RailUK Forums First Class Obsession?

[DarloRich]

The question is: Why is this board and many of its members obsessed with first class travel?

My view is that many of the posters here lack the maturity and emotional intelligence to understand that first class travel, especially discounted first class travel, is a privilege and not the norm. Because they travel first class on a regular basis they lack exposure to and fail to understand the realities of life for the majority of railway passengers in this country.

Discuss

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Why is this board and many of its members obsessed with first class travel?
... Discuss

Tricky one, many find this confusing.

"Board" being a collective noun, it requires a singular verb whilst "many of its members" (the subject in apposition) would normally call for a plural verb.
I believe the correct solution is for "board" to take preference here and to use a singular verb as has been done.



PS If a see a good offer on 1st Advance, I often take it because I like the extra room and slightly more comfotable seats (though it doesn't always work out - Virgin EC, when are you going to fix some of the knackered HST seats in 1st?)

 

[DarloRich]

Tricky one, many find this confusing.

"Board" being a collective noun, it requires a singular verb whilst "many of its members" (the subject in apposition) would normally call for a plural verb.
I believe the correct solution is for "board" to take preference here and to use a singular verb as has been done.



PS If a see a good offer on 1st Advance, I often take it because I like the extra room and slightly more comfotable seats (though it doesn't always work out - Virgin EC, when are you going to fix some of the knackered HST seats in 1st?)

I will happily take a cheap advance in first class I just don't often have the opportunity to book far enough in advance to make it possible. Sadly work and family life doesn't offer such easy predictability

 

[Butts]

The question is: Why is this board and many of its members obsessed with first class travel?

My view is that many of the posters here lack the maturity and emotional intelligence to understand that first class travel, especially discounted first class travel, is a privilege and not the norm. Because they travel first class on a regular basis they lack exposure to and fail to understand the realities of life for the majority of railway passengers in this country.

Discuss

I would say you are obsessed with people who travel 1st Class - since you moved from "Barbarian" Darlington to the relative "Civilisation" of Milton Keynes (demo of lack of maturity and emotional intelligence)

Seriously when I had a Railcard some of the trips I experienced were phenomenal value for money considering the level of comfort and perks associated with 1st Class Travel. I'm talking East Coast and West Coast.

Empty carriages with a 4 to yourself was wonderful. I always used to choose a service that would normally be lightly loaded. As you may have guessed most of these excursions were leisure related.

I used to get trips from Falkirk to the great Northern Cities (even Darlington ) for about £12 to £20 each way. Often I would neck more in Scotch than the value of my fare.

On a few occasions I had to share on a busy train, which was an anethema after so many wonderful experiences in uncluttered surrroundings. However I was not naive enough to not appreciate that this set of circumstances was the norm.

For people paying "hundreds" the catering is pathetic and often the level of service experienced falls far short of the projected exclusive journey. The only saving grace of a busy service is thinking that you have paid a fraction of the price of those travelling with you, indeed less than a lot in "cattle" as well.

I will still travel 1st Class but only on the lowest available fare. Despite this I will expect plenty of "Scotch Runs". Unfortunately there are a lot of fellow "freeloaders" out there

 

[TheNewNo2]

Never seen an obsession with first class besides your own obsession with VWC's.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There are some threads that I approach with not a little amount of trepidation for fear of being labelled "snobbish", but irrespective of the availability of any cheap advance tickets, my good lady wife and I always make first class de rigeur when available at the correct cost of same.

That is why you have seen me quite happy in past postings on this website that First TPE actually offer this facility in their Class 185 units (I never use the Class 170 ones) and my oft-expressed annoyance that from Wilmslow to Shrewsbury, Ludlow and Hereford, Arriva Cymru in their Class 175 units do not.

 

[47513 Severn]

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking but this is a forum largely populated by railway enthusiasts. By nature that means a degree of obsessiveness is par for the course, witness how the same subjects come up over and over again.

