Railcards are going Digital

[AM9]

But when you get your digital one for the app, you could be sent a printed card with the photo embedded. ...

In other words a hardcopy railcard which you would need to carry as ID when travelling using the digital one.
As there's no smiley I assume that you aren't creating a circular argument here just for fun.

 

[kieron]

In other words a hardcopy railcard which you would need to carry as ID when travelling using the digital one.
As there's no smiley I assume that you aren't creating a circular argument here just for fun.

Is there a fundamental distinction here between having two copies of your railcard, each with a photograph on it, and having three? If not, why would you expect anyone to carry more than one at a time?

 

[jon0844]

In other words a hardcopy railcard which you would need to carry as ID when travelling using the digital one.
As there's no smiley I assume that you aren't creating a circular argument here just for fun.

I have my Visa debit card in my wallet. I make most payments with my phone or watch.

What's the harm in carrying a physical card AND having it on an app? If I forget the card one day, I use the app. Or I just use the app for convenience every day until the battery dies or the phone is lost/stolen.

I don't see why my suggestion was taken as a joke? I think all cards should be of the plastic type with a photo printed on them and these days such printers are NOT that expensive. Now I am not silly enough to believe TOCs would invest in having equipment at every station, but it could be done.

You could even let someone apply on their phone before they come to the station, then get their card printed there and then (if not wishing to wait for it to be posted). The same machines could issue smartcard tickets with photo ID and other things, so they'd certainly have plenty of uses.

I am sure it will happen ONE day.

 

[Clip]

I have my Visa debit card in my wallet. I make most payments with my phone or watch.

What's the harm in carrying a physical card AND having it on an app? If I forget the card one day, I use the app. Or I just use the app for convenience every day until the battery dies or the phone is lost/stolen.

I don't see why my suggestion was taken as a joke? I think all cards should be of the plastic type with a photo printed on them and these days such printers are NOT that expensive. Now I am not silly enough to believe TOCs would invest in having equipment at every station, but it could be done.

You could even let someone apply on their phone before they come to the station, then get their card printed there and then (if not wishing to wait for it to be posted). The same machines could issue smartcard tickets with photo ID and other things, so they'd certainly have plenty of uses.

I am sure it will happen ONE day.

You dont even need one to be printed on plastic just do what they do with the likes of the 2together and have the laminate plastic over it.

I see no harm in issuing both a physical card and one on the app as long as they have your photo to stop them being shared

 

[jon0844]

The old paper card / film is just a faff for staff (and waiting customers) and open for tampering. Get people to do their card application online and you speed the process up and offer something more resilient and easier to track/record.

But there's an initially high cost for equipment and training.

 

[bunnahabhain]

If railcards are digitised and can be stored on mobile devices, then it follows that the same information could be stored on a central database, including photo ID, age and address details.. This can then be replicated to all the relevent railway employees (the actual data size would be trivial compared to the power of even basic modern smartphones/ipads etc).

This means any passenger who can't show their railcard because it's lost/stolen/forgotten, or their phone is dead for whatever reason could have it checked out on the spot by the guard/RPI eliminating the issues with this scenario. You couldn't get away with 'sharing' a railcard as the photo ID would give the game away. Genuine mistakes would no longer be a problem and freeloaders would still be caught.

This is how I think the future of all electronic ticketing should be heading.

Do you not think that we've enough to be dealing with without having to search for details of railcards AND tickets? Do you expect passport control to just look you up because you couldn't remember your passport?

 

[AlterEgo]

Do you not think that we've enough to be dealing with without having to search for details of railcards AND tickets? Do you expect passport control to just look you up because you couldn't remember your passport?

A bit of a daft analogy given that a car hire company can look up my driving licence and see if I've got any points, etc etc.

 

[AM9]

Is there a fundamental distinction here between having two copies of your railcard, each with a photograph on it, and having three? If not, why would you expect anyone to carry more than one at a time?

The railcard is a promotion to get (generally) 1/3 off some types of rail fares. If travelling is a regular activity, e.g. as with a season ticket, the traveller just needs to do the same thing every day, i.e. carry a credit card sized document or as is being suggested, their ever-present mobile phone. With season tickets, there are procedures for those that fail to do so, including when it is stolen or lost. For casual travellers on railcard discounted fares, there is still a need to carry a ticket to travel so why would the additional deadweight of a railcard present so many problems. If they fail to bring the tickets with them there are penalties, although they are sometimes waived by obliging the passenger to present the card within a limited period after.
If the rules allow more than one 'railcard' to be carried, and the passenger is one of those who are so careless (or 'forgetful') to have one on themselves, they can carry two, - or three etc., providing the sheer weight of all those cards stuck to various parts of their body or concealed within their clothing isn't too much for them to walk, - although maybe that extra weight might jog their memory.
I'm amazed that there are so many apologists for those that find the simple rules of a) buying and b) carrying the necessary travel documents, too difficult or inconvenient for them. There are nearly 10 million ENCTS passholders in England and most of them manage without problems or complaint despite that demographic probably having a greater proportion of citizens with memory and/or physical difficulties.

