Railcard not arrived, reported

[daisies]

Hi!
I got the train from Sheffield to Manchester Piccadilly and used my newly renewed 16-25 railcard discount. However my railcard is a physical card and it didn’t arrive in time like I thought it would when I bought the tickets. In the past when I’ve forgotten my railcard I have used the confirmation email to show that I do have a valid railcard and that has been fine. However this time I was taken aside and not explained what was happening until I asked why the man needed to know lots of details about me. I was then told I’d get a letter but not what the letter was really about other than it will say penalty fare. Then googling it now I’m learning I may have to pay £100 (which was never told to me) even though it was a valid ticket?
Just need a bit of advice because the letter is going to an address I don’t live at full time so I won’t know what it says or what I can do to appeal it until a few weeks!

 

[AlterEgo]

What date did you purchase the railcard, and what date did you travel?

How many times in the past, and when exactly, have you invoked the forgotten railcard policy?

 

[jfollows]

No, a Penalty Fare is issued at the time, not subequently.
You will get a letter asking for your explanation and if your railcard has arrived and if it was valid at the time you were stopped you should be able to send this. However you should note that you can only claim the forgotten railcard exemption once every 12 months.

In order to claim such a refund, you will need to contact the customer service department of the Train Company that charged you the additional fare or Penalty Fare, providing the full details of your Railcard, together with the additional Tickets you have purchased or any Penalty Fares notices. A maximum of one such claim will be considered in any 12-month period.

See https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e...3/National_Rail_Conditions_of_Travel_2024.pdf

 

[daisies]

What date did you purchase the railcard, and what date did you travel?

How many times in the past, and when exactly, have you invoked the forgotten railcard policy?

Hi, I bought the railcard on 24th October and I traveled on the 1st November.
It was just a few times in the past year when I’ve left my railcard somewhere, and the ticket people on the train have said that’s fine I’ll accept that email confirmation.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Nov 2025 ==

No, a Penalty Fare is issued at the time, not subequently.
You will get a letter asking for your explanation and if your railcard has arrived and if it was valid at the time you were stopped you should be able to send this. However you should note that you can only claim the forgotten railcard exemption once every 12 months.

See https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e...3/National_Rail_Conditions_of_Travel_2024.pdf

Hi, yeah he really did not want to explain to me what was going on haha just that I’d have a penalty letter sent to me at some point and it would say what’s happened and what to do!
He just gave me a travel incident report at the time and made me sign it.
This is perfect thank you!

 

[AlterEgo]

Hi, I bought the railcard on 24th October and I traveled on the 1st November.
It was just a few times in the past year when I’ve left my railcard somewhere, and the ticket people on the train have said that’s fine I’ll accept that email confirmation.

Have you ever been penalty fared or your details taken?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Once the Railcard arrives, assuming it is valid for the date you travelled, appeal the Penalty Fare stating that you wish to invoke the forgotten Railcard ground, as long as you haven't used it formally before (guards letting you off don't count). The appeal should succeed provided you haven't used that ground for appeal in the last year. If it doesn't, it's because they haven't read it properly, in that case appeal it twice more and it should be accepted on the third one as that has a human check it.

If it's not a Penalty Fare so you get a letter saying to explain, do so including a copy of the Railcard - I don't think I'd specifically complicate it by saying why you didn't have it with you, just that you didn't. That should generally result in it being dropped unless you've used the "get-out" before.

 

[daisies]

Have you ever been penalty fared or your details taken?

No, which is why I was so confused why I was giving my details out, I thought it was because he could get my railcard up digitally or something!

 

[AlterEgo]

Once the Railcard arrives, assuming it is valid for the date you travelled, appeal the Penalty Fare stating that you wish to invoke the forgotten Railcard ground, as long as you haven't used it formally before (guards letting you off don't count). The appeal should succeed provided you haven't used that ground for appeal in the last year. If it doesn't, it's because they haven't read it properly, in that case appeal it twice more and it should be accepted on the third one as that has a human check it.

The OP hasn't been penalty fared; they have been reported for prosecution.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The OP hasn't been penalty fared; they have been reported for prosecution.

Sorry, yes, post edited before you read it I think.