That said, discussion of first class travel, even if it is based on personal experience, is just that - discussion. We discuss lots of things on here, that's kind of the point. I think you are looking a bit too deeply to see some kind of snobbishness. I noticed in the recent discussion of the steel industry closures that you seemed to dismiss anyone who did not agree with government intervention (even when they presented reasoned arguments) as obviously being rich southern tory scum bankers who hate the poor and know nothing about 'real' people. Do you view anyone travelling first class the same way?

Maturity and emotional intelligence are required to understand and respect that different people have different views and values.

47513

 

[DarloRich]

I would say you are obsessed with people who travel 1st Class - since you moved from "Barbarian" Darlington to the relative "Civilisation" of Milton Keynes (demo of lack of maturity and emotional intelligence)

That may well be true - I make no claim to otherwise - but does show a practicality: I needed work!

Seriously when I had a Railcard some of the trips I experienced were phenomenal value for money considering the level of comfort and perks associated with 1st Class Travel. I'm talking East Coast and West Coast.

Empty carriages with a 4 to yourself was wonderful. I always used to choose a service that would normally be lightly loaded. As you may have guessed most of these excursions were leisure related.

I used to get trips from Falkirk to the great Northern Cities (even Darlington ) for about £12 to £20 each way. Often I would neck more in Scotch than the value of my fare.

On a few occasions I had to share on a busy train, which was an anethema after so many wonderful experiences in uncluttered surrroundings. However I was not naive enough to not appreciate that this set of circumstances was the norm.

For people paying "hundreds" the catering is pathetic and often the level of service experienced falls far short of the projected exclusive journey. The only saving grace of a busy service is thinking that you have paid a fraction of the price of those travelling with you, indeed less than a lot in "cattle" as well.

I will still travel 1st Class but only on the lowest available fare. Despite this I will expect plenty of "Scotch Runs". Unfortunately there are a lot of fellow "freeloaders" out there

Like i said if i can get a cheap first advance i will take it. Sadly it doesn't often happen for various reasons. That means my travel is in second class and it is infuriating to see people complaining about problems with free food and drink when the same drink or sandwich costs most of us considerably more.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Never seen an obsession with first class besides your own obsession with VWC's.

eh? I haven't got an obsession with VWC. Other than geography makes their services the most regular intercity services i use.

 

[Butts]

There are some threads that I approach with not a little amount of trepidation for fear of being labelled "snobbish", but irrespective of the availability of any cheap advance tickets, my good lady wife and I always make first class de rigeur when available at the correct cost of same.

That is why you have seen me quite happy in past postings on this website that First TPE actually offer this facility in their Class 185 units (I never use the Class 170 ones) and my oft-expressed annoyance that from Wilmslow to Shrewsbury, Ludlow and Hereford, Arriva Cymru in their Class 175 units do not.

Don't worry about it Paul, "darlorich" is attempting to maintain some of his "Northern Street Cred" (despite residing in Buckinghamshire) by lambasting those who like a bit of pampering in 1st Class - even oiks like me

 

[DarloRich]

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking but this is a forum largely populated by railway enthusiasts. By nature that means a degree of obsessiveness is par for the course, witness how the same subjects come up over and over again.

That said, discussion of first class travel, even if it is based on personal experience, is just that - discussion. We discuss lots of things on here, that's kind of the point. I think you are looking a bit too deeply to see some kind of snobbishness. I noticed in the recent discussion of the steel industry closures that you seemed to dismiss anyone who did not agree with government intervention (even when they presented reasoned arguments) as obviously being rich southern tory scum bankers who hate the poor and know nothing about 'real' people. Do you view anyone travelling first class the same way?

Maturity and emotional intelligence are required to understand and respect that different people have different views and values.

47513

Don't be so silly. :roll:

I certainly make no suggestion of snobbishness or suchlike. I simply state that some ( many) posters here think that first class travel is the norm. They fail to understand it is not. Perhaps doubly so when subsided via a railcard, child ticket or family funding. I think that leads to a lack of connection with the real world.

