Railway driver colourblindness

[Beery]

Has there been any developments in allowing people with red/green colourblindness to have a chance at driving trains just like down in the London underground. I've been trying to read up and keep up to date with any information being released but haven't saw much in a while.

 

[TTDARL]

Some underground lines have ATO (automatic train operation) with on board signalling and self driving systems. Because of this, it is not imperative that the underground train operator needs to be free from any colourblindness as the ATO train effectively self reads the signals and drives itself according to the signals / route. No TOC or FOC in the U.K. has fully ATO routes or trains currently. One example is Thameslink that has ATO capable trains however the railways infrastructure only allows for the train to run ATO through the London core of the Thameslink route. The U.K. railway infrastructure is a long long way behind from this happening in the near future. Check out the RSSB website to see if there are any current studies being done with regard to your enquiry though.

An increasing number of TOCS have or are getting trains with ERTMS (in driving cab signalling systems) but in the event of ERTMS failure, the driver would rely on self reading the signals. (Obviously would need to distinguish signalling colours.) Again the railways infrastructure is behind by many years in terms of having ATO self drive TOC / FOC trains as extensive funding, testing and infrastructure remodelling is required for this.

 

[Beery]

Some underground lines have ATO (automatic train operation) with on board signalling and self driving systems. Because of this, it is not imperative that the underground train operator needs to be free from any colourblindness as the ATO train effectively self reads the signals and drives itself according to the signals / route. No TOC or FOC in the U.K. has fully ATO routes or trains currently. One example is Thameslink that has ATO capable trains however the railways infrastructure only allows for the train to run ATO through the London core of the Thameslink route. The U.K. railway infrastructure is a long long way behind from this happening in the near future. Check out the RSSB website to see if there are any current studies being done with regard to your enquiry though.

An increasing number of TOCS have or are getting trains with ERTMS (in driving cab signalling systems) but in the event of ERTMS failure, the driver would rely on self reading the signals. (Obviously would need to distinguish signalling colours.) Again the railways infrastructure is behind by many years in terms of having ATO self drive TOC / FOC trains as extensive funding, testing and infrastructure remodelling is required for this.

Thanks for the very informative reply, i'll check out the website and see if I can find anything to help answer my question further!

 

[The One]

I know you can still work on the railway with colour blindness but not safety critical work, and I don’t think but don’t quote me on this don’t think you can drive trains with colour blindness due to signal colours but I would defo enquire about it

 

[craigybagel]

This comes up every so often and the answer is sadly a very firm "No" at present. If you can't pass an Isihara test, then you can't work on the National Rail network as a driver (or indeed, as a guard or dispatcher) - and to be honest I don't expect that to ever change.

 

[Gloster]

Even when I took my medical in 1978, when it was fairly basic, the Ishihara test was one thing that was done thoroughly. And I was only going for junior platform staff at the time. I doubt if it has got less strict.

 

[Robcuk]

Don't they accept laser surgery now? I believe they didn't a few years back so times and technology change. Was it the same with hearing aids?

Seems a shame they can't accept it. They allow people who are short sighted to drive (including myself) with glasses, obviously, with the proviso they bring two pairs of glasses. I'm guessing some drivers would struggle to see a signal not alone the indication without there glasses so why wouldn't they allow someone that is colour blind drive providing they wear corrective glasses/lenses.

Or it the current technology just not good enough?

I used to work in the newspaper printing trade and a guy there wore a colour blind corrective lense.

 

[whoosh]

Don't they accept laser surgery now? I believe they didn't a few years back so times and technology change. Was it the same with hearing aids?

Seems a shame they can't accept it. They allow people who are short sighted to drive (including myself) with glasses, obviously, with the proviso they bring two pairs of glasses. I'm guessing some drivers would struggle to see a signal not alone the indication without there glasses so why wouldn't they allow someone that is colour blind drive providing they wear corrective glasses/lenses.

Or it the current technology just not good enough?

I used to work in the newspaper printing trade and a guy there wore a colour blind corrective lense.

Laser eye surgery - they aren't too keen on you having it done, but accept if you've already had it - medical pending.
Even contact lenses are a fairly recent acceptance - within the last 25 years I'd say, maybe even 20. Hearing aids took a long time as well, probably about the same time as contact lenses.
Even varifocals are within the last few years I think. Bifocal only before that.

Sighting signals in different light conditions (bright sunlight, fog, darkness, twilight,), and also acting on them at different distances and often much greater speeds - traffic lights are dealt with on roads at fairly close quarters in comparison, such that you can clearly see which lens is illuminated and stop in time aswell. All that is markedly different to working indoors under consistent light at close quarters printing newspapers with no environmental factors I afraid.

The Jubilee Line is self contained - some other tube lines aren't - and runs entirely with in cab signalling, so this is why a relaxation has taken place there.