 

[daisies]

Once the Railcard arrives, assuming it is valid for the date you travelled, appeal the Penalty Fare stating that you wish to invoke the forgotten Railcard ground, as long as you haven't used it formally before (guards letting you off don't count). The appeal should succeed provided you haven't used that ground for appeal in the last year. If it doesn't, it's because they haven't read it properly, in that case appeal it twice more and it should be accepted on the third one as that has a human check it.

If it's not a Penalty Fare so you get a letter saying to explain, do so including a copy of the Railcard - I don't think I'd specifically complicate it by saying why you didn't have it with you, just that you didn't. That should generally result in it being dropped unless you've used the "get-out" before.

Hi thank you, I guess I’ll have to see what the letter is actually about and go from there? is there a certain amount of time you have to appeal?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Hi thank you, I guess I’ll have to see what the letter is actually about and go from there? is there a certain amount of time you have to appeal?

Best approach is to post a redacted copy of the letter here (no personal details nor reference numbers) when it arrives and people will advise more specifically. It might take a bit to arrive though.

 

[daisies]

Best approach is to post a redacted copy of the letter here (no personal details nor reference numbers) when it arrives and people will advise more specifically. It might take a bit to arrive though.

Thank you for the help, I’ll wait for the letter!

 

[jfollows]

You may want to change the title of this thread to reduce confusion.

 

[WesternLancer]

Just need a bit of advice because the letter is going to an address I don’t live at full time so I won’t know what it says or what I can do to appeal it until a few weeks!

The most important thing is that you get this letter in order to reply to it (and indeed receive the Railcard in the post) - so if you are not there full time can you ask someone to look out for the post for you?

You usually need to respond to these letters in 14 days from the date they posted it it to you and you will need to reply with a copy of the Railcard that hopefully you will have by then.

When you get your Railcard in the post take a picture / scan of it because if you loose it by bad luck before they write to you it will make it more complicated to resolve all this easily (hopefully nothing like that will happen though)

For future ref I have a hard copy Railcard but I get it from a ticket office counter to avoid the problem like this of it being in the post - but I realise that is not an option for everyone or every sort of Railcard. It does mean you can get it on the day of travel which kind of increases the validity by a few days.

It sounds like in the past you have just been lucky with staff who have been happy to accept the e-mail confirmation you have shown for the sake of an easy solution, but that's not what the rules should say should happen so I guess you were asked to show it by a staff member who was taking a firmer line on the rules.

 

[daisies]

The most important thing is that you get this letter in order to reply to it (and indeed receive the Railcard in the post) - so if you are not there full time can you ask someone to look out for the post for you?

You usually need to respond to these letters in 14 days from the date they posted it it to you and you will need to reply with a copy of the Railcard that hopefully you will have by then.

When you get your Railcard in the post take a picture / scan of it because if you loose it by bad luck before they write to you it will make it more complicated to resolve all this easily (hopefully nothing like that will happen though)

For future ref I have a hard copy Railcard but I get it from a ticket office counter to avoid the problem like this of it being in the post - but I realise that is not an option for everyone or every sort of Railcard. It does mean you can get it on the day of travel which kind of increases the validity by a few days.

It sounds like in the past you have just been lucky with staff who have been happy to accept the e-mail confirmation you have shown for the sake of an easy solution, but that's not what the rules should say should happen so I guess you were asked to show it by a staff member who was taking a firmer line on the rules.

Yes I’ve asked for someone to open my letters that arrive to check for this one!
I had no idea you could get railcards in person that would’ve saved some hassle, this is my last year needing one thankfully!
Yeah I think probs they need to standardise it all either you accept the confirmation of owning a railcard or you don’t as it ultimately led to all this happening with me!



Thank you whoever changed the name of the thread, I don’t know how to work the website!

 

[WesternLancer]

Yes I’ve asked for someone to open my letters that arrive to check for this one!

Good stuff

I had no idea you could get railcards in person that would’ve saved some hassle, this is my last year needing one thankfully!

A very few you can not get in person (eg Disabled Persons Railcard) - FWIW you can buy most things like tickets / Railcards / Season tickets etc at a staffed ticket office over the counter (even Advanced purchase discounted tickets - in the vast majority of cases the ticket office staff are accessing the same resource as is offered on line) should you ever need to know that in future.

Yeah I think probs they need to standardise it all either you accept the confirmation of owning a railcard or you don’t as it ultimately led to all this happening with me!

