Rail warrant for route with no any permitted fare

[Be3G]

Hi all,

A relative of mine will, I believe, soon be given a rail warrant for travel between Gordon Hill and Welwyn Garden City. As this is an indirect journey by rail, there're three different routes available, all of which state a via point; there is no Any Permitted fare available. Assuming, therefore, that the person filling in the warrant doesn't specify a via station when doing so, how would the tickets be issued? Would the clerk ask my relative which route she wishes to use, or would he/she automatically product a ticket for the priciest route (via Finsbury Pk) and expect ticket-checking staff further along the route to be aware of this from the NRG:

Where the fare specifies a particular route, you may choose only those routes listed in the Guide which pass through the station shown in the route description. The National Routeing Guide may be used to find out how to reach the station shown in the route description. Where there are other permitted routes, these may also be used for the same journey provided the same or a lower fare applies.

Or is there perhaps some other procedure for dealing with this situation?

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[trentside]

To my knowledge there is no procedure for dealing with this set of circumstances.

Personally, I'd ask the person which route they intended to travel. If they were unsure, I'd provide them with the options and let them decide. I know others who would just issue the most expensive route. I think it depends on the clerk they are dealing with.

 

[Be3G]

Thanks trentside. The relative in question has very limited knowledge of both train travel and geography, so it looks like I might need to give her a helping hand!

 

[trentside]

Thanks trentside. The relative in question has very limited knowledge of both train travel and geography, so it looks like I might need to give her a helping hand!

No problems. If you could work out the route beforehand, at least she can go prepared - then it should avoid any problems (in theory)

 

[Hadders]

Realistically you'd want to go via Finsbury Park as this will be the fastest and most frequent way most of the time.

There is only one train an hour between Gordon Hill and Stevenage and the via Alexander Palace ticket effectively restricts you to the stopping services.

 

[paul1609]

The railway warrants issued to hm forces have the ability to specify a route. It states on the warrant that if no route is specified. The ticket most be issued by the cheapest route

 

[hairyhandedfool]

To my knowledge there is no procedure for dealing with this set of circumstances.....

A ticket office clerk at an impartial office (which most are, especially at smaller stations) must 'offer to sell' the cheapest valid ticket for the journey being made, the clerk should ask which route is being taken if it is not obvious.

 

[Flamingo]

The railway warrants issued to hm forces have the ability to specify a route. It states on the warrant that if no route is specified. The ticket most be issued by the cheapest route

That is because the MOD were getting stung for "Any Permitted" or "Via London" and/or "Anytime" on every warrant issued regardless of route or time of journeys, it must have cost them millions!

 

[trentside]

MOD warrants seem to be getting rare these days - I get the impression that they've moved over to using TOD?

 

[reb0118]

That is because the MOD were getting stung for ............ millions!

And this just from one Waverley guard. You know who you are........... :-x

 

[Tibbs]

MOD warrants seem to be getting rare these days - I get the impression that they've moved over to using TOD?

They have - it was a right pain for people who just lived near LO stations, as they couldn't issue TOD from the machines.

Now they can, it's way better.

 

[trentside]

They have - it was a right pain for people who just lived near LO stations, as they couldn't issue TOD from the machines.

Now they can, it's way better.

Thanks Tibbs.

After they withdrew the non-barcoded examples, I haven't actually seen one at all.

 

[Be3G]

A ticket office clerk at an impartial office (which most are, especially at smaller stations) must 'offer to sell' the cheapest valid ticket for the journey being made, the clerk should ask which route is being taken if it is not obvious.

Does that still apply with warrants though? I thought, for example, that only anytime tickets could be produced in exchange for a warrant, which would seem to go against the ‘cheapest valid ticket’ idea.

I also wonder (hypothetically, as it's unlikely my aunt would need this facility) how a clerk would deal with the desire for a ticket valid for one route in one direction, and a different route on the return. Seeing as understanding the NRG is a dying art, I assume most clerks wouldn't be familiar with the clause I quoted in the OP. Can a warrant be exchanged for a ticket plus an excess? I suppose it could if the ticket is for the most expensive route, and the excess is a zero one (for an alternative, cheaper route) but then some clerks don't like zero excesses. All seems a bit confusing. :-?

 

[Flamingo]

Am I right in thinking a warrant could cover two singles, one out and one return if two different routes are to be used?

 

[reb0118]

Am I right in thinking a warrant could cover two singles, one out and one return if two different routes are to be used?

Not sure. You can however issue two singles (one advance dated) to a passenger if, for example, the warrant specified an open return where none existed for that flow.

I also feel that you can issue more than one ticket per warrant if the circumstances warrant (sorry pun intended ) it. The box for the ticket number states first ticket so by implication more may be warranted (sorry - I'll get my hi viz coat )

 

[Sleepy]

Yes you can issue more than one ticket per warrant. E.g. if no via London price exists for through journey.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Does that still apply with warrants though? I thought, for example, that only anytime tickets could be produced in exchange for a warrant, which would seem to go against the ‘cheapest valid ticket’ idea....

You can have Anytime tickets for different routes and there is almost always a difference in price. Impartiality still applies.

....I assume most clerks wouldn't be familiar with the clause I quoted in the OP. Can a warrant be exchanged for a ticket plus an excess?....

I see no reason for it not to be allowed.

....I suppose it could if the ticket is for the most expensive route, and the excess is a zero one (for an alternative, cheaper route) but then some clerks don't like zero excesses. All seems a bit confusing. :-?

It is unlikely a zero fare excess would be issued, the more expensive route is generally accepted to be valid via the other cheaper routes. Routeing enquiries I have made at ticket offices in the past have usually been met with "just ask the guard".

 

[Be3G]

You can have Anytime tickets for different routes and there is almost always a difference in price. Impartiality still applies.

Oh yes, what I meant is that even if someone needs a travel for off-peak travel they'd still be given an anytime ticket when using a warrant (or at least, that's my understanding), which made me think that the general system with warrants is that the most expensive ticket is automatically provided.

Anyway, thanks to everyone for their help and information. In the end, my relative has been told to just buy the ticket she needs and she'll be reimbursed. It's been an interesting discussion though, finding a couple of further grey areas to add to the already murky waters of railway ticketing.

 

[SickyNicky]

Oh yes, what I meant is that even if someone needs a travel for off-peak travel they'd still be given an anytime ticket when using a warrant (or at least, that's my understanding)

Off-Peak tickets can most certainly be issued in exchange for rail warrants. I issue warrants frequently and have done so for many years and can't recall an occasion where an off peak ticket was refused for a warrant.

In most cases I specifically write "off-peak" on the warrant.

Edit: I've attached a scan of a warrant, for those not familiar with them.

 

[Be3G]

Hmm, I don't know what I'm thinking of then. Perhaps it's the case that if off-peak isn't specified in the ticket type, the clerk is obliged to issue an anytime ticket? I've had one or two warrants over the years, though I can't remember if it was me who encountered the off-peak peculiarity or just something I read.