Raileasy split ticketing

[Merseysider]

I fail to see how splitticketting.com offers anything we can't already get from TCBC.

Fair enough, TCBC doesn't have a booking engine, but nor does it charge you 10% for publicly available information on your tickets.

 

[Scotty]

"......so take advantage of this and you could pay a lot less less than you otherwise would have for the same train tickets. For additional detailed information please follow the links in the menu bar below."

Errrr......

Less less is more!!

 

[kieron]

I fail to see how splitticketting.com offers anything we can't already get from TCBC.

If you mean the "cheapest route search", they seem to be doing two very different things. TCBC looks at the valid routes for flexible tickets in some way, and gives the cheapest flexible tickets which match one of them.

splitticketing.com/trainsplit.com gives a list of split tickets which are valid on the fastest trains between one end and the other, suggesting advance tickets where this is cheaper (although I'm not sure if that's only for the whole route).

It also allows the customer to book tickets (hopefully with reservations for the same seats throughout), which could be handy if you actually want to travel by train.

It doesn't allow the customer to select via points, but I'm sure that's planned as the error message it gives when it can't find a ticket for its chosen trains without splitting (for instance, if you select Wrexham Central-Liverpool South Parkway) suggests that it does.

 

[Merseysider]

splitticketing.com/trainsplit gives a list of split tickets which are valid on the fastest trains between one end and the other...

That functionality has been available for some time however with Money Saving Expert's Tickety Split.

It also allows the customer to book tickets (hopefully with reservations for the same seats throughout), which could be handy if you actually want to travel by train.

The booking tickets element of it is just adding to an already oversaturated market. Granted, raileasy's new product has its uses but I'm just automatically repulsed by anything that charges unnecessary fees, maybe that's just me. As an example, paying almost £10 in fees (see thumbnail) for a walk-up ticket from Manchester to London later today is downright disgusting.

 

[PermitToTravel]

The booking tickets element of it is just adding to an already oversaturated market. Granted, raileasy's new product has its uses but I'm just automatically repulsed by anything that charges unnecessary fees, maybe that's just me. As an example, paying almost £10 in fees (see thumbnail) for a walk-up ticket from Manchester to London later today is downright disgusting.

It feels even more like this because we know that walk up tickets cost the same everywhere, and there are sites that don't charge. I'm sure a lot of the herd of TTL-sheep won't see it that way, but will instead just think that they've found a site that's cheaper than TTL/booking offices.

 

[34D]

Hmmm - I've just used this split ticketing site, with the journey Leeds to Liverpool.

It's recommended to me Leeds to Warrington stns off peak day return £13.95 and Warrington stns to Liverpool stns off peak day return £3.95

I can't find this £13.95 fare in brfares or in any planner.

Can anyone? One adult no railcard.

Ignore this. It's given 16-25 railcard results

 

[greatkingrat]

Are you sure you didn't select a railcard? £13.95 is the railcard discounted off-peak day return price.

 

[34D]

Are you sure you didn't select a railcard? £13.95 is the railcard discounted off-peak day return price.

I didn't select one, but that is what has happened

 

[kieron]

That functionality has been available for some time however with Money Saving Expert's Tickety Split.

I don't know how to access that functionality from the link you provided. All I see are walk-up singles.

The booking tickets element of it is just adding to an already oversaturated market.

I don't know if anyone else offers a similar product. Telesales would be able to sell you the right tickets with the right reservations, but you'd have to work out what those are first, and a site like this is more convenient anyway.

Raileasy have to spend their product development/promotional budget on something, anyway.

 

[yorkie]

I fail to see how splitticketting.com offers anything we can't already get from TCBC.

It's a further development of TCBC though! TCBC is no longer an active project.

Fair enough, TCBC doesn't have a booking engine, but nor does it charge you 10% for publicly available information on your tickets.

Eh? TCBC is the prototype for Splitticketing.com, it doesn't sell tickets, and neither site charges for "publicly available information"

TAs an example, paying almost £10 in fees (see thumbnail) for a walk-up ticket from Manchester to London later today is downright disgusting.

I don't agree that it's "disgusting", but if you think the cost is too high compared to other websites, I would recommend you use other websites!

 

[bb21]

I really don't see the big deal. So what if it charges a fee? It offers a service and there is nothing wrong if it takes a cut. Not everyone would like the hassle of searching for the splits themselves.

