Railcard discount and timings

[142094]

A couple of weeks ago I wanted to do a day single to Leeds from York. To get the full discount using a railcard on a weekday the first train I can get is a Northern York - Blackpool North service, which of course stops at the intermediate stations and takes ages. However on this day a TPE Scarborough -Liverpool Lime Street service was late, and set off after 10.00 but was timed to depart before the railcard discount applies.

Therefore could I have went by TPE instead of the slower Northern service?

Cheers

 

[Swift-Deere]

A couple of weeks ago I wanted to do a day single to Leeds from York. To get the full discount using a railcard on a weekday the first train I can get is a Northern York - Blackpool North service, which of course stops at the intermediate stations and takes ages. However on this day a TPE Scarborough -Liverpool Lime Street service was late, and set off after 10.00 but was timed to depart before the railcard discount applies.

Therefore could I have went by TPE instead of the slower Northern service?

Cheers

It has to be AFTER 10am when you get your ticket so if you bought it on the train [or in the station if you got your ticket in preparation for the northern service] and it was running late they would have to give to railcard discount

 

[tony_mac]

..for journeys made at or before 10am Monday to Friday

there's nothing about the timetable in the terms and conditions, so yes, you can board as long as it is after 10am.

 

[142094]

Excellent. I'm sure I've been told by staff issuing tickets something along the lines of "only valid on trains timed to depart after 10am", or soemthing similar, which led me to believe that it wouldn't be valid on the TPE service.

 

[Swift-Deere]

Excellent. I'm sure I've been told by staff issuing tickets something along the lines of "only valid on trains timed to depart after 10am", or soemthing similar, which led me to believe that it wouldn't be valid on the TPE service.

Just checked the Terms and Conditions and no such rule is in them just says after or at 10am

 

[ChrisTheRef]

I think it varies. In Liverpool, Saveaways are only valid on trains timed to depart after 0930.

If it's running late you can't catch it

 

[142094]

Great, I know for next time. Thanks for the help.

 

[yorkie]

I think it varies. In Liverpool, Saveaways are only valid on trains timed to depart after 0930.

If it's running late you can't catch it

That's a ticket condition though, which is different to a minimum fare. Simple!

 

[John @ home]

A couple of weeks ago I wanted to do a day single to Leeds from York. To get the full discount using a railcard on a weekday the first train I can get is a Northern York - Blackpool North service, which of course stops at the intermediate stations and takes ages. However on this day a TPE Scarborough -Liverpool Lime Street service was late, and set off after 10.00 but was timed to depart before the railcard discount applies.

Therefore could I have went by TPE instead of the slower Northern service?

There are two sets of conditions which interact.

Conditions of issue and use of the 16-25 Railcard (formerly Young Persons Railcard) and reduced priced tickets ('discounted tickets') bought with a 16-25 Railcard
A £12 minimum fare applies for journeys made at or before 10am Monday to Friday excluding Advance Fares.
http://www.16-25railcard.co.uk/buy-16-25-railcard/railcard-terms-conditions

All the Standard Class Day Single York - Leeds fares are less than £12, so this means that Monday to Friday there is no reduction available before 10am with a 16-25 Railcard.

But it is likely that you were using an Off-Peak Day Single, so those conditions also apply.

National Fares Manual NFM 04 CD
From - YORK
To - LEEDS
Route - 00000 - ANY PERMITTED
Discount - 16-25 RAILCARD
CDS - OFF-PEAK DAY S TPE
1 Adult @£ 6.85
Standard Class Single
Restriction : B1
By any train except those timed to depart Mondays to Fridays before 0930

This means that it depends which Scarborough - Liverpool Lime Street service was late. If it was the 0940 from York running, say, 25 minutes late then that is valid. But if it's the 0840 from York running, say, 85 minutes late then that's timed to depart before 0930, in theory it's not valid and on the train you may be asked to pay a 40p excess fare to make your Off-Peak Day Single into an Anytime Day Single. Railcard discount still applies.

I think it's most unlikely you would actually be charged, but that's what the rules say!

John

 

[142094]

Thanks for that info John, thought I could remember something similar to that but good to have it confirmed.

 

[tony_mac]

I think it varies. In Liverpool, Saveaways are only valid on trains timed to depart after 0930.

If it's running late you can't catch it

BTW, that is not what the leaflets say.

It would be a pretty stupid thing to try and enforce anyway, there are no guard checks so who knows which station you got on, and when there is a train every five minutes I doubt whether the customer knows or cares if they are boarding the 09:34 or the delayed 09:29.

 

[John @ home]

In Liverpool, Saveaways are only valid on trains timed to depart after 0930.

Not quite.

Merseytravel Saveaway

... you can travel on Saveaways:
Mondays to Fridays - any time EXCEPT for journeys starting between 6.31am and 9.29am.

www.merseytravel.gov.uk

 

[yorkie]

I'd say "Journeys starting at" means you're fine to get a later train. "Trains timed to depart" means you aren't. You generally find that longer distance ticket restrictions have the "trains timed to depart" wording, but for local journeys it makes far more sense to apply the restriction to when you started your journey.

It is quite possible to start a journey at 0930-something on a train timed to depart at 0920-something. Whether it is valid or not, depends on the conditions.

 

[ChrisTheRef]

Sorry

I took that word for word off the back of a ticket

 

[tony_mac]

he's right - it says on the back 'it is the scheduled departure time that determines the validity'

 

[Darandio]

Sounds pretty similar to the story I told on here a few months ago regarding the Tyne Tees Day Ranger.

During weekdays it is valid from 08:45am but there is a service to Darlington at 08:44. Now, if that is on time, I cannot use the ticket but on this occasion, it was already late by around 4 minutes yet the woman in Redcar Central ticket office insisted that I still buy a single to South Bank to cover the 1 minute because "the train I would board was booked for 08:44"