Railstaff - Patience now at a premium

[exile]

I'm not sure there's any job or profession that doesn't attract criticism - lawyers, politicians, teachers, academics, civil servants, policemen, estate agents, plumbers and so on.

We're all obliged to hand over cash or pay tax to people whom we trust to do a good job on our behalf, and when that doesn't happen we get upset. In the case of trains we pay through the farebox and also via taxes. I think most of our frustration is with the complex structure of the industry, with things beyond anyone's control (weather etc) and with rail management - but occasionally we come across individual staff whose attitude is not as customer-focused as it could be.

 

[O L Leigh]

Ideally there should be mutual respect between all parties, and especially toward the passenger and freight user.

I broadly agree with what you say.

However, I do not believe that extends to having to tolerate my performance judged by people who don't know me on the basis of the most spurious of allegations; that because I am permitted to wear union regalia or because we're occasionally hustled into overlooking something in our cab routine that we are somehow lax in our attitudes towards safety or have a cavalier attitude towards the rules, or that an inability to provide detailed information and reliable timescales in the event of major delays means that we are incompetent or have lost control of the situation. All of these things and more I have patiently explained, and yet that is the attitude and response of a number of members here.

I firmly believe that providing information and insight helps people to have a better understanding of the situations they find themselves in, and that is what has motivated me to persevere. But I have been worn down beyond endurance by peoples constant judgements and accusations.

O L Leigh

 

[313103]

And what exactly is wrong with posting threads about poor behavior, or staff being incorrect?
I appreciate they can decend into mud slinging, but surely that is the job of the mods to sort out?
If someone has a genuine complaint / concern, or wants to find out if they actually were right or wrong, then why shouldn't they post a thread about it?

The reason why i dont like the rants about 'poor staff behaviour' is because when a member of staff on here suggests it would be a good idea to report the matter to the TOC concerned (i have on numerous occassions) either the thread stops, or the op and maybe one or two others go off on a tangent about something else or that they couldnt be bothered. Which is more then likely, most will post on here rather then report direct to the toc because we have so many what is called in the trade (messroom lawyers) and the fact it gets them to rage at something.

Trust me on this one and i will repeat it again 'If you do report it something will be done about it by the tocs Management' I have been a victim of reporting by a passenger on two occasions and was indeed suspended on the first one whilst evidence was gathered (eventually exonerated, by cctv evidence) the second incident i am still appealing against and waiting to see what my management team are going to do. Also as a rep i have represented staff who have been put on a charge made by a complaint by a passenger, because you dont hear anything about after you have reported it doesnt mean the company have done nothing. If they is one thing a toc likes, that is passengers complaining about staff because it takes all the other issues off their shoulders.

 

[jon0844]

Remember it works both ways - there are plenty of railstaff who seem to be very 'anti passenger/customer'. And that applies on here too.

As I'm a journalist, my profession is called into question all the time (and with good reason, to be honest) but should it be the case that anyone who isn't a journalist should be told they cannot comment on articles they read, the way the media cover events and so on?

I attack 'fellow' journalists all the time. I don't see a real problem with people commenting on rail industry workers that fall below standard. Personal attacks are of course not acceptable, but I don't think people should take offence when 'outsiders' air an opinion. It is a forum after all, and people can air an opinion and then wait for others to give their opinion in return.

In many cases, people can change their opinion and view with a fair and honest argument, which is why so many businesses are now benefiting a great deal from engaging with angry people on Twitter and Facebook.

FWIW, there have been many anti-passenger comments, but usually aired by everyone - workers and passengers. We have entire threads about what passengers get up to, and on other forums there are threads on how railstaff can get back at them. It's no different than forums representing people who work in retail/customer services. I've been self-employed and had to deal with the public and my wife does on a daily basis.

Finally, I have actually wondered about working in the industry, not as a driver but a customer service/marketing/social media role. I have no experience or desire to become a driver, or something like an RPI (imagine that - being paired up with my friendly RPI at FCC!) but having been involved originally as an interest commuter to someone who does now know rather a lot about the industry (again, not how to drive a train or anything technical) means I may one day seek this as a career move - hopefully using some of the skills and experience I've gained as a journalist.

 

[Greenback]

As I'm a journalist, my profession is called into question all the time (and with good reason, to be honest) but should it be the case that anyone who isn't a journalist should be told they cannot comment on articles they read, the way the media cover events and so on?

I attack 'fellow' journalists all the time. I don't see a real problem with people commenting on rail industry workers that fall below standard. Personal attacks are of course not acceptable, but I don't think people should take offence when 'outsiders' air an opinion. It is a forum after all, and people can air an opinion and then wait for others to give their opinion in return.

In many cases, people can change their opinion and view with a fair and honest argument, which is why so many businesses are now benefiting a great deal from engaging with angry people on Twitter and Facebook.

