Railway General Knowledge.

[EbbwJunction1]

I think that it was to allow the GWR to build it's London terminus there as well as the L&BR.

 

[DerekC]

Would this be because of the relative feebleness of the steam loco when that device was very new -- making it necessary initially on the L & B, for cable haulage on the incline between Euston, and the point where loco haulage could be switched to (Chalk Farm?) -- the cable set-up requiring more tracks than the loco-hauled one?

Not that, I am afraid.

I think that it was to allow the GWR to build it's London terminus there as well as the L&BR.

That's right. The original GWR Act provided for it to join the L&B route "near Willesden" and from there four tracks, two broad gauge and two narrow gauge, would run to a double station at Euston.

Now if only that had happened, and the LSWR and SER hadn't fallen out with each other over a joint terminus at Charing Cross, and if a link had been built between the two ....

Your floor.

 

[Cowley]

Very interesting Mr Calthrop. Always good to learn new stuff.

 

[EbbwJunction1]

Thank you, DerekC.

Please identify the following:

a. the oldest GWR standard and narrow gauge locos preserved
b. the newest GWR standard and narrow gauge locos preserved

There's one of each, so I'm looking for four locos, please. For the purposes of this question, "GWR" includes constituent and successor companies.

 

[Cowley]

I'm going to have a complete guess at this:

Oldest standard gauge - Taff Vale tank or City of Truro? I'll go for Truro
Newest standard gauge - Pannier 1501?

Oldest narrow gauge - The Earl at Welshpool?
Newest narrow gauge - No 9 at the Vale of Rheidol?

Great question.

 

[DerekC]

I go with Cowley's suggestions on the narrow gauge.

The "Dean Goods" at Swindon will be older than City of Truro, I think. How about that for oldest? (Pity that Swindon scrapped the original "North Star" or there would be no contest).

I guess that "successor companies" means locomotives to GWR designs built after nationalisation. 1501 falls into that category, I think, but there were a number of other classes where the build went on into the 1950s. The outsider I am going to suggest is the gas turbine loco 18000 which was ordered by the GWR, built in the early 1950s and preserved in Vienna. (I recall seeing it belching huge quantities of black smoke at Paddington).

 

[EbbwJunction1]

I'm going to have a complete guess at this:

Oldest standard gauge - Taff Vale tank or City of Truro? I'll go for Truro
Newest standard gauge - Pannier 1501?

Oldest narrow gauge - The Earl at Welshpool?
Newest narrow gauge - No 9 at the Vale of Rheidol?

Great question.

I go with Cowley's suggestions on the narrow gauge.

The "Dean Goods" at Swindon will be older than City of Truro, I think. How about that for oldest? (Pity that Swindon scrapped the original "North Star" or there would be no contest).

I guess that "successor companies" means locomotives to GWR designs built after nationalisation. 1501 falls into that category, I think, but there were a number of other classes where the build went on into the 1950s. The outsider I am going to suggest is the gas turbine loco 18000 which was ordered by the GWR, built in the early 1950s and preserved in Vienna. (I recall seeing it belching huge quantities of black smoke at Paddington).

Thanks for your suggestions.

Before I answer them, though, I'll just say that it's amazing what you find out when you check the answers that you'd prepared for the question - and thought that they were right!

So, to the answers ...
a. the oldest narrow gauge loco is not "The Earl" at Welshpool, although it's not, geographically, very far away!

b. the newest narrow gauge loco is correct, it is No. 9 "Prince of Wales" at the Vale of Rheidol.

c. My original answer for the oldest standard gauge loco was the Taff Vale Tank No. 28, which was built in 1897. However, I've found an older (by quite a way!) loco when checking just now, so I'm taking the liberty of changing my answer! A clue is that this one wasn't built for the GWR and was only bought by the company in 1941; however, she had been on GWR territory (and repaired by the company twice in that time) since 1878. Another clue - she's now at Didcot Railway Centre.

d. DerekC's suggestion of the gas turbine loco 18000 is an interesting one, as I was concentrating on steam locos rather than anything else. However, even if this is included, I'm afraid that it isn't the right answer, as what I believe is correct was built a couple of years after 18000. By the way, 18000 is also now at Didcot Railway Centre, having arrived there in 2011.

So, one out of four ... do my clues help?

 

[Cowley]

Interesting stuff. Without googling it I'm going to try for:

Narrow gauge oldest. Maybe the Corris railway loco at the Talyllyn Railway? I don't know the number and I'm not sure if it went into GWR ownership without looking it up.
Oldest standard gauge. What about that little 0-4-0 Tank 'Trojan '(don't know the number 13??) at Didcot?
Newest standard gauge. Having thought about it 94XX class 9466 (is that at Tysley?) I considered a County for a bit but I was pretty sure it would be a pannier.

 

[EbbwJunction1]

Interesting stuff. Without googling it I'm going to try for:

Narrow gauge oldest. Maybe the Corris railway loco at the Talyllyn Railway? I don't know the number and I'm not sure if it went into GWR ownership without looking it up.
Oldest standard gauge. What about that little 0-4-0 Tank 'Trojan '(don't know the number 13??) at Didcot?
Newest standard gauge. Having thought about it 94XX class 9466 (is that at Tysley?) I considered a County for a bit but I was pretty sure it would be a pannier.