I know what you mean but sometimes best to be careful what you wish for as they have a habit of standardising things on the least 'passenger friendly' option....but I agree it can be confusing.

 

[island]

Just to note the Railcard FAQs say to allow 10 days for delivery. I know too late now but for others reading if you need a Railcard promptly it may be best to purchase one digitally.

 

[daisies]

Good stuff

A very few you can not get in person (eg Disabled Persons Railcard) - FWIW you can buy most things like tickets / Railcards / Season tickets etc at a staffed ticket office over the counter (even Advanced purchase discounted tickets - in the vast majority of cases the ticket office staff are accessing the same resource as is offered on line) should you ever need to know that in future.


I know what you mean but sometimes best to be careful what you wish for as they have a habit of standardising things on the least 'passenger friendly' option....but I agree it can be confusing.

Oh yes I totally get that unfortunately for us passengers!
Thanks for the tips they’re really useful!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Nov 2025 ==

Just to note the Railcard FAQs say to allow 10 days for delivery. I know too late now but for others reading if you need a Railcard promptly it may be best to purchase one digitally.

Yeah and for those like me that are unable to get a digital railcard I’d suggest a few weeks or even like a month before your railcard runs out renewing it so you know you’ll have every day possible covered if the post doesn’t go your way!

 

[chrisjo]

Just to note the Railcard FAQs say to allow 10 days for delivery.

The Ts&Cs are clear that you can not use a physical railcard until you have received and signed it, so I'm not sure what the grounds for any appeal might be. The 'Forgotten Railcard' avenue would not appear to be relevant in this case?

 

[WesternLancer]

The Ts&Cs are clear that you can not use a physical railcard until you have received and signed it, so I'm not sure what the grounds for any appeal might be. The 'Forgotten Railcard' avenue would not appear to be relevant in this case?

Well in reality the railway company are not going to know if the railcard had been received and forgotten or not received I don’t suppose.
Just a question of carefully wording the response in my view.

Eg ‘here is the railcard I purchased on x date. When I travelled on y date I apologise I was unable to show it when requested’.

 

[daisies]

The Ts&Cs are clear that you can not use a physical railcard until you have received and signed it, so I'm not sure what the grounds for any appeal might be. The 'Forgotten Railcard' avenue would not appear to be relevant in this case?

Hi so basically I booked the train tickets thinking I would receive my railcard in time but didn’t so yes it may say that but when I believed to have a railcard by then I didn’t think much of it annoyingly! Also ticket officers before hand like previously mentioned have never bothered when I’ve shown proof that I own one so I was expecting that to happen if anything but just unfortunate they all are a bit different!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Nov 2025 ==

Well in reality the railway company are not going to know if the railcard had been received and forgotten or not received I don’t suppose.
Just a question of carefully wording the response in my view.

Eg ‘here is the railcard I purchased on x date. When I travelled on y date I apologise I was unable to show it when requested’.

Yeah exactly that, I’ll see what my best option is and then put that in the appeal, just as it isn’t a simple case of I forgot it it’s that it hadn’t arrived, I don’t want them to ask why I’ve changed stories or something!

 

[SussexMan]

When I have bought physical railcards online, they have invariably arrived and it has worked out that you get up to 370 days validity (give or take). However, if the railcard that the OP receives says it expires on the 2nd Nov 2026, might this cause an issue if the TOC says, well it wasn't valid until the 3rd Nov 2025? Do railcards have a valid from date or a purchase date coded into them?

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi so basically I booked the train tickets thinking I would receive my railcard in time but didn’t so yes it may say that but when I believed to have a railcard by then I didn’t think much of it annoyingly! Also ticket officers before hand like previously mentioned have never bothered when I’ve shown proof that I own one so I was expecting that to happen if anything but just unfortunate they all are a bit different!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Nov 2025 ==


Yeah exactly that, I’ll see what my best option is and then put that in the appeal, just as it isn’t a simple case of I forgot it it’s that it hadn’t arrived, I don’t want them to ask why I’ve changed stories or something!

Just to clarify.

You can buy a ticket before you buy or have a railcard. You are just required to be able to show the railcard on the journey concerned. So you could buy a railcard discounted ticket three months ahead of travelling, but buy the railcard on the day before boarding the train if you desired. So long as you have it to show on demand.