The website doesn't force anyone to buy from them. It is perfectly fine to do the research there and buy the tickets from a retailer who doesn't charge any fee. The fee is for convenience, and I see this as a very positive move for the passengers in general as it makes the concept of split-ticketing more accessible to a wider audience.

 

[Merseysider]

It's a further development of TCBC though! TCBC is no longer an active project... Eh? TCBC is the prototype for Splitticketing.com...

I didn't know that!

and neither site charges for "publicly available information"

I meant splitticketing.com levying an additional charge (10% of the saving) on the consumer, for finding the split/s, whereas one could find these splits by themself, for free, by using NRE etc, albeit a very time-consuming task. But that's where the 'convenience' aspect of it comes in I suppose.

if you think the cost is too high compared to other websites, I would recommend you use other websites!

I do! Websites like TTL & Raileasy are just taking advantage of peoples' ignorance about ticket buying, who aren't aware they can avoid the booking fee/credit card fees.

I really don't see the big deal. So what if it charges a fee? It offers a service and there is nothing wrong if it takes a cut. Not everyone would like the hassle of searching for the splits themselves.

The website doesn't force anyone to buy from them...

Fair enough, I suppose the site has to support itself somehow.

 

[pennine]

Brilliant concept, however it does have restrictions!
Lets say a day journey from Redcar to Harrogate, the split I came across once but not picked by this system is Off-Peak Day Return from Redcar Central to Cattal (not via Darlington), then a day return from Cattal to Harrogate.
The point that I am making is it doesn't allow you to filter your journey by putting in your via or avoid points.
However I have to say I am impressed!

 

[bb21]

The thing with splits is that it is virtually impossible to get the best ones at all times.

Improvements can definitely be made to their current release, but it is nevertheless a good start.

 

[Techniquest]

Well I was just looking at a possible trip to Nottingham earlier today, splitting at Birmingham New Street, then at Derby as well, but failed to come up with a figure that suited me. However using this, I have found a split that works well for me and I now may be making a trip to Nottingham tomorrow as a result. Hadn't considered splitting at Long Eaton, but that works well and it does at the times I want too

Glad I bumped into this thread now, shall be bookmarking splitticketing.com for future reference as it saves a fair bit of hassle trying to work out potential splits.

As for TCBC, that was ridiculous for me. Hereford to Manchester Piccadilly split, the most sensible one there I'm aware of is Hereford to Shrewsbury and Shrewsbury to Manchester, since the day return was rudely taken away from us for journeys from Hereford ages ago. However, no, TCBC had other ideas. Hereford to Droitwich, Droitwich to Rugeley, Rugeley to Norton Bridge (!), Norton Bridge to Stoke and finally Stoke to Manchester! Not that it all came out that much cheaper anyway!

 

[Kite159]

Good luck getting a train stopping at Norton Bridge.

It's useful to identify potential splits

 

[Techniquest]

Exactly what I thought, although I think it's still technically possible to get there, just by rail replacement bus. Still, it'll be finally closed officially in a few years (if it isn't already) when the new junction and layout get laid there. High time it came in too, it takes way too long to get through that area and needs to be sped up!

 

[Kite159]

At least it didn't suggest spiting at the other permanent rail replacement bus service stations or Polesworth

 

[Mike@Raileasy]

Glad to see people here checking it out and thanks for the comments.

Please don't recommend people use it to find splits and then book them on TOC web sites, that would be annoying. A lot of really specialist knowledge (which you don't pick up in 5 mins) and hard work has gone into developing it. It's also very heavy load wise on our Fujitsu timetable&fare boxes as I'm sure you can imagine and those cost £15K a go. Unfortunately we can't hide the cost of those in ticket prices or use charges we make on TOCs (for their web sites) to subsidise them. Don't forget folks, those webTIS costs are going into ticket prices, you're paying for them.

Why do you think TTL and Atos haven't done something like this? Not wanting to risk upsetting their "customers" springs to my mind. I don't include Tickety Split and TTL's effort. That shouldn't be allowed IMO, encouraging people to book return journeys in single transactions is just plain dreadful. I have no idea how that got through accreditation. Exposing the average consumer to split ticketing in this way is downright wrong unless they happen to just want a single journey, they could end up paying more for 2 splits than an ordinary return. You guys know about splits and how to find them but the average traveller doesn't. This solution does that far better than Tickety.

