Railway chemicals

[lyndhurst25]

Summer is here and I'm doing various jobs around the house: weeding the drive, painting the fence, servicing the car. I'm thinking that a lot of the stuff that I'm using is a bit rubbish. The weedkiller kills the weeds but within a few weeks they are growing back. The wood preserver doesn't preserve the wood, even if you apply it every year. The screenwash in my car doesn't shift the dirt and squashed flies.

On the other hand, railway lines only get sprayed with weedkiller very rarely and they remain mostly weed free. Wooden sleepers seem to last for decades out in all weathers. Flat-fronted trains must splat millions of flies in their windscreens and the driver can still see out. What exactly are they using as weedkiller, wood preserver and screenwash? I'm wanting some!

 

[John Webb]

Wood sleepers were pressure-impregnated with creosote - this forced the preservative well into the wood. Domestic surface applications only go a short distance into the wood, hence it is less well protected, besides the applied substance not being so effective as old fashioned creosote anyway! But it is less likely to kill you than creosote.

Re windscreens - on the Up slow platform at St Albans City station they keep a bucket of water (possibly with detergent) and a long handled mop near to the stopping point for most trains - this is frequently in use by drivers in warm weather to give their windscreens an extra clean......

 

[thenorthern]

If I remember correctly its not that they are sprayed with weed kill its the trains running over them constantly many of which are covered in grease and other petroleum based products many of which are harmful to plant life when it gets onto the track. Think of it this way if WD40 stands for Water Displacement 40th attempt and WD40 is mostly petroleum distillate with some other secret ingredients its a similar thing when trains covered in oil are running over the track meaning that its harder for water to stick to things. Also the pollution from the trains doesn't help plant growth.

I am told though with the hopper toilets that empty out onto the track a problem can arise if someone has eaten a tomato as the seeds aren't digested and given human feces is rich in nutrients it can and does cause tomatoes to grow on the track.

Also the trains running over the track constantly as well as passengers walking on the platforms it physically prevents plant life from growing.

When stations and line close however they can very quickly start getting weeds on both the track bed and the platforms. A good example is Silvertown station in East London which closed in 2006 and by 2008 it had reverted to the jungle.

2006
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Silvertown_railway_station_in_2006.jpg

2008
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Silvertown_railway_station_in_2008.jpg

 

[grumblingalong]

No real chemicals are used on windscreens as this can damage the asp(?) anti glare coatings. A brush and water suffice as mentioned above.

 

[Deepgreen]

The annual weed-kill only tackles what is already growing - new seeds will be swept along the track all the time and can germinate almost as soon as the weed-killer has evaporated. Buddlheia is especially good at colonising ballast!

Wooden sleepers are generally made from a particularly hard wood called Jarrah and they are also pressure-treated with creosote/similar, giving them a much-increased life span.

Flies are washed off by hand (mop and bucket at certain stations), by windscreen-wipers plus screen wash, and by train washing facilities.

 

[LexyBoy]

The "good stuff" is generally much more hazardous and as such can't be sold to irresponsible idiots. Many preservatives, pesticides etc will require a license and for the users to have proper training and appropriate PPE.

 

[CyrusWuff]

A bit of Googling reveals a company called Superfine Manufacturing Limited, who sell a wide range of cleaning (and associated) products as used in BR days, including Grimeshifter, Speed Clean 21, Speed Polish 22, Exmover (graffiti remover), Wundergunge and Screenwash.

 

[lyndhurst25]

A bit of Googling reveals a company called Superfine Manufacturing Limited, who sell a wide range of cleaning (and associated) products as used in BR days, including Grimeshifter, Speed Clean 21, Speed Polish 22, Exmover (graffiti remover), Wundergunge and Screenwash.

I'm liking their "Heavy Duty Locomotive Wash". Could be useful for cleaning my cooker and kitchen work surfaces.