PS also please point to where i have used this phrase: rich southern tory scum bankers who hate the poor and know nothing about 'real' people if not please append your apology.

 

[Butts]

PS also please point to where i have used this phrase: rich southern tory scum bankers who hate the poor and know nothing about 'real' people

I heard that's how you describe your southern neighbours

 

[Tetchytyke]

Like i said if i can get a cheap first advance i will take it. Sadly it doesn't often happen for various reasons. That means my travel is in second class and it is infuriating to see people complaining about problems with free food and drink when the same drink or sandwich costs most of us considerably more

I think it depends what you're meaning.

People who are complaining that you only get one sausage with a VTEC complimentary breakfast are being a little bit OTT.

I often travel first class and will pay quite a bit extra for it. I'm paying that on the understanding I'll receive a 1st class service. It grates when that service isn't forthcoming, when the crew act as though every slice of toast or glass of wine is directly coming out of their wages or when the crew sit and gossip rather than serving passengers.

It's slightly different with the quality of the food in the standard buffet car. You've not already paid for it (yes, I know it is "complimentary" but it is an advertised benefit of 1st class and I consider it paid for). If you don't like it you don't buy it.

As for "understanding the realities of life", I spent two years commuting with the execrable London Midland. I know suffering

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's slightly different with the quality of the food in the standard buffet car. You've not already paid for it (yes, I know it is "complimentary" but it is an advertised benefit of 1st class and I consider it paid for).

As do I. I don't believe TOCs should be able to get away with calling something "complimentary" then not providing it. Something is either free (to anyone who wants it, including non-passengers), or it is paid for as part of the package. I apply that to any industry.

 

[cambsy]

Travelled recently from Glasgow to London with an Advance first class ticket bought between 7 and 14 days in advance, on the 16.40 Glasgow Central to Euston, which cost me £55.00 where the standard advance was £46.00 so obviously took the first class option especially as it was a evening meal train, and on Wednesday 2nd December am doing Euston-Glasgow return for £133.00 first class advance, £78.00 out and £55.00 which though not cheap as such is pretty much same as i would pay if bought off peak ticket.

I would not pay the full first class fare as it is extortionate in price, most of my travels are standard class, which i find perfectly pleasant but sometimes it is nice to enjoy first class and why not with some of the advance first class fares around.

 

[ainsworth74]

My feeling is if that discussion of first class annoys someone to a great extent that they might be better off ignoring such threads rather than getting worked up about it.

As for an obsession on this forum? I don't think there is one it is just that first class discussion is probably more visible because it usually is something a bit extra. People are going to want to know what they might be getting (as it does vary quite considerably by TOC) which isn't really an issue in standard class as they only real variance is power sockets yes/no and wi-fi yes/no.

I would also note that discussion of standard class often occurs in existing threads rather than separate threads. A lot of rolling stock threads will have discussion around seat comfort (perhaps I should start a thread asking if RailUK is obsessed with seat comfort ) and other provisions for standard class passengers (see the Class 800 thread and others for discussions about provisions of trolleys and buffets on those new trains).

As for 'lacking in emotional maturity to understand the vast majority of passengers' I suggest that perhaps making judgements on fellow members on the basis of one characteristic is unwise as it's impossible to know the full circumstances of someone's life and how much exposure they might have to to life's 'realities'.

 

[D6975]

I normally travel second class, sorry standard class, mainly because I do most of my travel on rovers and rangers. To get to the area of said tickets I do sometimes travel first class if the price is right. Travelling peak hours FC is out of the question for me, just too expensive, but off peak advance FCs can be only £10 to £20 more than a standard advance sometimes, so are excellent value if there's grub and drinks thrown in. I accept that I'm only getting it cheap because I'm travelling at times when FC is relatively empty. I don't expect it always to be an option.

ps If you're doing a FC journey that involves Paddington, make sure you visit the FC lounge there. It really is very good.

 

[talltim]

I've never traveled first class

 

[Iskra]

The question is: Why is this board and many of its members obsessed with first class travel?