Yes, you've got two out of three here, well done (you've got three out of four, so far!).

The Corris Railway loco is No. 3 "Sir Haydn", which as you say is now on the Talyllyn Railway. The 9400 Class
0-6-0PT No. 9466 seems to be the newest loco, as it was built in 1951.

The oldest standard gauge isn't the 0-4-0 Tank "Trojan". It's the one that's often described (as, indeed, do the GWR Archive, which is where I got this from) as the XXX & YYY Railway No. Y "AAA" or "BBB" (it's had two names) - does this help? (What I'm trying to say is that it's not described as a GWR type, if that makes sense!)

I might not be on here until Saturday morning now, so feel free to guess away!

 

[Cowley]

Well EbbwJunction it got too much for me in the end and I've googled it (took a bit of digging too!)
I wouldn't have got it but I'll be interested to see if anyone else does.

 

[Mvann]

Would it happen to be one of the A1X terriers, as a couple of the class did end up with the GWR

 

[Mvann]

Actually scrap that answer. It's the wantage engine Shannon.

 

[Cowley]

Actually scrap that answer. It's the wantage engine Shannon.

Ah, now this is interesting because I was thinking of a different loco! As I said though I googled it so I'm keeping shtum for now.

 

[EbbwJunction1]

Well EbbwJunction it got too much for me in the end and I've googled it (took a bit of digging too!) I wouldn't have got it but I'll be interested to see if anyone else does.

Would it happen to be one of the A1X terriers, as a couple of the class did end up with the GWR

Actually scrap that answer. It's the wantage engine Shannon.

Ah, now this is interesting because I was thinking of a different loco! As I said though I googled it so I'm keeping shtum for now.

Mvann's got it .... according to the GWR Archive, it's the former Sandy & Potton Railway 0-4-0W No. 5 "Shannon" (also known as "Jane") which was built in 1857. Well done!

Cowley: You have the Vintage Railway Engine, because you got three out of four, but what was your guess, please?

Thanks - I won't be on again until tomorrow morning, so I'll read your answer then!

 

[Cowley]

Mvann's got it .... according to the GWR Archive, it's the former Sandy & Potton Railway 0-4-0W No. 5 "Shannon" (also known as "Jane") which was built in 1857. Well done!

Cowley: You have the Vintage Railway Engine, because you got three out of four, but what was your guess, please?

Thanks - I won't be on again until tomorrow morning, so I'll read your answer then!

Thanks EbbwJ.
The locomotive I found was built in 1878 (obviously not as old as Shannon but still pretty old) and was twice taken into GWR stock before finally being withdrawn in 1941 and eventually being preserved. It is now a static exhibit somewhere in Wales and I’m going to set the details of the loco as the next question.

What was it’s GWR number?
Which companies owned it?
Where is it now?

 

[Mvann]

Well I know where it is now. At a museum in pembrokeshire. Have seen a number of photos of it in steam railway years ago.

 

[Cowley]

Well I know where it is now. At a museum in pembrokeshire. Have seen a number of photos of it in steam railway years ago.

Yes. It’s a bit obscure, but an interesting little engine I think.

 

[Mvann]

Knew it was a manor or hall where it's kept, but can never remember the name

 

[Cowley]

Knew it was a manor or hall where it's kept, but can never remember the name

You’re correct, it’s a manor in Pembrokeshire beginning with ‘S’.
You’re putting it all together here Mvann ...

 

[DerekC]

I recall having been there and seen it about ten years ago, but I wouldn't have got there without the clue from Mvann and a bit of Googling so I won't say more.

 

[EbbwJunction1]

I knew that it was familiar, as it was one of the possibilities for my question.

The location is Scolton Manor, but without Googling it again, I can't remember what it is!

 

[Cowley]

Scolton Manor is the place.
Feel free to google this locomotive and it’s history, if not I’ll post the answers in a couple of hours.

 

[EbbwJunction1]

Thank you.

It's the North Pembroke Railway 0-6-0ST No. 2 (GWR No. 1378), built in 1878. The web site for Scolton Manor doesn't actually mention that the locomotive is there, so I presume that it still is!

Mvann got it first, so I'll yield the old locomotive topic to him!

 

[Cowley]

Thank you.

It's the North Pembroke Railway 0-6-0ST No. 2 (GWR No. 1378), built in 1878. The web site for Scolton Manor doesn't actually mention that the locomotive is there, so I presume that it still is!

Mvann got it first, so I'll yield the old locomotive topic to him!

That’s the one, it was a GWR loco for a while before being sold on to the Gwendraeth Valley line in 1910 and then ending up back on the GWRs books with the 1923 grouping, but was then sold on again this time to the Kidwelly Tinplate Co.
It’s a lovely old engine, here it is (not my photo)...


Over to you Mvann.

 

[Mvann]

Which is the only original broad gauge loco that ran in England that still exists?

 

[A Challenge]

The North Star at STEAM Swindon

 

[Mvann]

No. North Star was scrapped and then rebuilt. Not sure how much is a replica.

 

[Cowley]

‘Tiny’ At Buckfastleigh museum on the South Devon railway?

Edit - I took a photo of it a couple of years ago and here it is (sorry it’s a bit blurry).

 

[Mvann]

Correct

 

[Cowley]

Can’t think of a question so...
Open floor.