It's still a work in progress and as mentioned above we do take on board people's comments and we will work through them. We have launched this without advance splits but they will be there soon. There's still split walk ons that are cheaper than ordinary (through) advances so that is why we launched it as it is.

Also it's not easy convincing the "toll keepers" that we are not going to bombard the NRS. We have a really clever way of doing advances that will keep them happy so, like it has with walk ons, it will have multiple splits with advances unlike Tickety's one split.

 

[Merseysider]

Please don't recommend people use it to find splits and then book them on TOC web sites, that would be annoying.

I don't like the idea of the commission on top of the booking fees, but if you were to offer for example membership with a fixed cost per year, allowing unlimited use of the splitting technology, that'd impress me. I am bound to have people disagreeing with me, and I know it wouldn't be cheap, but I'd see that as a much better option than paying several quid each time.

Why do you think TTL and Atos haven't done something like this?

I'd hazard a guess at them being unwilling/unable to think outside the box, being unable to monetise said product, or out of fear it'd lose them income.

it will have multiple splits with advances unlike Tickety's one split.

Not sure if it'd work or not, but what about incorporating more than just standard tickets into the product? For example, if I were to travel LIV - MAN tonight, the cheapest split would be a Merseyside Saveaway and an ECD from NLW - MAN. But Tickety couldn't do this.

 

[Mike@Raileasy]

Not sure if it'd work or not, but what about incorporating more than just standard tickets into the product? For example, if I were to travel LIV - MAN tonight, the cheapest split would be a Merseyside Saveaway and an ECD from NLW - MAN. But Tickety couldn't do this.

Thanks for this, we'll check it out.

 

[Qwerty133]

Please don't recommend people use it to find splits and then book them on TOC web sites, that would be annoying. A lot of really specialist knowledge (which you don't pick up in 5 mins) and hard work has gone into developing it. It's also very heavy load wise on our Fujitsu timetable&fare boxes as I'm sure you can imagine and those cost £15K a go. Unfortunately we can't hide the cost of those in ticket prices or use charges we make on TOCs (for their web sites) to subsidise them.

It's fair to ask people not to suggest it to others to use another website to book the tickets found, however you're going to have to accept that some people will think of it themselves.
Personally I see it as no different to someone going into HMV to have a look at the CDs or into Currys to play with a number of different TVs or tablets and then going home and buying it cheaper on amazon.
(sorry Mods, I know you hate seeing retail comparisons on here!)

 

[Goatboy]

I think this is a generally bad thing all round.

It's no use to those of us on here because nobody is going to want to pay the fees to use it - the example earlier in the thread of the Manchester ticket with, what, 9 quid worth of fees was quite comical. Worse still it mainstreams the idea of split ticketing, which will have only one end result - changes in the NRCOC or the prices of the individual tickets designed to prevent the practice in future.

The TOC's who set the fares want you to pay £50 for a return from A to C via B, even though A to B and B to C costs £30 in total. The more exposure this sort of thing gets the more likely it is that a return from A to B and B to C will one day miraculously cost £50 in total.

 

[Mike@Raileasy]

I think this is a generally bad thing all round.

It's no use to those of us on here because nobody is going to want to pay the fees to use it - the example earlier in the thread of the Manchester ticket with, what, 9 quid worth of fees was quite comical. Worse still it mainstreams the idea of split ticketing, which will have only one end result - changes in the NRCOC or the prices of the individual tickets designed to prevent the practice in future.

The TOC's who set the fares want you to pay £50 for a return from A to C via B, even though A to B and B to C costs £30 in total. The more exposure this sort of thing gets the more likely it is that a return from A to B and B to C will one day miraculously cost £50 in total.

The DfT have told us the NRCOC will not be changed. The Govt gets enough flak at every fare round so why would they do something on top of that to raise prices?

I hope that is the only reason you feel "mainstreaming" splits is not a good idea, we like the idea of giving more people a chance to save.

Where the DfT needs to be strong is if the TOCs start saying they're going to lose £millions and so they are going to need more taxpayer "support".

 

[Merseysider]

One thing that could be done to stop people finding the split, and then purchasing the tickets elsewhere to avoid the fees, would be to hide the split(s) but still show journey details, if that makes sense?

For example, on a Single from Harrogate to London, instead of showing the splits at Doncaster and Grantham, just show the departure and arrival times, the change at Leeds and state the whole journey is made on Anytime tickets.