Thameslink will have ATO in the Core only, and no regular drivers have been trained on it yet anyway. There are still currently occasions on the National Rail network when handsignallers need to use red, yellow and green handsignals with flags or handlamps depending on time of day, so for the foreseeable future it's a "No" for colourblindness there.

Glasses for short or long sighted can achieve excellent sight with their correction. I am not sure that colour corrective lenses can achieve excellent correction, and imagine they are more of an aid - a help, but not as good as having proper colour vision.

 

[Coach Carter]

Don't they accept laser surgery now? I believe they didn't a few years back so times and technology change. Was it the same with hearing aids?

Seems a shame they can't accept it. They allow people who are short sighted to drive (including myself) with glasses, obviously, with the proviso they bring two pairs of glasses. I'm guessing some drivers would struggle to see a signal not alone the indication without there glasses so why wouldn't they allow someone that is colour blind drive providing they wear corrective glasses/lenses.

Or it the current technology just not good enough?

I used to work in the newspaper printing trade and a guy there wore a colour blind corrective lense.

Been having a bit of a read about the colour blind corrective glasses. Apparently they don’t work for everyone and for those that they do work for it is with varying success. Seems that it’s just not a consistent enough or good enough fix.
I’d imagine with advancing tech that in the end someone will come up with a suitable fix but I can’t see it being for a while and then it’s got to prove it’s self over time before the railway will start to accept it.

 

[hiredgun]

Interesting thread this...
There is a newly qualified driver at my depot who has some ‘space age’ type googles.
He’s red/green colour blind but, I understand, was a traffic cop before hand.

They are like an old WW1 pilots helmet and using some hokus-pokus transform the colours into something his brain can decode.

He has to have two pairs with him at all times but seem to work for him.

Bit cumbersome but I guess if it gets you in ‘the chair’??

Must have had RSSB approval so should open things up to everyone?

Never give up

 

[JModulo]

This comes up every so often and the answer is sadly a very firm "No" at present. If you can't pass an Isihara test, then you can't work on the National Rail network as a driver (or indeed, as a guard or dispatcher) - and to be honest I don't expect that to ever change.

You can't be a fitter either.

 

[Stigy]

You can't be a fitter either.

It’s generally any safety critical job, but interesting reading the post above.

 

[JModulo]

It’s generally any safety critical job, but interesting reading the post above.

Never understood why you aren't able to be a fitter though.

 

[craigybagel]

It’s generally any safety critical job, but interesting reading the post above.

Indeed I'd completely forgotten about that

Never understood why you aren't able to be a fitter though.

I suspect because at least some fitters are required to hold PTS

 

[TTDARL]

Indeed I'd completely forgotten about that

I suspect because at least some fitters are required to hold PTS

Lots of different colours including green and red on a number of traction MCB’s, isolation equipment, fault equipment, safety systems and safety critical traction equipment.

 

[Stigy]

Never understood why you aren't able to be a fitter though.

As has been said, probably due to holding a PTS largely. Also, depot environments have red/green warning lights often controlling crossing points or access to sheds etc.

 

[JModulo]

Lots of different colours including green and red on a number of traction MCB’s, isolation equipment, fault equipment, safety systems and safety critical traction equipment.

Hasn't stopped me from rewiring full buses though.

 

[martin2345uk]

Interesting thread this...
There is a newly qualified driver at my depot who has some ‘space age’ type googles.
He’s red/green colour blind but, I understand, was a traffic cop before hand.

They are like an old WW1 pilots helmet and using some hokus-pokus transform the colours into something his brain can decode.

He has to have two pairs with him at all times but seem to work for him.

Bit cumbersome but I guess if it gets you in ‘the chair’??

Must have had RSSB approval so should open things up to everyone?

Never give up

This is interesting, is this a TOC?

 

[Beery]

Interesting thread this...
There is a newly qualified driver at my depot who has some ‘space age’ type googles.
He’s red/green colour blind but, I understand, was a traffic cop before hand.

They are like an old WW1 pilots helmet and using some hokus-pokus transform the colours into something his brain can decode.

He has to have two pairs with him at all times but seem to work for him.

Bit cumbersome but I guess if it gets you in ‘the chair’??

Must have had RSSB approval so should open things up to everyone?

Never give up

This definitely brings me hope, I’ll have to have a look about to see what these goggles are as I’ve only seen the enchroma glasses so far which don’t have approval as far as I’m aware. But thanks for the info!

 

[Highlandspring]

As has been said, probably due to holding a PTS largely.

You can hold PTS with a colour vision deficiency though.

 

[PupCuff]

Must have had RSSB approval so should open things up to everyone?

Would need to go higher than RSSB - they just set industry standards. Normal colour vision requirement for train drivers is the law, so would need an exemption from the Office of Rail and Road.

There always needs to be a first person to trial everything though and perhaps this could suggest an impending softening of the position.