Looks like I'll have to get a jarrah fence and soak it in illegally obtained creosote, then remember not to lick it for fear of giving myself a horrible disease. For the windscreen, I'll just use a bucket and mop as suggested (not while driving). As for the weeds, has anyone got a loco that they can park on my drive during the day so that the oil drips kill all the weeds?

 

[thenorthern]

Got to remember as well many of the weedkillers that consumers can buy are suitable for both lawns and paths while to the railways grass is a weed so they want something that can kill that as well. Using Network Rail standard weedkiller on a lawn would kill absolutely everything including the lawn itself.

Also consumer weed kill has to be pet friendly to a certain extent.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

The "good stuff" is generally much more hazardous and as such can't be sold to irresponsible idiots. Many preservatives, pesticides etc will require a license and for the users to have proper training and appropriate PPE.

My first degree is in chemistry so please allow me to comment. This comment above may not be seen as politically correct - but it is correct. The "good stuff" tends to be more effective at killing stuff. The problem is by definition it kills living stuff and so not seen as good for the environment.

To give a slightly OT comment - TBTO- Tri Butyl Tin Oxide was an absolutely fabulous compound for killing barnacles etc. on ship hulls thus not burning as much fuel and thus environmentally friendly. However, it was very efficient at killing Marine life and thus bad and had to be banned. I had access when I was doing my house up in the 1980s and needles to say when I was doing all my skirting boards etc., I dosed the paint with it. I never saw any mould etc. after.

You would not believe how many old timers say to me - I wish they would bring back the old lead paint. It was brilliant - but of course lead is a no-no. So the only people that get away with THE GOOD stuff is ------ THE MILITARY.

 

[thenorthern]

I would think as well the sandite trains would have some although limited effect on killing plant life.

You have to remember as well diesel trains pollute a lot which won't do the plant life any good.

So the only people that get away with THE GOOD stuff is ------ THE MILITARY.

True especially the now infamous 50/50 mixture of 2,4,5-Trichlorophenoxyacetic acid and 2,4-Dichlorophenoxyacetic acid better known as Agent Orange.

 

[jopsuk]

No real chemicals

Clearly they just use imaginary ones

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Fisons train mainly sprayed atrazine and aminotriazole - atrazine was banned ages ago and aminotriazole followed quite recently I think. The rate of spraying was anything from 12lb to 56lb per mile depending on foliage cover, with the intention to have once yearly visits.

I believe Bayer PISTOL is now the herbicide used with the MPV fleet - it's a glyphosate based product and isn't great but it's the strongest herbicide that's out there now for general spraying.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I would think as well the sandite trains would have some although limited effect on killing plant life.

You have to remember as well diesel trains pollute a lot which won't do the plant life any good.



True especially the now infamous 50/50 mixture of 2,4,5-Trichlorophenoxyacetic acid and 2,4-Dichlorophenoxyacetic acid better known as Agent Orange.

Non retention toilet stock fertilises the railway and provides compostible material (and even seeds) though - tomato plants were an issue in some areas, and there have been massive reductions in areas where retention toilets are fitted to the exclusive or almost exclusive traction.

 

[Jamesb1974]

Deleted

 

[Poolie]

Here's how sleepers were treated in 'the good old days

http://player.bfi.org.uk/film/watch-hartlepool-sleeper-depot-1957/#.Vwv9XZZvyL0.facebook

 

[dubscottie]

Yeah thanks to the green brigade most Weedkiller's are banned. Almost all are glyphosphate based but only kill what is growing.

I remember Norwich Crown Point had some issue with the waste water from the washer.

They could not stick it in the drains so had to recycle it. The result was the white stained coaches in the last days of the Mk2's!

Basically being rinsed with a weak solution of what ever the cleaning fluid was. (exmover?)

 

[Trog]

Softwood sleepers were vacuum impregnated with about three gallons of boiling creosote, which is why they will still burn nicely forty years later and when half rotten. Jarrah sleepers contain a natural oil and do not require treatment, it is usual just to seal the end grain.