My view is that many of the posters here lack the maturity and emotional intelligence to understand that first class travel, especially discounted first class travel, is a privilege and not the norm. Because they travel first class on a regular basis they lack exposure to and fail to understand the realities of life for the majority of railway passengers in this country.

Discuss

I only travel 1st class if I get it cheap on an advance, with my railcard and it's actually worthwhile (1st on some operators isn't worth bothering with)

You're forgetting that most trains in this country don't have 1st class, so I doubt that many people haven't experienced standard class (which is perfectly adequate most of the time anyway). Even if you book a 1st class journey you can often end up getting a local connecting service in your itinerary.

I doubt there are many (if any) posters on here who can afford to travel exclusively in 1st class, especially if that involves walk-up fares.

Also, on this forum, we are probably the experts among the population when it comes to finding cheap 1st class fares, so we probably travel 1st more than someone of a similar income who isn't an enthusiast. Also, when I book my long distance bashing trips I tend to find some good 1st class fares and then build the rest of my trip around those. Also, if you live on a line where there is a lot of unused capacity in 1st at certain times of the day, then you can afford to travel in 1st more often than someone who doesn't have that luxury. Additionally, we're all quite delay repay savvy on here, which funds some of my 1st class trips

 

[DarloRich]

I only travel 1st class if I get it cheap on an advance, with my railcard and it's actually worthwhile (1st on some operators isn't worth bothering with)

The railcard discounts one of the issues - it insulates you from the true cost of travel. I, and others, find it infuriating to see people complain about their railcard subsided first class travel experience when it is much better than the non subsided travel offered in second class. It is that lack of understanding that grates.

You're forgetting that most trains in this country don't have 1st class, so I doubt that many people haven't experienced standard class (which is perfectly adequate most of the time anyway). Even if you book a 1st class journey you can often end up getting a local connecting service in your itinerary.

The journeys i make all have first class. I cant book in advance like many of you so such luxury is effectively prohibited. i often have 24 - 48 hours notice that I am free to travel. This week is a luxuary. I have taken Friday off so have 72 hours notice to book and can avoid peak times. Hell i might even get a first class advance!

Odd we don't have the same threads about standard of second class service, about quiet crockery or quiet zones, about second class waiting rooms etc etc etc.

Also, on this forum, we are probably the experts among the population when it comes to finding cheap 1st class fares, so we probably travel 1st more than someone of a similar income who isn't an enthusiast. Also, when I book my long distance bashing trips I tend to find some good 1st class fares and then build the rest of my trip around those. Also, if you live on a line where there is a lot of unused capacity in 1st at certain times of the day, then you can afford to travel in 1st more often than someone who doesn't have that luxury. Additionally, we're all quite delay repay savvy on here, which funds some of my 1st class trips

You may have the luxury of flexibility to find the best fares. I and others don't. We have jobs that mean we have little free time or families to look after or we are either too old or too young to qualify for railcards.

I have nothing against first class travel at all - just that many posters here are detached, for various reasons, from the real world and the costs of travel in the real world.

posts about how bad the service is on a dirt cheap railcard subsidised advance makes you look spoilt and silly.

 

[185143]

I only travel first class at weekend and only then on TPE (As I am a season ticket holder and its free) and VT on longer journeys as my days of the upgrade only being £5 are dwindling fast!

 

[tbtc]

I think it depends what you're meaning.

People who are complaining that you only get one sausage with a VTEC complimentary breakfast are being a little bit OTT

It does feel like there are a couple of posters on here who could express outrage along the lines of "I boarded the First Class carriage at Waverley and they'd not come round with my complimentary alcohol/ meal until the train had nearly left Haymarket" straight faced, with no irony...

...or "I bought a £10 ticket to travel a hundred miles and only got £9 worth of alcohol"...

The question is: Why is this board and many of its members obsessed with first class travel?