Or would this fall foul of consumer law or the like?

 

[transportphoto]

Please don't recommend people use it to find splits and then book them on TOC web sites, that would be annoying.

Personally, I have never used RailEasy and never plan to do so, however I will, if this site is proven to suggest splits effectively, use it to find useful splits. However I won't be using the site to book tickets, I want cheap train tickets, I don't want to pay for the privilege of having cheaper train tickets by way of booking fees. For this reason I will be turning to buying in person (as I do for most journeys) or buying through a TOC's website.

As I business you have to understand that people will do this, you can't let it annoy you... otherwise the annoyance is going to become very painful!

TP

 

[Mike@Raileasy]

One thing that could be done to stop people finding the split, and then purchasing the tickets elsewhere to avoid the fees, would be to hide the split(s) but still show journey details, if that makes sense?

For example, on a Single from Harrogate to London, instead of showing the splits at Doncaster and Grantham, just show the departure and arrival times, the change at Leeds and state the whole journey is made on Anytime tickets.

Or would this fall foul of consumer law or the like?

We thought long and hard about this and might have to do so if people do as Transportphoto suggests

 

[PermitToTravel]

One thing that could be done to stop people finding the split, and then purchasing the tickets elsewhere to avoid the fees, would be to hide the split(s) but still show journey details, if that makes sense?

For example, on a Single from Harrogate to London, instead of showing the splits at Doncaster and Grantham, just show the departure and arrival times, the change at Leeds and state the whole journey is made on Anytime tickets.

Or would this fall foul of consumer law or the like?

This would be possible with splits that are solely composed of advances, but difficult with walkup splits unless you want to leave it a secret until booking time which parts of the journey are flexible and which aren't

 

[Merseysider]

Where the DfT needs to be strong is if the TOCs start saying they're going to lose £millions and so they are going to need more taxpayer "support".

If this turned out to be the case, it would surprise me. The TOCs make enough money from people buying far more expensive tickets than they actually need, that they shouldn't feel the effects of more people getting from A to B by spending the absolute minimum.

If the DfT / TOCs made a move against split ticketing, it would not go down well at all and would probably lead to a load of bad PR. You'd see something like MAN JAILED FOR HAVING TWO TICKETS in the Daily Mail and to be honest I just don't think it's something they'd risk doing, at a time when the rail industry is competing with coach, car and plane. Split ticketing is here to stay (for the time being).

We thought long and hard about this and might have to do so if people do as Transportphoto suggests

It'd be a shame but looking at it from a business viewpoint you can't have everyone taking the service for free and getting nothing back.

I'd suggest instead of the flat 10% commission (as this could quite easily become double digit figures for longer journeys) maybe cap it at a certain amount? I imagine some people would quite happily go through the whole process, then get to the payment stage, realise there's £20 worth of fees and go elsewhere.

 

[Mike@Raileasy]

Not sure if it'd work or not, but what about incorporating more than just standard tickets into the product? For example, if I were to travel LIV - MAN tonight, the cheapest split would be a Merseyside Saveaway and an ECD from NLW - MAN. But Tickety couldn't do this.

They're essentially rover tickets so can't be sold via ToD. You guys will know why rovers and rangers aren't ToDable, it's a shame though. Not sure but I think we'd have to get accredited as well for retailing these. Nice products though and definitely something we need to look at in the future.
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If this turned out to be the case, it would surprise me. The TOCs make enough money from people buying far more expensive tickets than they actually need, that they shouldn't feel the effects of more people getting from A to B by spending the absolute minimum.

If the DfT / TOCs made a move against split ticketing, it would not go down well at all and would probably lead to a load of bad PR. You'd see something like MAN JAILED FOR HAVING TWO TICKETS in the Daily Mail and to be honest I just don't think it's something they'd risk doing, at a time when the rail industry is competing with coach, car and plane. Split ticketing is here to stay (for the time being).

It'd be a shame but looking at it from a business viewpoint you can't have everyone taking the service for free and getting nothing back.

I'd suggest instead of the flat 10% commission (as this could quite easily become double digit figures for longer journeys) maybe cap it at a certain amount? I imagine some people would quite happily go through the whole process, then get to the payment stage, realise there's £20 worth of fees and go elsewhere.

Jake, I like the cut of your jib