 

[MikeWh]

There are nearly 10 million ENCTS passholders in England and most of them manage without problems or complaint despite that demographic probably having a greater proportion of citizens with memory and/or physical difficulties.

That's actually a very good point.

 

[bunnahabhain]

A bit of a daft analogy given that a car hire company can look up my driving licence and see if I've got any points, etc etc.

They still require the driving licence there to hand over the keys.

 

[bspahh]

I like having a physical card and not just a phone app. However, having both is better than either one on its own. The phone app can remind me when my discount card is about to expire.

My Network card expired last week, and I hadn't noticed. Luckily, I bought a ticket at a ticket office, and they noticed it. If I had bought one from a machine, I wouldn't have done so.

I've got a Bahn card for Germany. You need to show that as well as the ticket. I had left my Bahn card at home, but I was able to use their phone app instead.

 

[jon0844]

Given the archaic processes to do things at most ticket offices, I think booking hall staff would love to have more computerised systems to make their job easier (for as long as they have a job given the desire to push everyone to TVMs and apps).

 

[Llanigraham]

A bit of a daft analogy given that a car hire company can look up my driving licence and see if I've got any points, etc etc.

Not if you only have a Photocard driving licence!

 

[sheff1]

They still require the driving licence there to hand over the keys.

Really ? In my experience, the car hire firm are happy to park the vehicle outside the house and post the keys through the door without ever seeing the driver, never mind the licence.

 

[kieron]

The railcard is a promotion to get (generally) 1/3 off some types of rail fares. If travelling is a regular activity, e.g. as with a season ticket, the traveller just needs to do the same thing every day, i.e. carry a credit card sized document or as is being suggested, their ever-present mobile phone. With season tickets, there are procedures for those that fail to do so, including when it is stolen or lost. For casual travellers on railcard discounted fares, there is still a need to carry a ticket to travel so why would the additional deadweight of a railcard present so many problems. If they fail to bring the tickets with them there are penalties, although they are sometimes waived by obliging the passenger to present the card within a limited period after.
If the rules allow more than one 'railcard' to be carried, and the passenger is one of those who are so careless (or 'forgetful') to have one on themselves, they can carry two, - or three etc., providing the sheer weight of all those cards stuck to various parts of their body or concealed within their clothing isn't too much for them to walk, - although maybe that extra weight might jog their memory.
I'm amazed that there are so many apologists for those that find the simple rules of a) buying and b) carrying the necessary travel documents, too difficult or inconvenient for them. There are nearly 10 million ENCTS passholders in England and most of them manage without problems or complaint despite that demographic probably having a greater proportion of citizens with memory and/or physical difficulties.

Hmm. Sometimes I really regret how difficult it is to quote enough context on RailUK Forums.

jon0844 made some posts [post=3038718]proposing that people could, at some point, be sent a physical railcard and a digital railcard when they apply for one[/post].
You made a post [post=3038912]suggesting that, if this happens, people who had both types would only be allowed to use the physical railcard[/post].
I made a post [post=3040166]suggesting that this is unlikely given the announced intention to send people two copies of their railcards each[/post].
You made the post I quoted above, which I shall not attempt to summarise.

Did you intend to quote my post there? If so, could you please let me know which parts of your reply shed light on the point under discussion, and how they do this.

Thanks.

 

[AM9]

Hmm. Sometimes I really regret how difficult it is to quote enough context on RailUK Forums.

jon0844 made some posts [post=3038718]proposing that people could, at some point, be sent a physical railcard and a digital railcard when they apply for one[/post].
You made a post [post=3038912]suggesting that, if this happens, people who had both types would only be allowed to use the physical railcard[/post].
I made a post [post=3040166]suggesting that this is unlikely given the announced intention to send people two copies of their railcards each[/post].
You made the post I quoted above, which I shall not attempt to summarise.

Did you intend to quote my post there? If so, could you please let me know which parts of your reply shed light on the point under discussion, and how they do this.

Thanks.

