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Railtalk mag article: Simplification of fares

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yorkie

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Simplification looms

ATOC have been very keen to announce that from 7 September the fares will be "simplified" and how wonderful this will be for passengers. They even have the cheek to claim that they did this of their own free will at the request of passengers, "Passengers have told us that they want a simpler fares system. We are listening and responding," said David Mapp, commercial director of ATOC. But is this true? The Government's White Paper, Delivering a Sustainable Railway, directed ATOC to implement simplification.

Unfortunately the Government failed to specify the terms of simplification, so we are completely at the mercy of ATOC, whose idea of simplification does not match what I consider to be a genuine use of the term.

Sadly, it appears to be nothing more than a re-branding exercise, at least as far as walk-on tickets are concerned, with a few minor changes that will make very little difference. David Mapp claimed "These changes will enable people to buy train tickets more easily and with greater confidence," but I do not see how anyone would feel more confident purchasing an "Off Peak" than a "Saver" - the names are meaningless as in both cases the restriction codes must be consulted to determine the true validity.

We do know that Saver fares will, in general, be re-named "Off Peak", but what has not been made clear is how 8A (any train) Savers will be named. Take York-Sheffield, there is no Standard Open fare, the Saver Return costs more than the Standard Day. I can only assume that, in this case, the Saver will be re-named "Anytime". However this will increase costs for young people travelling before 10am who will no longer benefit from a railcard discount (minimum fare pre-10am is £8 Savers and £16 Day or Open returns). If this Saver is renamed "Off Peak", then it would not make sense that an "Off peak" ticket is valid on any train.

Like York-Sheffield, Savers from York-Peterborough are also code 8A 'Valid on any train'. So, will they become Anytime? If so, the current Standard Open will be abolished, but that would preven NXEC charging people more to buy onboard and I can't see that happening. If it becomes "Off peak" it will result in a so-called "Off peak" ticket being valid at any time! Interestingly, XC have avoided this scenario by restricting their "Valid at any time" Savers to "Valid after 0500", this could be followed by other TOCs but it is not yet clear.

And what of London to York? The business saver is presumably going to be called Off Peak, and the Saver will surely be called Super Off Peak. Rather like the old days of Savers and SuperSavers but with higher-than-inflation rises justified by the change of names. This will create an interesting anomaly out of King's Cross, as an "Off Peak" (formerly Business Saver) to Peterborough will be valid in the evening peak. There is no day equivalent of the business saver, so will the Cheap Day return become Off Peak Day or Super Off peak? If the latter, then passengers may be confused at the lack of an Off Peak day on this route. If the former, then passengers may be confused at being allowed to use an Off Peak on the 17:03 yet not allowed to use an Off Peak Day on the same train. Which is it to be? It is not yet clear.

Finally, we come to the issue of Break of Journey (BoJ). This is currently allowed on just about all walk-on ticket types, with the exception of the outward portions of Savers. Early indications are that, as Savers will become Off Peak, break of journey will be allowed on Off Peak tickets so that is a genuine improvement and could make things "simpler" however ATOC have scored an own-goal by stating "Break of journey is now permitted on all Off-Peak tickets unless otherwise indicated by a restriction shown against the ticket’s validity code. Therefore, Saver fares that are currently restricted may allow break of journey from 7 September when they become Off-Peak fares. If a customer indicates that they want to break their journey, please see the relevant validity code to check restrictions." So, at present, a Saver is not valid for BoJ on the outward portion but in future an Off Peak is valid for BoJ unless the restriction code says otherwise, so to find out if your ticket is valid for BoJ you need to look up the restriction code. Is that really simplification? I think not.

By this time next month, all should be clear. Watch this space...!

The above article appeared in the August edition of Railtalk magazine, before the effects of Simplification were known.

Part 2 - the conclusion

Last month I identified several potential issues with the new "Simple" fares introduced by the train operating companies (TOCs) with effect from 7 September.

Well, all is now clear - clear as mud that is! - and we know that ATOC has given every TOC a free reign to do whatever they like. Of course, it goes without saying that each TOC has done their own thing, resulting in a system that really isn't "simple" by any sane definition of the word!