My view is that many of the posters here lack the maturity and emotional intelligence to understand that first class travel, especially discounted first class travel, is a privilege and not the norm. Because they travel first class on a regular basis they lack exposure to and fail to understand the realities of life for the majority of railway passengers in this country.

Discuss

I think that there are some people who walk the narrow line between gadabout (enjoying the perks of First Class, swanning about the country) and gadfly (irritant; eager to remind people about their swanky experiences or to moan about minor inconveniences that others wouldn't write home about).

Generally on here it seems to be those of Student or Pensioner age, who have the time/ freedom (and perhaps the lack of perspective that you speak of?) - good to them but it's a bit like the boasts/moans about experiences with ALRs - it's of little relevance to normal passenger experiences so I generally don't bother reading.

There seems to have been a lot of froth about First Class in recent months, disproportionate to the amount of people using it, but then I could say that the amount of focus on certain stations on here vastly outweighs their actual usage.

As I say, I tend to avoid such threads, but the boasts/ moans have a habit of creeping into other threads - e.g. people moaning on GWML upgrades that the amended HSTs (and move to IEPs) will remove their God-given-right to swank down to Cornwall and back in First Class for the price of a pub meal. Can be amusing to see the toys well and truly out of the pram though...

 

[Iskra]

The railcard discounts one of the issues - it insulates you from the true cost of travel. I, and others, find it infuriating to see people complain about their railcard subsided first class travel experience when it is much better than the non subsided travel offered in second class. It is that lack of understanding that grates.



The journeys i make all have first class. I cant book in advance like many of you so such luxury is effectively prohibited. i often have 24 - 48 hours notice that I am free to travel. This week is a luxuary. I have taken Friday off so have 72 hours notice to book and can avoid peak times. Hell i might even get a first class advance!

Odd we don't have the same threads about standard of second class service, about quiet crockery or quiet zones, about second class waiting rooms etc etc etc.




We have jobs that mean we have little free time or families to look after or we are either too old or too young to qualify for railcards.

I have nothing against first class travel at all - just that many posters here are detached, for various reasons, from the real world and the costs of travel in the real world.

posts about how bad the service is on a dirt cheap railcard subsidised advance makes you look spoilt and silly.

- People paid money for their railcards. They are designed to encourage travel for people who would not normally use the railway.

- It sounds like you're quite bitter about your lack of flexibility, more than anything else. I think you need to remember that people have probably worked quite hard to get themselves into a position (either a job, or retired) where they can be flexible enough to buy 1st advance tickets way in advance. And I still have a job, commitments, family etc, hence why I don't always travel in 1st.

- There are loads of threads complaining about standard class quiet zones not being enforced, or seat reservations not being honoured, or short formed sets etc.

- I've complained on here about bad 1st experiences on here. Not stuff like, being served one less mushroom than the photo shows, but usually rude staff, staff who sit down rather than do their jobs. You'd complain about that if it happened in any other walk of life.

'You may have the luxury of flexibility to find the best fares. I and others don't.'

That's the crux of it for me here, and you're the only person who can do something about your personal situation.

 

[crehld]

The question is: Why is this board and many of its members obsessed with first class travel?

My view is that many of the posters here lack the maturity and emotional intelligence to understand that first class travel, especially discounted first class travel, is a privilege and not the norm. Because they travel first class on a regular basis they lack exposure to and fail to understand the realities of life for the majority of railway passengers in this country.

Discuss

It's a forum aimed at those interested in the railways and railway travel, of which first class is a component. I would find it rather surprising if first class was not discussed!

Perhaps some people do get too emotional about it all (I'm no doubt guilty of it). For the majority of those who complain however I think the issue is one of expectations. I make an informed decision on all my purchases. I part with my hard earned cash knowing I am to receive a product or service which meets certain criteria. When those criteria are not met I have grounds for complaint.

The wider discussions on disparities in first class service probably emanate from the fact there isn't a common standard for what constitutes 'first class' across the railway industry; I pay for first class on one train and I'm treated to a seat and a three course meal; I pay for first class on another and I presented with a standard class seat in a standard class coach with only a antimacassar to differentiate between classes.