The last paragraph summarises my view on the matter. Whatever medium the passenger has a railcard in, it is their responsibility to ensure that they carry it when travelling, - it's not that difficult really. If they don't have it with them then they don't have the authority to travel at a discount or b) at all in the case of pre booked tickets.
If, as the discussion of this thread has drifted towards, holders can have multiple copies of the railcard, either on electronic devices or on plastic/paper, then for them to be relevant, the forgetful passenger would effectively be frequently carrying more than one copy. So the arguments against carrying cards as they are cumbersome, inconvenient, old-fashioned etc., are irrelevant as the digital version then offers no improvement over the current arrangements.
As I concluded, why so many normal-bodied healthy persons need back-ups just to get a discount when millions of elderly and disabled ENCTS holders manage to remember cards that may be much more essential to their personal health and safety seems very strange to me.

 

[Marklund]

Not if you only have a Photocard driving licence!

No.
Points are electronically stored, and not shown on paper licences either.

 

[infobleep]

The last paragraph summarises my view on the matter. Whatever medium the passenger has a railcard in, it is their responsibility to ensure that they carry it when travelling, - it's not that difficult really. If they don't have it with them then they don't have the authority to travel at a discount or b) at all in the case of pre booked tickets.
If, as the discussion of this thread has drifted towards, holders can have multiple copies of the railcard, either on electronic devices or on plastic/paper, then for them to be relevant, the forgetful passenger would effectively be frequently carrying more than one copy. So the arguments against carrying cards as they are cumbersome, inconvenient, old-fashioned etc., are irrelevant as the digital version then offers no improvement over the current arrangements.
As I concluded, why so many normal-bodied healthy persons need back-ups just to get a discount when millions of elderly and disabled ENCTS holders manage to remember cards that may be much more essential to their personal health and safety seems very strange to me.

I can assure you, being dyslexic mywelf, people can forget and even lose things. You can be any age to do that. I now have things attached to me, including my season ticket because I have lost them. Lose a season ticket and your can't get another replacement for another 12 months, in case your attempting to commit fraud. Having another medium is therefore useful. I have never lost two season tickets within 12 months fortunately but I have lost two season tickets over time.

I won't be able to use the digital rail card mind, as I have a season ticket but it's welcomed for those who can.

 

[planetf1]

Am I right in thinking the digital only railcars is going to be priced at less than the current paper price?

My railcard ran out a few days ago but I'm doing a cheap journey tomorrow where I'd only save less than 4 ukp so thinking if so I'll wait

Ah.. just find the full brief. Priced the same....

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[AY1975]

Any more news about the launch of digital railcards? According to the first page of this thread, they were supposed to be being launched in late July, but I can't see anything to that effect on the railcard.co.uk website.

 

[gray1404]

And where is there any evidence that they will be any cheaper then physical ones?

 

[kieron]

And where is there any evidence that they will be any cheaper then physical ones?

They run special offers for railcards pretty often (they're running one right now). It would make a lot of sense for them to run one when these are introduced.

I don't know what sort of evidence you are hoping for here. We don't even have a launch date at the moment.

 

[planetf1]

Hmmm delayed I guess... Will be making a trip in 2 weeks. Was rather hoping available by then


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[br0llz]

I've just become the proud owner of a new Digital/ App Based Railcard!

Ahead of whipping it out on a coming VTEC journey I wanted to know what experiences people on both ends, staff and passenger, have had with such a new fangled thing?

My mind was drawn to the time I was fined by a Southern Guard during their "TheKey" trials, he'd missed the memo on them and was convinced I was trying my luck, so I'm hoping there's no such horror stories on this new railcard...

 

[island]

Expect difficulty and be pleased if it doesn’t materialise.

 

[causton]

Perhaps you should find the Rail Delivery Group brief and take a copy of it with you to avoid the inevitable questions

 

[planetf1]

Any news on digital railcard?


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[Solent&Wessex]

A further brief the other day indicated that 16-25 would be live in August. It helpfully had no information about revenue protection stuff like how to check them, verify them and all that sort of useful info. It just said to see the Digital Railcard page on the internal Knowledgebase. Which on board staff don't have access to!

 

[causton]

A further brief the other day indicated that 16-25 would be live in August. It helpfully had no information about revenue protection stuff like how to check them, verify them and all that sort of useful info. It just said to see the Digital Railcard page on the internal Knowledgebase. Which on board staff don't have access to!

I received two briefs, one from Rail Delivery Group specifically stating how Revenue Protection officers should deal with them. Disappointing that it has not been passed on...

 

[Wallsendmag]

I've just become the proud owner of a new Digital/ App Based Railcard!

Ahead of whipping it out on a coming VTEC journey I wanted to know what experiences people on both ends, staff and passenger, have had with such a new fangled thing?

My mind was drawn to the time I was fined by a Southern Guard during their "TheKey" trials, he'd missed the memo on them and was convinced I was trying my luck, so I'm hoping there's no such horror stories on this new railcard...

VTEC Train Managers have had the brief pushed to an app on their phones so they all should know about the change