Last month I noted that if Savers were renamed Anytime it would cause fare rises for 16-25 holders travelling before 0800, and indeed this has happened. First Great Western (FGW), Northern and London Midland (LM) have done this, resulting in these increases taking place. Sadly the pricing manager at FGW (who I am told is an enthusiast!) had not read the article and was apparently blissfully unaware of this result. To their credit, FGW have now pledged to fix this as a matter of urgency, but how they will achieve this remains to be seen.

TPE, Virgin, and others, set their 'Code 8A - Valid on any train' Savers to be called Off Peak tickets, but they are in fact, valid at any time. With Break of Journey (BoJ) now possible on the outward portion, they are now identical to the equivalent Anytime tickets on some routes. Anytime being the replacement for the Standard Open, but the outward portion is now only valid for one day. This effectively creates penalty fares by the backdoor on some routes, for example Penrith to Preston where the Off Peak return is £25.70 and the Anytime return is £42.00. What do you get for your extra £16.30? Nothing. ATOC actually admitted that anyone purchasing a ticket from a ticket office should be sold the lower fare and that the higher fare would only be sold on board where a customer had boarded at a staffed station.

National Express East Coast (NXEC) followed CrossCountry's model - implemented last May - by introducing phoney 'peak' restrictions on their Off Peak tickets. The restriction is 'Valid on any train, except those timed to depart between 0115 and 0400 inclusive.' NXEC do not run any trains that are timed to pick up within those times. So a York to Grantham 'Off Peak' is not valid in the early hours - when no trains run anyway - but is, in fact, valid on any train, but not at 'any time'!

NXEC and Northern's differing policies will cause confusion, as a holder of a 16-25 card informed me, his regular journey from Hull to York, was £12.80 for a 'Route direct' Saver; the 'Any permitted' being £15.10. This the 'Direct' is now Anytime so he has to pay the £16.00 minimum fare for this ticket. The 'Any permitted' is priced by NXEC so is an Off peak ticket valid on any train, and is therefore only £15.10. So his fare is up by 18%, because he is travelling at 'peak' time, but on an Off Peak ticket.

ATOC stated that where two Off Peak fares existed, the more restrictive would be called Super Off Peak. However this has proven not to be the case. On many routes Off Peak Day is not valid until several hours after Off Peak tickets become valid. Using the York-Grantham example, an Off Peak is effectively valid on any train but the Off Peak Day is not valid until 09:15. But what difference does the word 'Day' mean? Travel back the same day? Yes, but sadly, it also means a whole new set of restrictions. Simple? I think not!

Super Off Peak fares exist for some routes, the new fares include the former SuperSavers, among others. By rights, the East Coast route should have SuperSavers in this category but somehow Savers to London have become Super Off Peak. Sadly, GNER withdrew SuperSavers on this route, they then increased the restrictions on the Saver to make them roughly in line with the old Super Savers. A new ticket, with roughly the same validity of the old Saver was introduced, called a Business Saver. The Business Saver has become 'Off Peak' and is valid on any train in the evening peak out of King's Cross. Grand Central decided to do their own thing, and their ticket with the equivalent validity of the Super Off Peak on this route is called an Off Peak. Confused? You will be. It is permitted to use an Off Peak 'Route Any Permitted' ticket on the 08:21 from York to London and 16:50 return, but an Off Peak 'Route Grand Central' is not valid. In this case, just changing the route makes an apparently valid ticket, invalid. At King's Cross in the evening rush hour, Off Peak tickets are valid, off peak Grand Central tickets are not valid, and Off Peak Day tickets are not valid. This makes no sense.

LM have not only increased fares for 16-25 holders, but they decided to replace the Saver with two products. One of these is the same price as the Saver and is called Off Peak. While previously, LM Savers were valid at any time, the Off Peak tickets are not valid until 09:00. Replacing a ticket with the same validity of the Saver is Anytime, but this costs more - a rise of 6% on average. Worse, these fares will rise considerably in future. The Saver was protected, but LM will argue that the true continuation of the Saver is the Off Peak fare, therefore the cost is 'regulated' to the rate of Inflation +1%. The Anytime ticket is not 'regulated' so, come January, you can be sure these fares will rise by a hefty amount.

Finally, we come to break of journey. This is now possible on the outward and return tickets of all walk-on fares, which is welcome. However there is a catch, "Break of journey is now permitted on all Off-Peak tickets unless otherwise indicated by a restriction shown against the ticket’s validity code." Again this is not simple, but early indications are that only NXEC are introducing this restriction, which applies to the outward journey only. It's unenforceable and I suspect it will be quietly dropped in future.