The railcard discounts one of the issues - it insulates you from the true cost of travel. I, and others, find it infuriating to see people complain about their railcard subsided first class travel experience when it is much better than the non subsided travel offered in second class. It is that lack of understanding that grates.

Surely the true cost of travel is what one pays for it? It sounds like you're getting needlessly worked up (dare I say "lack[ing] the maturity and emotional intelligence"? ) at forum posters who have secured a good deal, whereas the real focus of your objection would be better focused on the railway industry and its regulators who offer such discounts and schemes, and therefore permit such price differentials to occur in the first place.

Odd we don't have the same threads about standard of second class service, about quiet crockery or quiet zones, about second class waiting rooms etc etc etc.

Am I missing something? There are plenty of complaints on this forum about standard/second class travel! (Along with the usual dismissive replies)

You may have the luxury of flexibility to find the best fares. I and others don't. We have jobs that mean we have little free time or families to look after or we are either too old or too young to qualify for railcards.

If people have the foresight to book in advance or find themselves in a position in life to have lots of free time to enjoy themselves, then good for them!

Speaking for myself, I have a full time job, a wife and baby to look after and spend time with and I no longer qualify for a railcard (well except for my Dales railcard, but that doesn't get you very far), yet I am still capable of organizing my time effectively to book travel (for leisure or work) far enough in advance to ensure I get a cheap fare (with the odd impromptu jaunt if I'm feeling spontaneous).

 

[DarloRich]

- People paid money for their railcards.

mine were free via the good people at the Student Union and Midland Bank/Nat Wets Bank ( if you opened an account). Even if you did pay after one journey they are in profit and receiving subsidised train travel.

It sounds like you're quite bitter about your lack of flexibility, more than anything else. I think you need to remember that people have probably worked quite hard to get themselves into a position (either a job, or retired) where they can be flexible enough to buy 1st advance tickets way in advance. And I still have a job, commitments, family etc, hence why I don't always travel in 1st.

I am not bitter. I am realistic about having to have a job and live in the real world! It is also a job i quite like. Although no matter how hard I work I will never be able to afford first class travel AND pay all my bills.

[

B]'You may have the luxury of flexibility to find the best fares. I and others don't.'[/B]

That's the crux of it for me here, and you're the only person who can do something about your personal situation.

Odd that it is the person complaining who must change.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It's a forum aimed at those interested in the railways and railway travel, of which first class is a component. I would find it rather surprising if first class was not discussed!

Those discussions are out of kilter with the numbers travelling in FC compared to the numbers travelling in second class

The wider discussions on disparities in first class service probably emanate from the fact there isn't a common standard for what constitutes 'first class' across the railway industry; I pay for first class on one train and I'm treated to a seat and a three course meal; I pay for first class on another and I presented with a standard class seat in a standard class coach with only a antimacassar to differentiate between classes.

I agree there is a wide difference in the quality offered in FC on various operators. However that difference is just as wide in second class

Surely the true cost of travel is what one pays for it? It sounds like you're getting needlessly worked up (dare I say "lack[ing] the maturity and emotional intelligence"? ) at forum posters who have secured a good deal, whereas the real focus of your objection would be better focused on the railway industry and its regulators who offer such discounts and schemes, and therefore permit such price differentials to occur in the first place.

I would love railcard once again. It would revolutinise my travel and give me so much extra disposable income. A third of train fares! Fantastic! I don't want to stop people enjoying such discounts, just that they understand that for many of us they are not available.You would think that for c£4500 per year you might qualify for a national railcard................

What does annoy me is the gloating several posters seem to enjoy. They cross the line into "gadlfy" territory described above and it grates somewhat!

If people have the foresight to book in advance or find themselves in a position in life to have lots of free time to enjoy themselves, then good for them!

