Railway General Knowledge.

[D6130]

Continuing the theme, how many Birmingham R & C W Co. Type 2 diesel-electric locomotives (later to become classes 26 and 27) were withdrawn before receiving TOPS numbers?

 

[Gloster]

One? The Kegworth (?) loco?

 

[D6130]

One? The Kegworth (?) loco?

I'm afraid not.

 

[xotGD]

Five?

 

[D6130]

Five?

No....less than that - but obviously more than one.

 

[xotGD]

Three?

 

[D6130]

Three?

Afraid not....but you're getting warmer! Bonus point if you can quote the loco numbers. Extra bonus point if you can quote the year of withdrawal. Extra, extra bonus point if you can quote the year of and reason for withdrawal. (with or without assistance from Wikipedia!)

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

2? Damaged in a crash? 1986?

 

[D6130]

2? Damaged in a crash? 1986?

The number of locos is correct, but the years are wrong. However, the question did ask for the number of locos, so you are the winner.

The locos involved were D5383, which would have become a class 27, but was badly damaged in a rear end collision between two freight trains at East Langton - near Market Harborough - in May 1965. It was cut up at Derby Works just under a year later.

The second loco was class 26 no. 5328, which was withdrawn in July 1972 from Haymarket Depot and cut up at Glasgow (St Rollox) Works in October of that year. I've never managed to ascertain the exact reason for its premature withdrawal, but I assume that it was due to collision or fire damage. What should have been its TOPS number - 26 028 - was allocated to 5320. 26 020 was allocated in turn to 5307 and 26 007 to 5300....in order to keep the three distinct batches of class 26 locos together.

 

[SteveyBee131]

Does @LSWR Cavalier have a question for us as they got the previous one correct?

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Heinrich Kirchweger (1809-1899) devised a locomotive with a funnel on the boiler, and a funnel on the tender. Looked a bit strange but logical, symmetrical. What did the Kirchweger system achieve? Why was it abandoned?

 

[xotGD]

Did it achieve more even and efficient heat distribution in the boiler.

Abandoned due to being unreliable.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

N

Did it achieve more even and efficient heat distribution in the boiler.

Abandoned due to being unreliable.

Not quite, it did save fuel but was replaced by another brilliantly simple invention.

 

[DerekC]

Preheating of the boiler feedwater, perhaps? Abandoned because it used to set light to the coal in the tender!

Edit - more likely reason for abandonment because a flexible connection for hot flue gases would be hard to achieve?

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Preheating of the boiler feedwater, perhaps? Abandoned because it used to set light to the coal in the tender!

Edit - more likely reason for abandonment because a flexible connection for hot flue gases would be hard to achieve?

Correct, he devised the Abdampfvorwaermer, some of the exhaust went up the front chimney to pull the fire, the rest was used to warm the water in the tender, then it was spewed out of the chimney at the back of the tender. The 4-2-0 loco with tender looks like a pushme-pullyou.

About 1870 the injector took over.

Over to you.

 

[DerekC]

Thanks. Let's go back to the beginning. As is well known, the very first locomotive hauled trip on a railway* anywhere in the world was on the Pen-y-Darren tramway in South Wales and involved a prize. For full points (starting with the easy bit):

1. Who designed and built the locomotive?
2. What year did this happen in?
3. How far was the trip (to the nearest mile)?
4. What load had to be carried?
5. What was the prize?

* (for the flanged wheeled pedants, including a plateway like the Pen-y-Darren)

 

[TheEdge]

1. Richard Trevithick
2. 1804

Not sure about the rest

 

[DerekC]

@TheEdge - correct as far as 1) and 2) are concerned. Have a guess for the others.

 

[xotGD]

3. 3 miles
4. Coal
5. A silver cup

 

[TheEdge]

@TheEdge - correct as far as 1) and 2) are concerned. Have a guess for the others.

5 miles
Some iron ore.
Given this is Victorian engineers its either money, each others company or land holdings in India.

 

[DerekC]

3. 3 miles
4. Coal
5. A silver cup

Not very close

5 miles
Some iron ore.
Given this is Victorian engineers its either money, each others company or land holdings in India.

3) A bit more than 5 miles - Penydarren to Abercynon
4) The right stuff - but later in the process when it was denser and more valuable - what weight might a loco of that era be expected to haul?
5) Nothing to do with India. The prize (actually it was a bet) was between two ironmasters (Samuel Homfray and Richard Crawshay) - Homfray was sponsoring Trevithick and owned the Penydarren iron works.

 

[DerekC]

Time for a clue, perhaps. The bet was worth well over £50,000 in today's money and that's the number you get if you multiply the answers to (3), (4) and (5) together.

 

[DerekC]

Time to close this one off, I think, The bet laid by Samuel Homfray was for 500 guineas (over £50,000 today), that Trevithick's locomotive could pull ten tons of iron ten miles from Penydarren to Abercynon. The trip was made on 21st February 1804, taking just over four hours, the wagons carrying 70 people as well as the iron!

Trevithick was an interesting character who had good ideas but never seems to have pursued them to a successful conclusion. He pioneered high pressure steam, coupling the wheels to increase adhesive weight, using the exhaust to increase the fire draught and building a boiler with a return flue to increase the surface area for heat transfer - all of which were subsequently picked up (and in some cases further improved) in the designs of George and Robert Stephenson. However he died penniless in 1833. His work colleagues had to have a whip round to pay for his funeral!

@TheEdge - your floor for effort!

 

[TheEdge]

Despite Mr Trevithick being a direct blood relative on my mother's side I don't have a question to give so open floor

 

[Gloster]

British Railways/Rail had three locos named Hercules. A rough description of them, i.e. enough to identify them, please.

 

[DerekC]

I am fairly sure I recall that there was an early GWR broad gauge locomotive called Hercules. Maybe an 0-6-0?

 

[Cowley]

Well I’m going to go 50007 and either a Warship or something steam.
Can’t think of anything steam so how about a Warship?

 

[Gloster]

I am fairly sure I recall that there was an early GWR broad gauge locomotive called Hercules. Maybe an 0-6-0?

There were, I think, two broad gauge Hercules; it was a popular name in early days. However, it is nationalisation era locos that I am looking for.

Well I’m going to go 50007 and either a Warship or something steam.
Can’t think of anything steam so how about a Warship?

Correct: Warship D822 and 50007. One left to find. (There is a clue there.)

 

[Cowley]

There were, I think, two broad gauge Hercules; it was a popular name in early days. However, it is nationalisation era locos that I am looking for.

Correct: Warship D822 and 50007. One left to find. (There is a clue there.)

Hmm. Is the clue Number 1?
I’m not sure what locomotive that would be but was there a BR owned narrow gauge loco ironically named Hercules I wonder, maybe somewhere like the Welshpool and Llanfair?

 

[Gloster]

Hmm. Is the clue Number 1?
I’m not sure what locomotive that would be but was there a BR owned narrow gauge loco ironically named Hercules I wonder, maybe somewhere like the Welshpool and Llanfair?

Well, except that it was not narrow gauge you are right. British Railways 1 Hercules was an 0-4-0ST acquired from the Ystalyfera Tin Works in 1948.

For you the Herculean task of setting the next question.