To go back to the original point, "Passengers have told us that they want a simpler fares system. We are listening and responding," said David Mapp, commercial director of ATOC. Their response appears to be to confuse us to the point that our brains hurt. They want customers to "buy their tickets with confidence", but I am not aware of anyone looking to the 7th of September with any "confidence", least of all guards who are given the impossible job of enforcing these ludicrous restrictions. I hope you have understood this article, but if you have any questions or concerns about any of your regular journeys, please feel free to ask them in the 'Fares, Tickets & Routeing' forum at railforums.co.uk.
 
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digitaltoast

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ATOC have been very keen to announce that from 7 September the fares will be "simplified" and how wonderful this will be for passengers. They even have the cheek to claim that they did this of their own free will at the request of passengers, "Passengers have told us that they want a simpler fares system. We are listening and responding,"
Yeah, in the same way Gordon Brown is listening and responding!
I've written a really stinging letter to Passenger Focus, as it was actually they who called for this, and after two chase-ups, they're going to reply at some point!

What I'm wondering is - will this round of "simplification" be accompanied by the 50%-90% increases in prices that the last "simplification" saw?
I've got several advance journeys to book, and I'm wondering whether to get them done before Sunday. I mean, they're not going to get any cheaper, are they?
 

OwlMan

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I can not understand why ATOC did not actually simplify the fares instead of making them even more complicated.

Why not have simple rules e.g

Advanced Fares - booked trains only, no break of journey
anytime tickets - no restrictions
off peak tickets - no travel before 0930.
super off peak - no travel before 0930 & between 1530 & 1830.
Allow break of journey on all tickets except advanced.

But that is too obvious for those in power

Instead we have a system , that when simplified introduces more restrictions than previously and still does not have consistency between operating TOCS

Peter
 

theblackwatch

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Instead we have a system , that when simplified introduces more restrictions than previously and still does not have consistency between operating TOCS

I would describe it as a "missed opportunity". Rather than simplifying the fares, all they have simplified is the names of the tickets, which has in reality made things more complex as we have lots of tickets with the same name, but different restrictions - so complex that even rail staff seem to have trouble grasping them.
 

yorkie

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What I'm wondering is - will this round of "simplification" be accompanied by the 50%-90% increases in prices that the last "simplification" saw?
I've got several advance journeys to book, and I'm wondering whether to get them done before Sunday. I mean, they're not going to get any cheaper, are they?
No, unless you have a 16-25 railcard, then on some routes the fare increases by up to 60%.

Although if you make use of Standard Opens then you can have problems with the abolishment of them and the replacement tickets having their outward validity cut from 1 month to 1 day.

Fare rises also affect everyone on routes priced by London Midland (regardless of whether a railcard is held or not).
 

bluenoxid

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Like York-Sheffield, Savers from York-Peterborough are also code 8A 'Valid on any train'. So, will they become Anytime? If so, the current Standard Open will be abolished, but that would preven NXEC charging people more to buy onboard and I can't see that happening. If it becomes "Off peak" it will result in a so-called "Off peak" ticket being valid at any time! Interestingly, XC have avoided this scenario by restricting their "Valid at any time" Savers to "Valid after 0500", this could be followed by other TOCs but it is not yet clear.

I don't get this 05:00 business, can you elaborate?
 

bluenoxid

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So this allows them to have an even higher fare for those that get on board without tickets. Now I get it.
 

DaveNewcastle

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I'm a bit late in coming up with this idea, sorry - but, if everyone on this forum who lives more than, say, 150 miles from London wrote/emailed their MP about this issue then the MP would probs have good personal interest in trying to understand this and so support their colleagues if one of them raised it as a debate in the House of Commons (thereby, perhaps, perhaps, forcing a deabte and ruling on REAL simplification).
I think this is a political issue - I hope some of you do, too.
Perhaps Yorkie will permit us to cut and paste his mag. articles in our letters, along with a couple of local examples of un-simplification - and actual fare increases?
 

yorkie

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So this allows them to have an even higher fare for those that get on board without tickets. Now I get it.
Yes. Indeed on some routes the Off Peak tickets are literally code 8A "Valid at any time on any train", BoJ is allowed on the outward portion and they are identical to the Anytime tickets. ATOC admitted that the only purpose for Anytime is to charge more on the train, and confirmed that ticket offices are duty bound to sell Off Peak tickets to anyone travelling at peak time on these routes. There are some examples of this on the northern part of the WCML but elsewhere too. In this case Anytime is effectively a penalty fare.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I think this is a political issue - I hope some of you do, too.
Perhaps Yorkie will permit us to cut and paste his mag. articles in our letters, along with a couple of local examples of un-simplification - and actual fare increases?
Absolutely.

