WesleyC
New Member
Hi everyone,
I've had a valid Railcard every year since 2015, and have never had any warnings or issues or fines with any train company or TFL in any way ever. I was stopped at London Waterloo last December, and it turned out that my Railcard had lapsed about 4 weeks prior. I didn't know this, I've since checked and had no email notification about it lapsing, the Railcard is always in the app that I use to buy train tickets automatically, so I thought it wouldn't be an issue. I'm still entitled to have a Railcard due to my age, I offered to pay there and then, but I had to give my details.
About a month ago I received a letter from SWR about the incident. I contacted them straight away via email as requested, we've had some back and forth which has all been very professional. I've been following the great advice on this forum (thank you everyone for your selflessness helping so many people on here!), I've filled out a spreadsheet they sent me going back about 4 years I believe. I've apologised for not having the valid Railcard, made no excuses, and have been as compliant as possible. I think I took 6 trips on the expired Railcard accidentally before the guard stopped me at Waterloo, but again I take responsibility for this.
A few new journeys going back years have now been flagged by the SWR investigator since I filled out and returned the spreadsheet. They are what I believe are called "Short Fares". I don't have a set office, my home train station of Sunningdale doesn't have any barriers at all, I travel to a different destination in London nearly daily. I can't recall all the trips, I could make the excuse that these allegedly "false" origin stations were in the app automatically from a previous journey, or I pressed the wrong button, etc etc, but I have no interest in dragging this out any further. The investigator emailed me saying:
"No entry or exit data exists for entry or exit at stations at times, when ticket barriers and CCTV were operational, suggesting that you may have travelled from a station further than what has been stated. In order for me to consider recommending an out-of-court settlement to resolve and close this matter, I require a full and truthful account of where each of these journeys started and finished on the provided spreadsheet. Please provide this information for the journeys listed on lines: X to X (The investigator gives the lines on the spreadsheet for me to confirm) by completing Column X and X.
If we received the information requested and your journeys were different from the tickets that were purchased, you would be required to pay the difference of what you should have paid originally, and once this payment is received, this matter would be closed. It remains our hope that this matter can be resolved."
This is great news that they want to settle still, so I have filled out the spreadsheet again, and put in the rows requested my home station as the origin station, and the final destination of London Waterloo as the destination station each time, unless the journey was the inverse, in which case I've filled the destinations out vice versa. My ideal aim is to have this paid and finalised asap. I could argue that the barriers were often open as they are, or that I was beeped through by a guard as I often am when I show them my ticket, but I do not want to cause any more hassle or delays. One journey they've flagged doesn't make sense especially, but again I don't want to escalate anything even if I'm in the right. I would love to pay whatever fine and to close this asap.
My worry is that by now being compliant here, and basically saying "Just charge me full price for all these ambiguous journeys between my home address and London going back years" into each row, I'm leaving myself open for them to rescind their offer of a settlement, and to proceed with a prosecution, with them now potentially saying "Ok you've admitted short faring now, see you in court". Maybe I'm overthinking it, but I would really appreciate some insights and opinions on what to do next. I've drafted the following reply below, which I haven't sent to SWR yet:
"Dear X,
Thank you for your email. Please find attached the updated spreadsheet with Columns X and X completed for the journeys and dates requested.
As I live in X and typically travel between X and London for work, I have completed these fields based on what I believe to be the most likely origin and destination of my journeys. As many of these journeys date back years, I am unable to recall the exact details of each individual journey, but I have done my best to provide a reasonable and honest account based on the information available.
I understand that where the journey undertaken is different from the ticket purchased, the appropriate difference in fare would be payable, and I am willing to do so in order to resolve this matter as quickly as possible.
Thank you again for your patience and assistance.
Warm regards,
X"
Thank you in advance for any replies or advice. Can they check CCTV for trips made in the past in court or elsewhere? My drafted reply might not be correct, and I might be overthinking it, I just want to settle this as soon as possible. If this is short faring and I should've ensured all tickets are scanned and I've made that mistake, then I want to rectify it by paying asap out of court. From everything I've read and seen in my case, it seems that train companies also want to settle as soon as possible, but I don't want to leave myself open to further problems, or for them to now prosecute. Cheers!
