Raileasy selling invalid tickets?

[trebor79]

Looking to buy a return to London next week.
RailEasy is offering me Saver returns, with the ability to book seats on a PEAK train coming back from London. The TOCs own website correctly doesn't offer the peak trains on this ticket.

So what would happen if I booked via RailEasy and booked seats on one of the peak trains? Technically the ticket isn't valid, but I would have a valid reservation for that train on the ticket. I guess it would have to be accepted as valid?
What would happen if I ended up catching a different peak train from the one I booked, or didn't book a specific train but carried a screengrab of the RailEasy site indicating the ticket was valid on the particular train I'm travelling on?

 

[Clip]

Is it offering you the saver half ticket though?

In fact it really would help if you could show what tickets they are offering

 

[alistairlees]

You'll have to provide details of the journey if you'd like people to help.

 

[trebor79]

Diss - London

 

[cactustwirly]

Diss - London

What times/dates are you looking at?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

RailEasy is offering me Saver returns, with the ability to book seats on a PEAK train coming back from London.

There is no such thing as a generic "peak" train in ticketing terms. Specific trains aren't generally barred or permitted for Off-Peak tickets in general. Whether or not you can take a particular service depends on the restrictions applying to the specific ticket(s) you hold. It is quite possible that there are services during the evening rush hour that an Off-Peak, or even a Super Off-Peak, ticket is valid on. "Off-Peak" often bears little relation with the actual level of crowding on the train, in any case.

The TOCs own website correctly doesn't offer the peak trains on this ticket.

I would usually err on the other interpretation - it seems more likely to me that Raileasy are getting it right and the TOC is not. That is because I know that the developers of Raileasy have put more thought and care into implementing route and time restrictions correctly, and as intended, compared to the developers of some other sites.

So what would happen if I booked via RailEasy and booked seats on one of the peak trains?

You would have made a contract permitting you to travel on the service you were booked on, as shown by the reservation accompanying your ticket.

Technically the ticket isn't valid

It is, if you are sold it in conjunction with a particular itinerary.

I guess it would have to be accepted as valid?

Yes, it would. Under the trite principles of contract law, once a contract has been made the other party can't simply refuse to honour it because it no longer suits them. This being said, there may be a (sometimes considerable) difference between the legal principles and your rights, and what the TOC actually does or respects. Luckily I trust the support staff at Raileasy to help a customer who has problems in making a journey in line with the booked itinerary.

What would happen if I ended up catching a different peak train from the one I booked, or didn't book a specific train but carried a screengrab of the RailEasy site indicating the ticket was valid on the particular train I'm travelling on?

It's a less clear cut situation and there is a risk that it will be deemed insufficient to grant you the absolute right to travel on the train you want. I would suggest booking yourself on the train you intend to catch, and if this is not possible, contacting Raileasy nearer the date if you intend to catch a different train, to check whether or not you are permitted to take it.

 

[trebor79]

Monday 8th April.
Out on the 0917 (which is off peak)
Back 1700 (which is peak)

Edit. Thank you fortheloveof for the comprehensive reply.
I think on this particulat route any departure from Liverpool Street after 4pm but before 7pm is deemed peak. I did once trawl the web to find that definition when I was travelling on a saver return.

 

[WelshBluebird]

NRE suggests an Off Peak Return too (I assume that is what you meant by saver return).
Looks like there is an easment on the restriction that means the normal evening time restrictions don't apply between Monday 8th and Thursday 18th April.

This is the restriction for the off peak return:
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/ticket_types/restrictions/1A

School Holidays – Evening peak restrictions from Liverpool Street, Stratford (London), Tottenham Hale and Seven Sisters are lifted during school holidays and half-term weeks:

2018

Half-term: Thursday 18th to Friday 26th October
Christmas: Wednesday 19th December to Wednesday 2nd January 2019

2019

Half-term: Monday 18th to Friday 22nd February
Easter: Monday 8th to Thursday 18th April (Friday 19th and Monday 22nd are public holidays)
Half-term: Tuesday 28th to Friday 31st May (Monday 27th May is a public holiday)
Summer: Thursday 25th July to Thursday 3rd September
Half-term: Monday 21st to Friday 25th October
Christmas: Thursday 19th December to Friday 3rd January 2020.