If anyone wishes to contact their MP (or local papers) and wants local examples please post a request here and I'm sure someone (possibly me but someone may beat me to it!) will respond shortly.
 

yorkie

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The Campaign for Better Transport and Passenger Focus have "welcomed" simplification

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7602559.stm

I am disgusted that these two organisations have welcomed it, as the new system is NOT simpler AT ALL. In some areas it is, in fact, more complex.

Passenger Focus and The Campaign for Better Transport clearly have not done any investigation into the new fares whatsoever. Pathetic!
 

me123

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The only thing that you could even argue is simplification is that there's now only 2 tickets for "turn up and go" travel. Sadly, this means removal (?) of Savers and therefore many fares will go up; particularly for railcard holders as you pointed out in another thread, Yorkie.

Hopefully the new system shouldn't be too diabolical. And I can't believe that I've had to say that.
 

nedchester

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The Campaign for Better Transport and Passenger Focus have "welcomed" simplification

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7602559.stm

I am disgusted that these two organisations have welcomed it, as the new system is NOT simpler AT ALL. In some areas it is, in fact, more complex.

Passenger Focus and The Campaign for Better Transport clearly have not done any investigation into the new fares whatsoever. Pathetic!

They've been taken in by the ATOC spin me thinks...........:???::roll:
 

yorkie

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The only thing that you could even argue is simplification is that there's now only 2 tickets for "turn up and go" travel.

2 tickets? you're having a laugh! :lol: (or you've been brainwashed by David Mapp, in which case I expect you to buy CDs instead of doing leisure journeys;))


--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Here's Max's choice of tickets, Hull to York (with a railcard). With "only 2 tickets" to choose from, it's so simple:lol:

While previously Max got a Saver, he should not have done so, as it is better to buy CDs instead (according to David Mapp), but never fear, the Saver has gone so David doesn't mind us buying train tickets instead of CDs.

Max can now buy in complete confidence :lol:

I am sure Max will be along soon to confirm how simple it is for him now, while it was so terribly complicated before. Well done ATOC!!!! :lol:

hul-yrk_YP.PNG




A few more examples (generic, with no railcard):

Anytime Day not valid in the morning peak:-

loc-mth.PNG




Off Peak Day valid earlier than Off Peak

hfd-bhm.PNG



One stop extra can make all the difference

York to Kiveton Park:-
yrk-kvp.PNG


York to Shireoaks, which is just 4 miles further than Kiveton park(5 mins extra journey time) (Before simplification the fares York-Kiveton/Shireoaks made a lot more sense, with the Saver to Shireoaks costing just a few pence more, and the Saver to either being valid at any time)

At 0925 it is cheaper to go one stop further (if you wanted to go to Kiveton Park, the guard isn't going to stop you jumping off early! )

An Anytime to go 4 extra miles is double the price, but Shireoaks doesn't need an anytime as the Off peak is valid at any time. But Kiveton park off peak is not valid at any time. Simple!

yrk-sro.PNG

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Here's a brilliant case of the "2 tickets" available,

Here you can see that these "2 tickets" present a very simple choice, and anyone can confidently see that the Super Off Peak Day is valid earlier than the Off Peak, although the Off Peak Day is valid earlier than either of them. All these count as "1 ticket" in David Mapp-speak.:roll:

wey-wat.PNG


Interestingly, if you want to get the 09:03 service and return a different day, the Off Peak is not valid, but the First Off Peak is valid, making it the cheapest walk-on fare, cheaper than the (standard) Anytime fare, if you don't mind coming back off peak.

Also, look at that last fare, First Anytime Travelcard. There is no "Day" on the end of it, and it costs more than the "First Anytime Return" valid for 1 month. However it is, apparently, only valid for 1 day.