You won’t be making an appeal because you won’t be getting a letter with a fine in it.

You’ll most likely get a letter accusing you of travel without a valid ticket because you could not show a valid railcard when asked and asking for your side of the story.

My view is they will likely take no further action if you can show you had bought and paid for your Railcard before the travel concerned.

Which train company did this involve, can you recall? There are three that run trains between Sheffield and Manchester. Do you know which operator you were travelling with?

When you get the letter from them (I assume they took your name and address)? Head back here for help in drafting what you want to say in reply.

 

[Haywain]

even though it was a valid ticket?

I'm afraid that if you were unable to show the railcard the ticket was not valid.

 

[AlterEgo]

Do railcards have a valid from date or a purchase date coded into them?

There is no valid from date on any railcard except HM Forces.

 

[daisies]

When I have bought physical railcards online, they have invariably arrived and it has worked out that you get up to 370 days validity (give or take). However, if the railcard that the OP receives says it expires on the 2nd Nov 2026, might this cause an issue if the TOC says, well it wasn't valid until the 3rd Nov 2025? Do railcards have a valid from date or a purchase date coded into them?

Hi yeah I’ve had 2 previously and they just say the expiry date on the card, once you buy a railcard that’s the start date I assume?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Nov 2025 ==

Just to clarify.

You can buy a ticket before you buy or have a railcard. You are just required to be able to show the railcard on the journey concerned. So you could buy a railcard discounted ticket three months ahead of travelling, but buy the railcard on the day before boarding the train if you desired. So long as you have it to show on demand.

You won’t be making an appeal because you won’t be getting a letter with a fine in it.

You’ll most likely get a letter accusing you of travel without a valid ticket because you could not show a valid railcard when asked and asking for your side of the story.

My view is they will likely take no further action if you can show you had bought and paid for your Railcard before the travel concerned.

Which train company did this involve, can you recall? There are three that run trains between Sheffield and Manchester. Do you know which operator you were travelling with?

When you get the letter from them (I assume they took your name and address)? Head back here for help in drafting what you want to say in reply.

Hi
Yeah I wasn’t spoken to about what was going on at all I actually had to ask why my address was necessary and that’s when I saw the form he was filling out said offence, so I just wanted to know what this letter said really because I’m completely unaware of the extent of this situation!
The travel incident report is from northern but I think my actual train was an EMR one if that helps at all sorry I’m not too sure!?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Nov 2025 ==

I'm afraid that if you were unable to show the railcard the ticket was not valid.

Hi, I showed confirmation of purchasing a railcard which I have done a few times in the past and there’s been no problems as it was proof of owning one and wasn’t like I just hoped I’d get away with it. If you had experienced this you’d have thought like me that showing this email would be fine on this occasion too, even more so since it wasn’t just a forgetting it it actually hadn’t been delivered yet which was somewhat out of my control.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi
Yeah I wasn’t spoken to about what was going on at all I actually had to ask why my address was necessary and that’s when I saw the form he was filling out said offence, so I just wanted to know what this letter said really because I’m completely unaware of the extent of this situation!
The travel incident report is from northern but I think my actual train was an EMR one if that helps at all sorry I’m not too sure!?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Nov 2025 ==

I don't think it makes a big difference which train company it was but they do tend to have slightly different approaches to ticket enforcement back office stuff so can potentially affect what happens next or the outcome. For example sometimes Northern just send out a letter demanding a sum of money that they call a 'Fixed Penalty Notice' or some such wording (eg £100) which you may not have to pay. I don't think EMR do things the same way.

Some questions:

a) If you were given a slip of paper or some such does that say Northern? If that is what you have and it says Northern on it then it will be Northern who write to you irrespective of who operated the train you were on.

Can you upload a copy of anything you were given (make sure to block out your name or any ref number that may be on it that could identify you)

b) Were you given this on the train or on the platform / ticket barrier line?

c) Can you recall the colour of the train or maybe the colour of the seats inside? That would help us know if it is Northern or EMR (other trains on that route are operated by Trans Pennine Express - usually painted silver and light blue)

Sorry for all the questions

When you hear from a railway company about this head back here straight away for help with your reply - ie before you reply to them.