All dates are inclusive.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Monday 8th April.
Out on the 0917 (which is off peak)
Back 1700 (which is peak)

The restriction code on an Off-Peak Return from Diss to London Terminals is 1A. The details of this restriction are shown on this website. This shows that evening restrictions do not apply during the school half-term period between the 8th of April and the 22nd of April.

Raileasy is entirely correctly selling the ticket in this manner, and the TOC may be overcharging if they are failing to implement the half-term easement of the restrictions.

As previously stated, there is no such thing as a "peak" train. The 17:00 is valid year-round on an Off-Peak ticket from Bristol to Diss, for example. It all depends on the ticket you hold.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Monday 8th April.
Out on the 0917 (which is off peak)
Back 1700 (which is peak)

It does indeed appear this is happening - no evening peak restrictions at all are shown for the Off Peak Return.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The restriction code on an Off-Peak Return from Diss to London Terminals is 1A. The details of this restriction are shown on this website. This shows that evening restrictions do not apply during the school half-term period between the 8th of April and the 22nd of April.

Ah, makes sense.

 

[trebor79]

Aha, I'd forgotten that evening restrictions are lifted during school holidays. It does indeed appear that GA's web ticket engine is incorrect, or has not been updated to allow seat to be booked on the usually restricted services.
Booked via raileasy and happy for them to have the £2.50 booking fee in this case

 

[Bletchleyite]

Aha, I'd forgotten that evening restrictions are lifted during school holidays. It does indeed appear that GA's web ticket engine is incorrect, or has not been updated to allow seat to be booked on the usually restricted services.
Booked via raileasy and happy for them to have the £2.50 booking fee in this case

While cock-up is more likely than conspiracy, perhaps they are seeking to discourage use of those trains, whereas they'll let you if you show up?

 

[trebor79]

Raileasy is entirely correctly selling the ticket in this manner, and the TOC may be overcharging if they are failing to implement the half-term easement of the restrictions.

As previously stated, there is no such thing as a "peak" train. The 17:00 is valid year-round on an Off-Peak ticket from Bristol to Diss, for example. It all depends on the ticket you hold.

It does appear the TOC is overcharging in this case (or at least not allowing you to book a seat on the return).
Apologies for my rather casual use of "Peak", I'm a relative layman when it comes to ticketing and fares.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

It does appear the TOC is overcharging in this case (or at least not allowing you to book a seat on the return).
Apologies for my rather casual use of "Peak", I'm a relative layman when it comes to ticketing and fares.

No problem, the train companies certainly don't help with the misconception of "peak" trains, what with they say in their timetables, websites and announcements!

 

[JBuchananGB]

With the knowledge gained here you could have booked the ticket on the GA web site by selecting a return train for which they would sell you the ticket, as long as you weren't also hoping to reserve a seat on it. For this type of ticket you don't have to travel on any particular train, just one on which the ticket is valid.

 

[Sleepy]

Or you could have just bought that ticket on the day at the station.

 

[Silver Cobra]

Seems it's not Greater Anglia specifically that are not offering the fare, but all Trainline-powered booking engines. I checked the Virgin Trains, East Midlands Trains and Cross Country websites, who all also use Trainline, and they don't offer the off-peak return for this journey either. I also checked the LNER and c2c websites as well to see what their booking engines offer, and the off-peak return came up correctly for both.

 

[Paul Kelly]

That is because I know that the developers of Raileasy have put more thought and care into implementing route and time restrictions correctly, and as intended, compared to the developers of some other sites.

Retailers and booking engine providers in general do not implement route and time restrictions themselves! This is done by the journey planner they use. The Raileasy website uses the Fujitsu RIBS journey planner, which is also used in quite a few booking offices, and generally handles these things accurately.

 

[alistairlees]

Retailers and booking engine providers in general do not implement route and time restrictions themselves! This is done by the journey planner they use. The Raileasy website uses the Fujitsu RIBS journey planner, which is also used in quite a few booking offices, and generally handles these things accurately.

You beat me to it - I was just about to say the same thing.