FWIW, there have been many anti-passenger comments, but usually aired by everyone - workers and passengers. We have entire threads about what passengers get up to, and on other forums there are threads on how railstaff can get back at them. It's no different than forums representing people who work in retail/customer services. I've been self-employed and had to deal with the public and my wife does on a daily basis.

The point her, I feel, is that people have been posting where standards may not have been breached. A uniformed member of staff sitting reading a newspaper may have bene on a proper break. A guard despatching a train on time is not below standards, except in some people's imagination, and the standards that are set in some imaginations are unrealistically high.

There have been quite a few recent postings that have not been fair and balanced, and while there are some postings about passenger behaviour which fall into the same category, as far as I can see there are less of them.

 

[jon0844]

I'd agree that there are far less anti-public/passenger posts on here than some other forums that are made up of mostly staff. You can find threads where staff actively try and get away with doing or saying nasty things, and there's a real feeling of hatred there.

Now I don't know if any members on there are on here, and don't really care as every profession has people moaning about the things/people they have to deal with. It's normal. Regrettable perhaps, but still normal. I bet railstaff all know people like this, who hate everything - fellow colleagues, management, passengers, life in general!

I'd just hope that people can rise above the rants against 'both sides' as one driver reading a paper (if true) doesn't make all drivers bad. One passenger giving a guard bother doesn't make every passenger an a**hole. I think we know this on here, which is why the forum is totally different to the comments on a story posted on the Daily Mail. Wasn't that one of the early comments, about how the industry will be perceived by such incidents? This is totally true as too many people rant and then fail to listen. Many never even come back to read any responses.

This forum and the posts are not in the same league as newspaper websites or general forums. Remember the posts on Digital Spy about the wheelchair user from Guide Bridge? Totally anti-rail, but soon turned around when more information surfaced.

Staff on here shouldn't take comments personally, but it would be a good idea for information to be removed about specifics - save that for speaking to the TOC directly, and privately.

I've never posted exact data about any of my incidents, or names. Nor have I ever felt like going to the press as a way of sorting things out. Then again, I am not motivated by compensation and actually hate the concept. The only thing I'd ever claim is an actual loss to myself, which is why I never even bother with delay repay claims as getting home 30 minutes late doesn't really cost me anything.

 

[Greenback]

I'd agree that there are far less anti-public/passenger posts on here than some other forums that are made up of mostly staff. You can find threads where staff actively try and get away with doing or saying nasty things, and there's a real feeling of hatred there.

Now I don't know if any members on there are on here, and don't really care as every profession has people moaning about the things/people they have to deal with. It's normal. Regrettable perhaps, but still normal. I bet railstaff all know people like this, who hate everything - fellow colleagues, management, passengers, life in general!

I'd just hope that people can rise above the rants against 'both sides' as one driver reading a paper (if true) doesn't make all drivers bad. One passenger giving a guard bother doesn't make every passenger an a**hole. I think we know this on here, which is why the forum is totally different to the comments on a story posted on the Daily Mail. Wasn't that one of the early comments, about how the industry will be perceived by such incidents? This is totally true as too many people rant and then fail to listen. Many never even come back to read any responses.

This forum and the posts are not in the same league as newspaper websites or general forums. Remember the posts on Digital Spy about the wheelchair user from Guide Bridge? Totally anti-rail, but soon turned around when more information surfaced.

Staff on here shouldn't take comments personally, but it would be a good idea for information to be removed about specifics - save that for speaking to the TOC directly, and privately.

I've never posted exact data about any of my incidents, or names. Nor have I ever felt like going to the press as a way of sorting things out. Then again, I am not motivated by compensation and actually hate the concept. The only thing I'd ever claim is an actual loss to myself, which is why I never even bother with delay repay claims as getting home 30 minutes late doesn't really cost me anything.

You are correct. This forums is far better than others, and I really don't want to see it move in that direction. The admin team can only do so much, as members we all have a responsibility to police ourselves.

I think that this sort of debate is good. I am glad that it has been raised, as I think that on other forums the OP and other members may simply have given up and left. In a strange way, to feel able to raise this issue is a testament to the forum.

I am not a supporter of any form of censorship, any I wouldn't want to see any subject banned. Open debate is good, and I;m not aware of anyone suggesting anything else. However, there have been, in my opinion, a little too many unfounded and speculative posts lately. It wouldn't be constructive to start pointing the finger at any one or two in particular, but I'm sure we all know of some from both perspectives.

 

[bb21]

I am locking this thread as well, as all sides have made their contribution and had their points heard. We risk going around in circles and people just repeating themselves again. We've all agreed to move on from what happened in the last few days, so let's move on.

O L Leigh, thank you for remaining with the forum. I'm sure that yours and other railway staff's contribution is highly appreciated by everyone on this board. Diversity is what made this web forum a wonderful place to be. Let's hope that what happened in the last few days did not stifle any future discussions and that the debates continue in a positive manner. I'm sure we can keep this place the great leisure destination that it has always been.