPlanner]

If you are in the Portmadog area (Ffestiniog turf) - the Cambrian Coast line is a real "must do" - outstanding in parts , with a mountain background. Travel towards Machynlleth , which is in itself a good place for an overnight stay.

 

[30907]

Depending how much time you have, and how much of it you want to spend travelling, a rough sequence (with a few tourist hotspots inserted) would be
London
Salisbury - to see the spire, of course
Cornwall/Devon
Central Wales Llanelli-Shrewsbury.
Cambrian Coast
Festiniog
Conwy Valley
Chester
Settle-Carlisle
Glasgow-Mallaig
Skye as suggested
Kyle-Inverness
(Wick and back, but I wouldn't!)
Stirling/Edinburgh
Berwick to Durham
Durham/York
North York Moors Railway
Cambridge
London

Your Guernsey trip would fit between London, Salisbury and Cornwall, though there isn't much advantage to be gained (I would do Dorchester to Axminster by bus, it's a lovely ride).

It doesn't allow for sleeper journeys - the new Caledonian Sleepers will be in service by late May, the Penzance sleepers are being refurbished now. If you use a sleeper to/from Scotland, you would need to cut one of the Berwick to Durham or the Settle and Carlisle lines.

One other comment - travel light!

 

[IanRLihou]

Depending how much time you have, and how much of it you want to spend travelling, a rough sequence (with a few tourist hotspots inserted) would be
London
Salisbury - to see the spire, of course
Cornwall/Devon
Central Wales Llanelli-Shrewsbury.
Cambrian Coast
Festiniog
Conwy Valley
Chester
Settle-Carlisle
Glasgow-Mallaig
Skye as suggested
Kyle-Inverness
(Wick and back, but I wouldn't!)
Stirling/Edinburgh
Berwick to Durham
Durham/York
North York Moors Railway
Cambridge
London

Your Guernsey trip would fit between London, Salisbury and Cornwall, though there isn't much advantage to be gained (I would do Dorchester to Axminster by bus, it's a lovely ride).

It doesn't allow for sleeper journeys - the new Caledonian Sleepers will be in service by late May, the Penzance sleepers are being refurbished now. If you use a sleeper to/from Scotland, you would need to cut one of the Berwick to Durham or the Settle and Carlisle lines.

One other comment - travel light!

That's great, thanks 30907