I've had a valid Railcard every year since 2015, and have never had any warnings or issues or fines with any train company or TFL in any way ever. I was stopped at London Waterloo last December, and it turned out that my Railcard had lapsed about 4 weeks prior. I didn't know this, I've since checked and had no email notification about it lapsing, the Railcard is always in the app that I use to buy train tickets automatically, so I thought it wouldn't be an issue. I'm still entitled to have a Railcard due to my age, I offered to pay there and then, but I had to give my details.
About a month ago I received a letter from SWR about the incident. I contacted them straight away via email as requested, we've had some back and forth which has all been very professional. I've been following the great advice on this forum (thank you everyone for your selflessness helping so many people on here!), I've filled out a spreadsheet they sent me going back about 4 years I believe. I've apologised for not having the valid Railcard, made no excuses, and have been as compliant as possible. I think I took 6 trips on the expired Railcard accidentally before the guard stopped me at Waterloo, but again I take responsibility for this.
A few new journeys going back years have now been flagged by the SWR investigator since I filled out and returned the spreadsheet. They are what I believe are called "Short Fares". I don't have a set office, my home train station of Sunningdale doesn't have any barriers at all, I travel to a different destination in London nearly daily. I can't recall all the trips, I could make the excuse that these allegedly "false" origin stations were in the app automatically from a previous journey, or I pressed the wrong button, etc etc, but I have no interest in dragging this out any further. The investigator emailed me saying:
"No entry or exit data exists for entry or exit at stations at times, when ticket barriers and CCTV were operational, suggesting that you may have travelled from a station further than what has been stated. In order for me to consider recommending an out-of-court settlement to resolve and close this matter, I require a full and truthful account of where each of these journeys started and finished on the provided spreadsheet. Please provide this information for the journeys listed on lines: X to X (The investigator gives the lines on the spreadsheet for me to confirm) by completing Column X and X.
If we received the information requested and your journeys were different from the tickets that were purchased, you would be required to pay the difference of what you should have paid originally, and once this payment is received, this matter would be closed. It remains our hope that this matter can be resolved."
This is great news that they want to settle still, so I have filled out the spreadsheet again, and put in the rows requested my home station as the origin station, and the final destination of London Waterloo as the destination station each time, unless the journey was the inverse, in which case I've filled the destinations out vice versa. My ideal aim is to have this paid and finalised asap. I could argue that the barriers were often open as they are, or that I was beeped through by a guard as I often am when I show them my ticket, but I do not want to cause any more hassle or delays. One journey they've flagged doesn't make sense especially, but again I don't want to escalate anything even if I'm in the right. I would love to pay whatever fine and to close this asap.
My worry is that by now being compliant here, and basically saying "Just charge me full price for all these ambiguous journeys between my home address and London going back years" into each row, I'm leaving myself open for them to rescind their offer of a settlement, and to proceed with a prosecution, with them now potentially saying "Ok you've admitted short faring now, see you in court". Maybe I'm overthinking it, but I would really appreciate some insights and opinions on what to do next. I've drafted the following reply below, which I haven't sent to SWR yet:
"Dear X,
Thank you for your email. Please find attached the updated spreadsheet with Columns X and X completed for the journeys and dates requested.
As I live in X and typically travel between X and London for work, I have completed these fields based on what I believe to be the most likely origin and destination of my journeys. As many of these journeys date back years, I am unable to recall the exact details of each individual journey, but I have done my best to provide a reasonable and honest account based on the information available.
I understand that where the journey undertaken is different from the ticket purchased, the appropriate difference in fare would be payable, and I am willing to do so in order to resolve this matter as quickly as possible.
Thank you again for your patience and assistance.
Warm regards,
X"
Thank you in advance for any replies or advice. Can they check CCTV for trips made in the past in court or elsewhere? My drafted reply might not be correct, and I might be overthinking it, I just want to settle this as soon as possible. If this is short faring and I should've ensured all tickets are scanned and I've made that mistake, then I want to rectify it by paying asap out of court. From everything I've read and seen in my case, it seems that train companies also want to settle as soon as possible, but I don't want to leave myself open to further problems, or for them to now prosecute. Cheers!
