Railcard dropped onto track - will she have got it back?

[cuccir]

Hello all, probably a fairly quick thread but something which I've been wondering about:

I saw a woman drop her railcard wallet with all her tickets onto the track between an East Coast HST and the southbound platform at Durham station yesterday. As the train - which I boarded - was pulling away, she had returned with a member of the barrier-staff and was pointing at the (clearly visible) cards and tickets.

Anyway, I was just wondering if staff would have been able to retain the wallet, on the basis that they could inform the correct people that they were going to go onto the track, or will it be lost forever?

 

[northwichcat]

Given the weather did she actually drop them on to the track or did she drop them on the platform and they blew on to the track?

 

[driver9000]

Retrieving items dropped onto the track is a relatively straight forward thing to do for station staff. A litter picker can be used to grab most small items without the need to go onto the track.

 

[142094]

Quite tricky to get something as small as a railcard back from the track without actually going on to it. Someone dropped their bag at York and the platform staff used one of the litter grabbers the cleaners have to get it back.

 

[Yew]

I'm guessing they would need to let the signallers either side of the platform know, and be pts trained?

Or issue a zero fare ticket, and post tv railcard to her when it can be retrieved safely?


Hopefully a railway guy will be here soon to help you out.




Then again, it it was lymington spa, just ignore all that because the station master will just jump on the track

 

[AlterEgo]

Then again, it it was lymington spa, just ignore all that because the station master will just jump on the track

I think you mean Lymington Town!

Leamington Spa is a totally different place!

 

[cuccir]

Given the weather did she actually drop them on to the track or did she drop them on the platform and they blew on to the track?

It happened quite quickly but she was leaving the train and dropped them (aso, it wasn't remarkably windy in Durham at the time)- I think they fell down between train and platform. Its an occasional concern I've had but not something I ever actually expected to see!

 

[fairysdad]

Given the weather did she actually drop them on to the track or did she drop them on the platform and they blew on to the track?

Does that actually matter? If anything, I'd have thought that if they blew onto the track that's 'better' than if she dropped them onto the track as it meant she wouldn't have been near the platform edge.

 

[driver9000]

I'm guessing they would need to let the signallers either side of the platform know, and be pts trained?

The Rulebook module which covers Station duties doesn't actually make a reference to PTS although it does contain an instruction that you must only go onto the line if you have been trained to do at the location concerned.

You are correct in saying that staff must inform the controlling signal box if they need to go onto the line and then tell them once clear of the line again. Like I said in my earlier post though, most small items can be retrieved without going onto the line using a grabber or litter picker from the platform.

 

[northwichcat]

Does that actually matter? If anything, I'd have thought that if they blew onto the track that's 'better' than if she dropped them onto the track as it meant she wouldn't have been near the platform edge.

I would imagine staff would be more sympathetic to someone dropping something on the platform and it blowing on to the track.

 

[12CSVT]

Retrieving items dropped onto the track is a relatively straight forward thing to do for station staff. A litter picker can be used to grab most small items without the need to go onto the track.

Depends if they have been trained. Some TOCs specify that only PTS trained staff are allowed to do this. The TOC I work for has a 'Work Safe' policy (an agreement with the unions) in which staff have the right to refuse to carry out any task they believe is either unsafe or haven't been trained to do.

 

[driver9000]

Depends if they have been trained. Some TOCs specify that only PTS trained staff are allowed to do this. The TOC I work for has a 'Work Safe' policy (an agreement with the unions) in which staff have the right to refuse to carry out any task they believe is either unsafe or haven't been trained to do.

I had assumed the station staff hadn't needed to go onto the line to retrieve the wallet. When someone asked about going onto the line I did mention that they could only go onto the line if they were trained to do so

 

[Clip]

Depends if they have been trained. Some TOCs specify that only PTS trained staff are allowed to do this. The TOC I work for has a 'Work Safe' policy (an agreement with the unions) in which staff have the right to refuse to carry out any task they believe is either unsafe or haven't been trained to do.

All TOCs and even NR have this agreement as far as im aware - the same as most work places that are dangerous.

Plus they wont have to go on the line should a litter picker suffice and they know a train is not approaching and they have someone who is just there as a look out for them just in case. But it shouldn't take more then 2 seconds to grab it and haul it up.

 

[Buttsy]

I knocked my season ticket out of my hand one day at Oxford and it dropped between the train and the platform edge (I had scurried on to the platform as it was the train I wanted). I raised this with a staff member and he said he'd sort when the train had gone. I expressed disappointment as I was hoping to catch the train and stood back to wait for it to move off. Seconds later, he comes over with a litter picker, checks the signalling and then picks it up for me gaining my profuse thanks for his help in the matter as I jumped onto the train.

 

[Bon Accord]

The TOC I work for has a 'Work Safe' policy (an agreement with the unions) in which staff have the right to refuse to carry out any task they believe is either unsafe or haven't been trained to do.