So tickets can only be valid for a day even if they are not suffixed with "Day". Anytime tickets are not always valid at anytime. Off Peak tickets are sometimes valid at anytime. Off Peak day tickets are sometimes more restrictive than Off Peak tickets, but sometimes less restrictive.
 
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alex57601

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Well, the new tickets came into force today. Can anyone care to comment whether the new ticket system (in their opinion) is more simpler, more complex, or no different?

yorkie said:
I am disgusted that these two organisations have welcomed it, as the new system is NOT simpler AT ALL. In some areas it is, in fact, more complex.

On the flip side it can be argued that it is simpler for some passengers, but I suppose it all depends on the individual passenger's needs and requirements, and how they would now go about it.

Not trying to cause a flame war or anything, just trying to view it from a fair angle.
 

87015

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Complete shambles!!! Has someone at London Midland got very confused?

Leighton Buzzard - Brum, New options are apparently:
Super Off Peak Return LM (7.90 R/C) effetively Saver
Off Peak Day return LM (12.25 R/C) effectively CDR
Off Peak Return LM (13.85 R/C) effectively???
None of which have ANY northbound time restrictions or railcard minimum fares according to NXEC site.

I don't use Virgin Trains so they are irrelevant
Before we had
CDR LM £8.90 (valid on 0906)
SVR LM £9.90 (valid on 0906)
SDR/SOR etc all VT fares £25+ (ONLY things valid AM peak)

Now I'm not going to moan at this new £7.90 valid all day Saver appearing from nowhere, but then why do the other LM only fares then exist?!?

Also Coventry is now more expensive than Brum and retains the old 0906 first train restrictipon, but they have introduced a Nuneaton LM only 'Off peak return' valid via Cov all day at a BARGAIN £6.60

What is going on???
 

37402

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There was some head bert from ATOC on BBC Breakfast this morning trying to convince everyone that these new tickets were a good idea but not doing a very good job of it! Confused me even more (and I think the newsreader was too as he started to ask some useful questions but then thought better of it with the replies he got from ATOC bert)...they should have got yorkie on to explain all...
 

Max

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Well, I can confirm that the new system is a total farce. I have to travel to Sheffield tomorrow, and because I am going before 10am, it would cost me less to buy a ticket to Shireoaks (but not Kiveton Park!) or Chesterfield. Not confusing at all, is it! :roll:
 

class 313

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One thing, 99.9% of us who use the system regularly think its a total shambles yet NR said they have asked people.... Who did they ask and what did they ask!?

Honestly I bet there's a lot more than us who think its just as bad. So why have they decided to go ahead with it?
 

paul1609

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i reckon the easy way out would be to apply a standard railcard minimum fare before 10 am say £14.00 would be a good compromise.
I have to say though, that for Hull to York a peak time fare of £16.00 seems quite reasonable to me.
 

alex57601

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i reckon the easy way out would be to apply a standard railcard minimum fare before 10 am say £14.00 would be a good compromise.
I have to say though, that for Hull to York a peak time fare of £16.00 seems quite reasonable to me.

I think so too Paul.

My personal viewpoint is that too much of the arguments about fare simplification (however people perceive it to be) seem to revolve about the use of railcards before 10am. If you think that's bad spare some thought for the masses of rail travellers, who no doubt make up a higher majority of passengers that use trains than people in the various railcard groups combined, who aren't eligible for a railcard, how do you think they feel?

Simple way to get around the peak time fares is to buy a season ticket. Usually works out better value if you're travelling peak time on a regular basis and buy it long enough in advance (i.e. an annual season ticket) and you're protected against any sudden hikes in fares until the ticket is up for renewal.
 

yorkie

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I'd say it is more complicated, as names like "Off Peak" and "Off Peak Day" fool you into thinking they are the same ticket except one is only valid for one day, when in reality one is more restrictive than the other (and, as mentioned earlier, there is no consistency on that).

