Railcard prosecution

[Nahtashajones]

Hi all,

I was stopped at Birmingham moor street at the barrier on 24th August 2024 traveling from Solihull. They checked my ticket and asked for my 26-30 railcard. The app had logged me out at the time. I knew already had a railcard as I was stopped in London at the barriers the month before checked, it was purchsed in July 2024. I told the guy who had stopped me that I had one but proceeded to take my details. Again, I couldn't get any emails up cause of lack of internet.
I had a letter through from Chiltern on 25th November about intended prosecution unless I send through proof, which I have done.
They have now gone through my previous ticket purchases saying they don't think I had proof for the entire journeys, which was only from Solihull to Birmingham and maybe back again. They've asked me to confirm most of the journeys that I have been on. They've also highlighted any refunds that I have made, which total in 10 since 2020 due to trains either cancelling, so I got a lift/taxi or illness (I suffer from chronic migraines so most of my plans have to be cancelled last minute).

I'm not sure what I should do next as I most likely wont be able to remember most of my journeys, but have never travelled without a ticket!
Any advise would be great thank you, as it is starting to stress me out.

 

[AlterEgo]

To be clear, you did hold a valid railcard, but simply couldn't access it at the time? Would you be able to send proof of it to them now?

Chiltern will be out of time to prosecute you after 24th February anyway, something to bear in mind.

 

[Nahtashajones]

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== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Feb 2025 ==

To be clear, you did hold a valid railcard, but simply couldn't access it at the time? Would you be able to send proof of it to them now?

Chiltern will be out of time to prosecute you after 24th February anyway, something to bear in mind.

Yes, I did have a valid railcard, this was purchased a month before I was stopped. I sent over proof and confirmation of purchase of my railcard but they have brought up previous journeys saying they don't think I had any valid tickets traveling from 2020.

I thought this might be the case as well, are they just trying to put pressure on me to pay a fine?

 

[30907]

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== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Feb 2025 ==


Yes, I did have a valid railcard, this was purchased a month before I was stopped. I sent over proof and confirmation of purchase of my railcard but they have brought up previous journeys saying they don't think I had any valid tickets traveling from 2020.

Could you upload redacted copies of both letters, and give some detail about the sort of journeys they have flagged up?

 

[Nahtashajones]

Could you upload redacted copies of both letters, and give some detail about the sort of journeys they have flagged up?

Absolutely, my letter I got, the email I got today and with the spreadsheet they sent me.

The only thing I can think of is because I traveled to Birmingham quite a lot but then would get a taxi/lift back due to gigs finishing way after the last train back to Solihull.

 

[AlterEgo]

The railcard terms and conditions explain that you are entitled to essentially forget it once, and have any excess fare or penalty fare refunded. This should, in spirit, translate to a threat of prosecution, so you should provide proof of railcard by reply, quote that policy, and say that you trust that closes the case. https://www.16-25railcard.co.uk/hel...ve-to-buy-a-new-ticket-or-pay-a-penalty-fare/

Don’t be drawn on the other refunds. If they’re legitimate, simply say so and don’t elaborate.

 

[Haywain]

This should, in spirit, translate to a threat of prosecution,

There's a 'not' missing somewhere, I think!

 

[dciuk]

The railcard terms and conditions explain that you are entitled to essentially forget it once, and have any excess fare or penalty fare refunded. This should, in spirit, translate to a threat of prosecution, so you should provide proof of railcard by reply, quote that policy, and say that you trust that closes the case. https://www.16-25railcard.co.uk/hel...ve-to-buy-a-new-ticket-or-pay-a-penalty-fare/

Don’t be drawn on the other refunds. If they’re legitimate, simply say so and don’t elaborate.

That link applies to the 16-25 railcard and the OP advises they had a 26-30 railcard, although I think the forgotten railcard policy covers all railcards

 

[30907]

The railcard terms and conditions explain that you are entitled to essentially forget it once, and have any excess fare or penalty fare refunded. This should, in spirit, translate to a threat of prosecution, so you should provide proof of railcard by reply, quote that policy, and say that you trust that closes the case. https://www.16-25railcard.co.uk/hel...ve-to-buy-a-new-ticket-or-pay-a-penalty-fare/

Don’t be drawn on the other refunds. If they’re legitimate, simply say so and don’t elaborate.

If you wanted to be seen to cooperate you could confirm that you held a rail card at the relevant times but no longer have details.

Assuming that you live near Solihull, I can't see that they have evidence of short faring.

 

[Western Sunset]

The railcard terms and conditions explain that you are entitled to essentially forget it once, and have any excess fare or penalty fare refunded. This should, in spirit, translate to a threat of prosecution, so you should provide proof of railcard by reply, quote that policy, and say that you trust that closes the case. https://www.16-25railcard.co.uk/hel...ve-to-buy-a-new-ticket-or-pay-a-penalty-fare/

Don’t be drawn on the other refunds. If they’re legitimate, simply say so and don’t elaborate.

Totally agree with that approach.

 

[AlterEgo]

Also to add - and not that the OP needs to elaborate on them - the refunds don't really look suspicious. It's just a list of refunds the passenger has made, one of which was refunded before the date of travel, and accounts for a minority of the tickets they buy. Quite a normal pattern of refunds in my view.

 

[All Line Rover]

On what basis did rail ticket retailers disclose the OP's personal data and purchasing history to Chiltern? Article 6(1)(d) of the GDPR, which Chiltern quotes, refers to "vital interests", which is narrowly defined.

Per the ICO's guidance:

"vital interests are intended to cover only interests that are essential for someone’s life. So this lawful basis is very limited in its scope, and generally only applies to matters of life and death."

Vital interests

ico.org.uk

The right to make a Data Subject Access Request for personal data is the right of the *data subject*. The only situation in which a third party may request a data subject's personal data is when doing so on the data subject's behalf and with the data subject's consent.

Is this yet another case of the rail industry blatantly disregarding passengers' data protection rights?

 

[Haywain]

On what basis did rail ticket retailers disclose the OP's personal data and purchasing history to Chiltern?

The prevention and detection of crime is the usual basis.

 

[island]

On what basis did rail ticket retailers disclose the OP's personal data and purchasing history to Chiltern? Article 6(1)(d) of the GDPR, which Chiltern quotes, refers to "vital interests", which is narrowly defined.

Per the ICO's guidance:

"vital interests are intended to cover only interests that are essential for someone’s life. So this lawful basis is very limited in its scope, and generally only applies to matters of life and death."

Indeed. 6 (1) (d) is clearly not relevant here. However, ICO enforcement is close to non-existent.