Speaking for myself, I have a full time job, a wife and baby to look after and spend time with and I no longer qualify for a railcard (well except for my Dales railcard, but that doesn't get you very far), yet I am still capable of organizing my time effectively to book travel (for leisure or work) far enough in advance to ensure I get a cheap fare (with the odd impromptu jaunt if I'm feeling spontaneous).

I would love to be able to book a first class trip to, say, Edinburgh, 3 months hence. However, the chances are my work will change making the trip wasted. I accept that as part of my job as i really like my job and the wage is acceptable.

All i want is people to understand that their privileged world is not the same as the world enjoyed by others. Great if you can afford FC travel or qualify for a railcard, enjoy the time you do and enjoy FC! Just remember that it doesn't last forever.

 

[Mojo]

The question is: Why is this board and many of its members obsessed with first class travel?

Are you not aware of the number of 'luxury travel' blogs out there for the airline industry? These are not targeted at multimillionaires but "normal" people who may wish to indulge in a bit of luxury.

Those discussions are out of kilter with the numbers travelling in FC compared to the numbers travelling in second class

Is it really any difference to the website www.flyertalk.com or the number of aviation blogs where the majority of threads are about Business or First class travel and access to airport lounges?

 

[DarloRich]

No idea about flying. I like planes but don't really like flying IN planes

 

[RAPC]

The question is: Why is this board and many of its members obsessed with first class travel?

My view is that many of the posters here lack the maturity and emotional intelligence to understand that first class travel, especially discounted first class travel, is a privilege and not the norm. Because they travel first class on a regular basis they lack exposure to and fail to understand the realities of life for the majority of railway passengers in this country.

I would counter with why do some members of this board have an obsession with those who do travel first class? It has a whiff of inverse snobbery.

In life we all have differing experiences and opinions, personally I respect that and do my best to understand differences. I would suggest that if you think others lack maturity or emotional intelligence if they do not agree with you, then you are possibly not demonstrating those very traits yourself.

For some people first class travel is the norm, for others, it is something they don't use, or don't see the value in.

I mainly travel first class for business, but my daily commute is standard class all the way on Northern luxury 142/150/156 carriages. I get the best of both worlds as I see the pros and cons of both types of travel.

1st class is not a privilege and to think so is naive as (like it or not) we live in a capitalist country. For example, I see plenty of people driving fancy cars that I wouldn't or couldn't choose to spend my money on. The same is true for 1st class travel, that is a choice and not a privilege. Yes, some people cannot afford 1st class, but the same is true of many products, items and services. I'm not sure why 1st class train travel quite attracts the angst that it does.

 

[Mag_seven]

For most things in life, you can get different levels of service/size etc depending on how much you pay whether it be a faster car, a decent tasting wine, a bigger house or a "box" rather than the stands at a sports stadium. I don't understand why some think rail travel should be any different.

 

[cf111]

I use the train often for work and as one of Her Majesty's hard working civil servants travel in standard when doing so.

If I can get a decent price on a first class ticket when travelling for leisure then I'll take it, I won't pay over the odds and I'm quite content in standard. I once paid £36 for a first advance between London and Inverness, £36!

 

[Bevan Price]

There are some threads that I approach with not a little amount of trepidation for fear of being labelled "snobbish", but irrespective of the availability of any cheap advance tickets, my good lady wife and I always make first class de rigeur when available at the correct cost of same.

That is why you have seen me quite happy in past postings on this website that First TPE actually offer this facility in their Class 185 units (I never use the Class 170 ones) and my oft-expressed annoyance that from Wilmslow to Shrewsbury, Ludlow and Hereford, Arriva Cymru in their Class 175 units do not.

My ubjection is not that first class exists, but that in our toy-sized, overcrowded trains, underused first class areas could be better employed in providing more standard class seating. The 2 & 3 coach class 175s are frequently full on Manchester - South Wales & North Wales services. Removing standard class seats to provide first class areas would only make that situation a lot worse. (Just as happened on Cross Country, when they reduced the number of standard class seats on their class 170s.)