Add the fact that neighbouring TOCs have implemented it differently has introduced even more anomalies and complications on some routes, and it is clear that journeys like Hull-York have become more complex (for everyone, not just 16-25 holders).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
My personal viewpoint is that too much of the arguments about fare simplification (however people perceive it to be) seem to revolve about the use of railcards before 10am.
I don't think so. My article doesn't devote that much space to railcards. I feel it was quite balanced. And in the examples I have given in this topic, railcards were only used to demonstrate how it affects Max (Hull-York). Yes, there is a seperate topic on the railcard issue and it's such a complex issue I think it does deserve it's own topic.
If you think that's bad spare some thought for the masses of rail travellers, who no doubt make up a higher majority of passengers that use trains than people in the various railcard groups combined, who aren't eligible for a railcard, how do you think they feel?
I agree entirely, although the only routes where fare increases have occured for non-railcard holders is London Midland. But the biggest issue with simplification, is not fare increases, it's the fact that, at the end of the day, it's not making things "simple" at all, and that applies for railcard holders and non-railcard holders alike.
Simple way to get around the peak time fares is to buy a season ticket. Usually works out better value if you're travelling peak time on a regular basis and buy it long enough in advance (i.e. an annual season ticket) and you're protected against any sudden hikes in fares until the ticket is up for renewal.
Yes, but this is only useful for people who travel almost every day, and most people on this forum probably use rail more for leisure purposes.
 
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Mojo

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In my opinion, as others have said, the fare changes should have introduced common restrictions nationwide and not depending on the specific route. Even with the same TOC the same ticket names can have different restrictions!
 

87015

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More new London Midland fares from Leighton, I presume these are in preparation for the new Trent Valley 350s from December? All Y-P prices, no time restrictions or minimum Y-P railcard fare appears to apply before 1000.

Leighton-Tamworth/Lichfield £6.60
Leighton-Rugeley TV/Stafford £7.90
Leighton-Crewe £9.25
Leighton-Liverpool £11.20 - Comparitive VT fares £32.35 'Off peak', £101 'Anytime'

Also all valid via Brum (except Tamworth as no LM trains New St-Tamworth)

Leighton-Crewe (118 miles) is only a pound more expensive than Leighton-Euston (40 miles) and is valid at any time rather than 1000 restriction into Euston.

Also applies Euston-Liverpool £14.50 !!! (41.30 on Virgin)

About the first good things I've had to say about London Midland, these fares are giveaways, what was the ranting about LM fare increases?!??!!
 

yorkie

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Are they route LM Only or something? And are they peak? Surely not Anytime? Presumably not valid via Brum?

The increases on LM are for 'Any Permitted' tickets at peak time.
 

OwlMan

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More new London Midland fares from Leighton, ..

I see there are some new ones from Nuneaton

LM Only

Liverpool OPR £13-00
London OPR £15-00

Asyou say they are probably for the new December trains



Peter
 

87015

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Are they route LM Only or something? And are they peak? Surely not Anytime? Presumably not valid via Brum?

The increases on LM are for 'Any Permitted' tickets at peak time.
Non-railcard prices are shown below, Leighton to Liverpool Stns:
£17 Super Off Peak Return (LM Only)* - shown as valid 0616 x LB via Brum
£25 Off peak day (LM Only)*
£30 Off peak return (LM Only)*
£49 Off peak return (Any permitted)**
£58 anytime return (LM Only)*
£153 anytime return (any permitted)*

* Shown as valid on 0616 Leighton-Brum for 0821 Brum-Liverpool
** Not valid until 0923 off Leighton for 0948 Pendocrap MK-Liverpool

What I can’t understand is why there are three rates of off peak/super off peak?

You are right, the Leighton-M.Keynes anytime return is about 30p more expensive than a SDR used to be. Can't remember the prices of other local fares to check but London has stayed the same.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
More new London Midland fares from Leighton, ..
I see there are some new ones from Nuneaton

LM Only

Liverpool OPR £13-00
London OPR £15-00

Asyou say they are probably for the new December trains



Peter

Superb value though, wait for Virgin to throw the toys out of the pram when they lose market share like they did with Brum!
 

will1337

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Whoa, Euston - Crewe on LM £13.20 Super Off Peak RTN with 16-25 railcard. NXEC's booking engine reckons it's also valid in the morning peak, seemingly before the Off Peak RTN :?
 

yorkie

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Whoa, Euston - Crewe on LM £13.20 Super Off Peak RTN with 16-25 railcard. NXEC's booking engine reckons it's also valid in the morning peak, seemingly before the Off Peak RTN :?
It may well be. Super Off Peak by LM's rules may be valid before Off Peak by Virgin's rules.

Another example of this "simplicity" *cough* is the fact that Off Peak GC tickets are not valid on the early morning train to London or the late evening train from London, but Off Peak (any permitted) tickets ARE valid on those trains!!!
 
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