 

[daisies]

I don't think it makes a big difference which train company it was but they do tend to have slightly different approaches to ticket enforcement back office stuff so can potentially affect what happens next or the outcome. For example sometimes Northern just send out a letter demanding a sum of money that they call a 'Fixed Penalty Notice' or some such wording (eg £100) which you may not have to pay. I don't think EMR do things the same way.

Some questions:

a) If you were given a slip of paper or some such does that say Northern? If that is what you have and it says Northern on it then it will be Northern who write to you irrespective of who operated the train you were on.

Can you upload a copy of anything you were given (make sure to block out your name or any ref number that may be on it that could identify you)

b) Were you given this on the train or on the platform / ticket barrier line?

c) Can you recall the colour of the train or maybe the colour of the seats inside? That would help us know if it is Northern or EMR (other trains on that route are operated by Trans Pennine Express - usually painted silver and light blue)

Sorry for all the questions

When you hear from a railway company about this head back here straight away for help with your reply - ie before you reply to them.

A) the travel incident report says northern above it yes but it wasn’t a northern train I was on so I wasn’t too sure who was sending me a letter.
B) the lady on the train had no issues with my email confirmation it was the man as I was leaving the platform area of the station who took me aside.
C) I actually didn’t get to my seat on the train and sat next to the toilets and I can’t remember what the train looked like sorry. The man confused me at the time as I thought it was an EMR train but he kept confusing me and made me think it wasn’t? Was quite an odd encounter!
Don’t worry about the questions I asked for advice!

 

[WesternLancer]

A) the travel incident report says northern above it yes but it wasn’t a northern train I was on so I wasn’t too sure who was sending me a letter.

OK so it will be Northern I am almost certain of that, who will be writing to you - it might be some weeks before they write

B) the lady on the train had no issues with my email confirmation it was the man as I was leaving the platform area of the station who took me aside.

So it was this man at Manchester who issued the paper to you? They would be Northern Trains barrier line or revenue staff as they staff that station.

Technically it could be argued that the train staff member gave you what is called 'authority to travel' using your ticket and e-mail confirmation. But the problem with that is that it is hard to prove because you presumably have no proof of what she said and did not give you any written authority (eg wrote anything on your ticket to say it was valid if it was a paper ticket)

C) I actually didn’t get to my seat on the train and sat next to the toilets and I can’t remember what the train looked like sorry. The man confused me at the time as I thought it was an EMR train but he kept confusing me and made me think it wasn’t? Was quite an odd encounter!
Don’t worry about the questions I asked for advice!

It doesn't mater that much but if you can state the time and date of the train then we can tell you who operated it - I should have thought of that before I asked about what it looked like

(depending on what they write to you it might be potentially useful to be able to say for example 'that the staff member on the xx.xx time train from Sheffield to Manchester on yy date who checked your ticket indicated that the e-mail confirmation shown of the Railcard purchase was acceptable to her for your travel' and that therefore you believed you had authority to travel from a member of railway staff using this ticket)

 

[daisies]

OK so it will be Northern I am almost certain of that, who will be writing to you - it might be some weeks before they write

So it was this man at Manchester who issued the paper to you? They would be Northern Trains barrier line or revenue staff as they staff that station.

Technically it could be argued that the train staff member gave you what is called 'authority to travel' using your ticket and e-mail confirmation. But the problem with that is that it is hard to prove because you presumably have no proof of what she said and did not give you any written authority (eg wrote anything on your ticket to say it was valid if it was a paper ticket)


It doesn't mater that much but if you can state the time and date of the train then we can tell you who operated it - I should have thought of that before I asked about what it looked like

(depending on what they write to you it might be potentially useful to be able to say for example 'that the staff member on the xx.xx time train from Sheffield to Manchester on yy date who checked your ticket indicated that the e-mail confirmation shown of the Railcard purchase was acceptable to her for your travel' and that therefore you believed you had authority to travel from a member of railway staff using this ticket)

Yeah she didn’t give me anything but I see where you’re coming from there.
The train was 4:11-5:05 Sheffield to Manchester Piccadilly on the 1st November.
So it’s not unusual if I don’t get a letter until the end of the month for example? Just so I know a rough time of when this letter may arrive! It was made out at the time to me I’d get a letter within days but it seems that is definitely not the case!