Railway bridges made from milk cartons

[jopsuk]

and old tyres.

An interesting project. For those too busy to read the above, a military base in the US has had two old wooden railway bridges replaced with new structures made primarily from a composite formed from old tyres and plastic milk bottles. They belive the new structure should have a long lifespan, longer than the ones they replaced- which were 57 years old.

It'll be interesting to see when this sort of thing starts making an appearence on mainline projects. I know there's also been work on making sleepers from the same materials. If done correctly, it should achieve a package that is enviromentally friendly, tough, durable and possibly inhherently vibration damping/noise reducing.

 

[Old Timer]

The embankment on which the Birmingham lines rest between Nuneaton station and the Rocker Bridge over the WCML is constructed of polystyrene blocks.

 

[TheExmoorBeast]

Shhh... The yobbo's will try and set fire to it now you've let the secret out!

 

[Old Timer]

What Nuneaton ?

 

[TheExmoorBeast]

Actually they'd probably do some constructive vandalism.

 

[Dennis]

I know there's also been work on making sleepers from the same materials.

Am interested - do you have a link?

 

[Old Timer]

Hopefully this link will help ?

http://www.wrap.org.uk/downloads/27...te_Rail_Sleepers_-_May_2006.41c60603.5137.pdf

 

[mumrar]

Also on the old West Suburban, as the Kings Norton-New St line is known, where they're diverting the canal and putting a road under the canal and railway I saw a big load of wire bound car tyres. I'm guessing this has been used for new bridge embankments on the canal? It was easy to see from the trains a couple of months ago.

 

[Dennis]

Hopefully this link will help ?

http://www.wrap.org.uk/downloads/27...te_Rail_Sleepers_-_May_2006.41c60603.5137.pdf

Thanks for that; you wouldn't happen to know if NR are investigating using these materials?

 

[GingerSte]

Hopefully this link will help ?

http://www.wrap.org.uk/downloads/27...te_Rail_Sleepers_-_May_2006.41c60603.5137.pdf

Thanks for the link. I found it very interesting and do like the idea of using waste plastic and rubber for sleepers. I always like the "kill two birds with one stone" ideas. Even if these were to be reinforced (probably fibre-type reinforcement rather than steel rebar), they would still lend themselves well to mass production.

However, the article is a little vague on the engineering for me. How does it compare to concrete and timber sleepers under load? What fatigue life does it have? Are there any problems with leaching? Would there be any problems if oil/diesil/any other chemical were spilt on it? I hope that some university is looking at this, and trying to iron out any problems.

 

[Old Timer]

You could try looking at these Company websites.

You could also contact them. US Railway suppliers are normally extremely helpful in my experience.
http://www.polywood.com/

http://www.itsrailroadrubber.com/

http://www.permaties.com/

http://www.tietek.com/

http://www.dynamic-cci.com/

http://www.axionintl.com/

http://www.integrico.com/

http://www.hansentie.com/

http://www.plasticties.com/

 

[moggie]

Rubber sleepers - :I wonder how they'll keep the class 14x from take off?

 

[Old Timer]

Thanks for that; you wouldn't happen to know if NR are investigating using these materials?

It does not pay to be innovative with Network Rail. Just look at the Jarvis Rail experience.

Many of Network Rail's "engineers" are unable to assess engineering risk and will always say NO to anything "new".

Jarvis Rail spent much money on innovations such as the TRT. Mole, Slinger train, Sleeper Discharge Train.

It was also developing "Modular" S&C replacement techniques long before Network Rail even understood what the word meant.

Jarvis Rail could relay 3.5km of track in a weekend shift, all welded up and back at 50 mph, unfortunately this could not be appreciated for what it was and NR were quite happy to return to struggling with 400m unwelded relays whereas we were easily delivering 1000m welded in the same timescales.

Jarvis Rail is of course no more and all this equipment is in effect rusting away, primarily because NR "engineers" are not prepared to move on with innovation.

 

[Trog]

Thanks for that; you wouldn't happen to know if NR are investigating using these materials?

Someone I knew at HQ in Euston told me that they were investigating these, he seemed quite keen on the idea. He has since retired, and I have heard nothing more, but that may just be due to the loss of my contact.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Jarvis Rail could relay 3.5km of track in a weekend shift, all welded up and back at 50 mph, unfortunately this could not be appreciated for what it was and NR were quite happy to return to struggling with 400m unwelded relays whereas we were easily delivering 1000m welded in the same timescales.