I remember being told years ago of how the track gangs using back pack sprayers could not be dissuaded from using the week-killer at three times the proper strength. As if they did that they could see the weeds wilting as they walked back at the end of the day, and were thus reassured that they were doing a good job. This would have been with a real weed killer, not the nancy rubbish used today.

At one set of sidings something like the atrazine mentioned above that was intended to be diluted in a tank big enough to swim in and sprayed over miles of track. Was applied by spreading it off a shovel blade by a gang who found some in a store left over from the previous years spraying programme. Apparently it worked a treat, although the local water company were less than impressed when it turned up in the local bore hole.

 

[LexyBoy]

Weedkillers which cause the plants to collapse within hours are not very widely used now - but this is mainly because they just aren't very effective. Stuff like glyphosate is systemic - it is absorbed and spreads throughout the plant, but takes a while to show an effect because it effectively prevents the plant metabolising. Contact herbicides quickly kill tissue they touch, but any weed worth its salt will survive being defoliated.

Many of the soil-based herbicides have been banned because they are (by definition) environmentally persistent, and tend to be quite toxic. In any case, I doubt they'd be too effective on a railway anyway as the ballast will be so free-draining.

True especially the now infamous 50/50 mixture of 2,4,5-Trichlorophenoxyacetic acid and 2,4-Dichlorophenoxyacetic acid better known as Agent Orange.

Actually 2,4-D is still fairly widely used. The toxicity of Agent Orange was due to the large amount of dioxins it contained due to the rough and ready production methods, rather than the herbicide components.

Yeah thanks to the green brigade most Weedkiller's are banned.

Mainly not the "green brigade", but those picky types who kick up a fuss about their water supply being contaminated with toxic and carcinogenic substances.

 

[matchmaker]

Day & Martins metal polish. As used in signal boxes all over the country (or used to be)!

 

[Bromley boy]

No real chemicals are used on windscreens as this can damage the asp(?) anti glare coatings. A brush and water suffice as mentioned above.

I suspect it's the same stuff put into cars? It certainly smells the same.

The wipers on our units are pretty rubbish, far worse than the ones on my car. They do a great job of smudging fly juice and body parts all over the windscreen without actually cleaning it! Hence the bucket/cloth is needed for a proper clean.

 

[Right Away]

There are a couple of good B.R. videos on Youtube highlighting train cleaning and the chemicals used.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l3yj7TGtJl0

It is well worth reading the video descriptions. As an aside there are some other cracking videos there from the same contributor, again well worth reading the descriptions for a giggle.

 

[Jamesb1974]

Deleted

 

[No Fault Found]

On GWR, Autoglym is widely used, not for screenwash but certainly for carriage wash, glass cleaner, carpet cleaner etc.

 

[RJ21]

If you want to have a good read about chemicals found on the railways there is an industry profile which was written by the then Department of the Environment more than 20 years ago but it is still a reference document from the Environment Agency.

 

[thenorthern]

I was buying weed kill today and the first thing I noticed there was lawn save weed kill and non lawn safe weed kill. Network Rail will of course will use the non lawn safe as to them lawns are weeds.

Also many of the consumer brands say keep away from animals but to a certain extent they can't be too strong as people who hadn't read the label would then put it down and then their dog would get ill from it and they would try an sue the manufacturer for the vets fees. Also the neighbors cat may get on the area covered in weed kill and get ill from it and people would start making up petitions named something like "Tom Cat's Law" demanding that high concentrate weed killer gets banned because their adorable free roaming cat was on a selfish neighbor's garden when the neighbor was putting down weedkiller. With Network Rail however their just isn't the problem and if animals get onto the track and ingest the weedkill their spokespeople will just say tough your pet shouldn't be on the rail track.

 

[Supercoss]

Majority of spraying from 'MPV' fleet is done by these nice people...
http://www.jsdrail.com/engineering/mpv-weed-spray-support/4.htm
http://www.jsdrail.com/services/weed-control/1.htm