As far as I'm aware the right to refuse unsafe work is actually enshrined in the Health & Safety at Work Act 1974 and its subsequent amendments, therefore every working man in the UK has such a right, Union/TOC approval or not.

 

[DarloRich]

As far as I'm aware the right to refuse unsafe work is actually enshrined in the Health & Safety at Work Act 1974 and its subsequent amendments, therefore every working man in the UK has such a right, Union/TOC approval or not.

It is - However but the work safe policy is a quicker way of stopping a job, discussing the problem, and hopefully sorting it out. If not it then follows the formal route

 

[Old Timer]

As far as I'm aware the right to refuse unsafe work is actually enshrined in the Health & Safety at Work Act 1974 and its subsequent amendments, therefore every working man in the UK has such a right, Union/TOC approval or not.

The HASAWA 1974 section 7 (a) places a duty upon every employee to co-operate with their employer in maintaining health and safety. 7(b) places a duty upon an employee not to interfere ith equipment, etc, etc.

There is no specific right to refuse an instruction, as this was regarded as an employment not a safety matter. After all who would be so stupid as to demand that an employee would work in an unsafe manner was the thinking.

Sadly they failed to recognise the number of sheer cowboys and cowboy companies out there who actively look for ways to circumvent Legislation.

The sad fact is that such Companies have become more visible these days in competition with the major Infrastructure Contractors. It would be imprudent of me to say anything further, other than these Companies get work and continue to thrive.

 

[michael769]

Sadly they failed to recognise the number of sheer cowboys and cowboy companies out there who actively look for ways to circumvent Legislation.

That right exists in common law: dismissal due to the refusal to comply with an instruction which would cause avoidable or undue danger is automatically unfair dismissal (which means the onus is placed on the employer to prove that the dismissal is not unfair).

http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?itemId=1073793717&type=RESOURCES

 

[W-on-Sea]

Hmm, earlier this year a friend managed to drop a book onto the track at a station immediately after getting off a train (in 3rd rail land at that). No station staff present, but two BTP officers there- one told him he *shouldn't* go down to the track to get it back, but then added that they were leaving right away and couldn't see what he did after they left (in exactly those terms.) Which I suppose surprised me slightly.

 

[Eric]

I witnessed an incident at Bradford Interchange back in the late 90's when a lady in her 60's was boarding the Blackpool train and as she was doing so her left shoe slipped off and landed onto the track.

The conductor closed the doors and the driver pulled out just far enough for the station supervisor to jump down onto the track and retrieve said lady's shoe before the conductor opened the local door and let her on so she didn't have an hours wait till the next train.

Good practice I thought at the time.

 

[StrollerEd]

Getting all the ducks lined up with signals, re-routing to platforms and a staff member 'qualified' for track duty might take time, so from a passenger pov, in light of possible extended delay:

1. dropped ticket/pass
- would the staff on hand be able to issue a temporary ticket/pass that the passenger could use effectively, with separate undertaking to retrieve and notify said passenger for collection of orginal once it was timely to pick up from track?

2. book/keys/shoe?

as above but without the issue of temporary ticket/pass

 

[Flamingo]

A "litter picker" is usually used by station staff to retrieve anything dropped onto the track - indeed I have asked staff to retrieve things for me more than once.

Getting onto the track in any circumstances is always a bad idea. I remember a case a few years ago on the line into Paddington where a young lady jumped down onto the track at a station to retrieve a dropped mobile phone, just as a HST came around the corner at 125mph...

 

[junglejames]

where a young lady jumped down onto the track at a station to retrieve a dropped mobile phone, just as a HST came around the corner at 125mph...

..... Ouch! That, I do not like the sound of! Im assuming by the sounds of it, the mobile was the only one to survive?!

 

[Flamingo]

Yep.

It closed the main line into Pad for hours in the morning rush.

 

[IanXC]

I've seen a Northern guard get a long metal pole with a hook on the end from their cab to retrive a purse. Looked kind of homemade, wonder if the depot got bored! How very Northern Rail!

 

[Yew]

I've seen a Northern guard get a long metal pole with a hook on the end from their cab to retrive a purse. Looked kind of homemade, wonder if the depot got bored! How very Northern Rail!

That pole probably has better ride quality than a pacer..

 

[driver9000]

I've seen a Northern guard get a long metal pole with a hook on the end from their cab to retrive a purse. Looked kind of homemade, wonder if the depot got bored! How very Northern Rail!

That will be the handle for manually uncoupling BSI couplers which have been carried since new.

 

[BriefEncounter]

To clarify, station staff may go onto the track to retrieve items under clause 13.1 of Rule Book Module TS1, the General Signalling Regulations. The signaller will block the platform line and any necessary adjacent lines to allow the station staff to go onto the track. They do not need PTS. If the company they work for require that they have PTS then that is up to them. Additional issues may exist in DC areas.