The thing that always puzzled me was why they always left little piles of smashed up drainage materials every 60'-0" down the cess. Was it some sort of offering to the God of wetspots, so they would not run out of work in the future?

 

[Mvann]

I e-mailed the article to our civil engineer on the Nvr. He said as we use steam locos, would the bridge melt if sparks or ash fell on it?

 

[Old Timer]

The thing that always puzzled me was why they always left little piles of smashed up drainage materials every 60'-0" down the cess. Was it some sort of offering to the God of wetspots, so they would not run out of work in the future?

Why bother with drainage when Network Rail have no interest in it ?

In many cases we were told not to worry about drainage, just get the production figures. Well, you guys are the Client, I am just the Contractor. Mine not to reason why at risk of losing the Contract.

It has not been the first time I have been instructed to relay into water sitting at sleeper bottom level on a high speed line. On one occasion they even instructed me to lay in a sand blanket even though we had trial holes to show that there was water below the sleeper.

As we excavated, we were throwing water and ballast into the wagons and the dig looked like a swimming pool.

I choose to cancel the sand, and got criticised for it !

 

[Trog]

Have you ever ballast cleaned with the cutter bar under water? You have never seen such a mess, the PABC looked like it had been behind a herd of cows that had overdosed on dodgy curry.

 

[Old Timer]

Not experienced that one !

Not Cheddington end of the Tring Cutting by the former cement sidings by any chance ?

 

[Trog]

No this was on the Midland Mainline at Red Road bridge. The job was planned as a clay dig but we were short of I think Mermaid wagons. So muggins was sent out with the local relay gang to dig some trial holes, to see if it would ballast clean instead. We did the holes and they were running with clay slurry, so I went back to the office and said no it's got to be a clay dig.

Ohh they said we changed it to a ballast clean while you were out there, how about if we give you some more spoil wagons and you cut 24". So thats how I ended up spending a Saturday night standing on the runner wagon of an RM62, constantly moving the spoil train up as we filled each wagon. While clay slurry off the spoil conveyer drizzeled down on me, and flowed over and dripped off the surfaces of the machine.

The things we did for the love of BR.

 

[Ploughman]

I can't remember the amount of times I have been out on a renewal dig. When I ended up digging a canal instead.
Strensall and Morley tunnel spring to mind.
All because the local PW maintenance teams had not maintained the drainage.
The water was flowing over the top of the catchpits before we started and it hadn't rained for about a month before.

 

[Old Timer]

I can't remember the amount of times I have been out on a renewal dig. When I ended up digging a canal instead.
Strensall and Morley tunnel spring to mind.
All because the local PW maintenance teams had not maintained the drainage.
The water was flowing over the top of the catchpits before we started and it hadn't rained for about a month before.

Network Rail do not believe in drainage.

Their "engineers" do not understand the fundamentals of railway track engineering, thus there is no budget for drainage, and its not "sexy".

It has taken them a long time, and various bank slips to understand that cuttings and embankments need love and attention too.

Track drainage appears to be beyond them at this stage. :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[cyclebytrain]

The sleeper pdf is really interesting; if I read it right they seem to be essentially GFRP with a recycled polymer as the matrix. If I'm right (actually, given the rest of my day today, that's unlikely...) I think those sleepers will have very good tensile properties across the sleeper without them needing to use any glass fibres at 90. Which is really rather clever and I think would require a recycled matrix to do it.

The only downside I can see is that it would be difficult to put a residual stress in the sleeper -although I don't know if there is a direction where that would help (Any thoughts?).

There are three things that aren't mentioned that I find curious:

No mention of adhesives as opposed to fasteners (most industries that use composites try to use adhesives where possible). I just don't get that.

No suggestions about embedding sensors (strain gauges etc.) to make intelligent structures (I would have thought that would be a truly useful benefit, being able to know the loads that had occurred on the sleeper, weather conditions it had been exposed to, time/date of occurrence etc. Might easily discover something interesting with that sort of data)

They also don't mention as a possible future advantage (and this one is strictly future, but I would have thought when you're trying to big up a process you would list all the possible advantages as well as the definite ones) of making a healing composite. They are all the range in composites research these days.

But really interesting none the less. I hardly ever come across recycled composites and I'm really grateful for this thread which has given me some unusual and interesting things to think about!

 

[Old Timer]

There is no need for any stress within the sleeper. Stress is only introduced into concrete sleepers as concrete has strength in compression.

Rails and rail fixings would not be bonded to the sleepers, therefore there is no requirement for any adhesive/bonding substance.

There is no requirement for any intelligent monitoring as sleepers are designed to maintain the track gauge and to spread the contact load across the ballast formation.

 

[cyclebytrain]

Thanks for your answers Old Timer, but I'm afraid they've caused some more questions from me...

First let me explain what I meant a bit more about residual stress: in almost any fibre reinforce polymer (except axi anti symmetric) there is a residual stress. You can't get rid of it, so the current fashion is to design it in in the most "useful" direction (which is often where it will be substantially countered by the typical load). I don't think they will be able to tailor the residual stress in the "normal" manner in this composite so I was wondering if there was a direction where it would have been useful (hopefully that makes more sense). If there isn't, then it doesn't matter at all.

Why wouldn't you bond them though? That's what I can't see. You get to get rid of nasty pin joints, removing the stress concentration -so the sleeper will last longer or can be smaller and lighter. Surely it's just another advantage of a composite sleeper? What am I missing here?

For intelligent sleepers, wouldn't you like to know if one sleeper was taking far more load than its neighbours? Surely the more information you have the better you can do maintenance.

 

[jopsuk]

The main reason I can think not to bond is that rails generally require replacement more than sleepers do, don't they? For all that bonding is marvellous (and potentially much stronger than many would think), the current ways of fixing rails to sleepers are reversible without damaging the sleeper- which is a desirable property.

 

[Trog]

I thought the plan was for the sleepers to be produced as a single 10" x 5" x 8'-6" lump. Then to treat it as if it was timber and fix the baseplates or chairs with chair screws. That way you get a single universal replacement for the softwood sleeper. Rather than needing loads of different designs for different rail sections and gauges, with the expense of replacing the existing fittings.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

The embankment on which the Birmingham lines rest between Nuneaton station and the Rocker Bridge over the WCML is constructed of polystyrene blocks.

This might be what you're referring to, Fillmaster polystyrene blocks :- (click to enlarge)


Manufacturer's spec here:-
http://www.vencel.co.uk/products/civil/design.htm
Found this on another forum.

Lightweight and easy to handle on site. Approximately 1% of the weight of traditional fill materials.

. . .
Protection
The Fillmaster should be protected from possible accidental contact with petroleum or solvents using a suitable polymer barrier, where necessary.

Fill or capping layer
The final fill should be placed over the Fillmaster blocks taking care not to puncture any membrane.

And we all know what happens to polystyrene when in comes in contact with solvents such as petrol - odd to put it under motor vehicles, then - and that polystyrene is lighter than water - odd to use it to support roads over wet land, then.
But then, I'm no civil engineer!

 

[Dennis]

The sleeper pdf is really interesting; if I read it right they seem to be essentially GFRP with a recycled polymer as the matrix. If I'm right (actually, given the rest of my day today, that's unlikely...) I think those sleepers will have very good tensile properties across the sleeper without them needing to use any glass fibres at 90. Which is really rather clever and I think would require a recycled matrix to do it.

The document is not categorically stating the use of fibre reinforcement although given the low modulus and bending stiffness of polyolefins, it would make sense to include it.

Part of the production process uses extrusion (presumbly to mix and form the basic shape before finishing by moulding). Extrusion, by its nature, will introduce orientation into any fibre fillers. This would have the effect of increasing the tensile strength (assuming the fibres bond to the matrix) and stiffness in the required direction.

Although extrusion tends to result in orientation and 'frozen in strain', these parts are so large that cooling will inherently be slow, relieving any residual stress.

A solution to the problem of low bending stiffness of polyolefins would be the incorporation of steel reinforcement, like in these sleepers. Using steel for the reinforcement would allow filling of the plastic with cheap rubbish like tyre chips.

 

[cyclebytrain]

It mentions fibreglass as a "reinforcement agent" I read that as saying the sleepers are GFRP. I am really not very familiar with extruding composites, but I don't see why extruding would preclude a 90 orientation on this sort of scale. I can't imagine you'd draw fibres straight out into the extrusion.

Thanks Trog for pointing out the installation difficulties of using an adhesive. I had not considered that -and there's no time to leave it cure either. It makes perfect sense now you've pointed that out to me!

 

[Ploughman]

This might be what you're referring to, Fillmaster polystyrene blocks :- (click to enlarge)
View attachment 2813

A number of years back wasn't the embankment at Irlam on the Liverpool - Manchester replaced with these type of blocks?