Rail strikes discussion

[ExRes]

They're no doubt not here anymore because apparently we "don't want foreigners".

Why not try "no longer here because St Pancras was rebuilt and finished 15 years ago", but I guess that's not xenophobic enough for some people

 

[ar10642]

I think the point he was trying to make is that if he has a contingent guard on who isn’t experienced to the same standard, does the job once in a blue moon, and they dispatch against Red then he would feel less assured in taking the train forward with that guard on board.

Maybe there shouldn’t be a difference but I can see his point.

The tone of the post was more that he'd do it on strike days to be awkward above all else (e.g. "leaf out of place"). If it was about inexperienced staff that's more understandable.

 

[GeordieO]

I could not look my colleagues in the eye if I worked against my colleagues during industrial action. I would never abuse anyone that did but I certainly would have no interest in talking, helping or socialise with them.

The thing with the railway is the various unions, and I'm sure some will attend duty as normal next week as they are in a different union (ie not RMT). I hope you are aware of this and don't hold it against those colleagues.

 

[Bald Rick]

As for Shapps. He would do well to take a history lesson on the impact previous cuts to rail maintenance took place. I believe that Hatfield comes under his parliamentary constituency.

there are no proposals to reduce maintenance standards or compromise safety. Quite the opposite.

 

[2021_Signaller]

there are no proposals to reduce maintenance standards or compromise safety. Quite the opposite.

I've stated the case about 5 times throughout this thread. Is it asking too much for people to read and respond to what is written rather than just pretending it doesn't exist?

 

[ComUtoR]

If it was about inexperienced staff that's more understandable.

Inexperienced or not. All staff must meet the required competency. Day 1 or day 1000 it doesn't matter.

 

[ar10642]

Inexperienced or not. All staff must meet the required competency. Day 1 or day 1000 it doesn't matter.

That's how I understood it from reading comments on this forum for a long time. So "I will report these issues but only on strike days" suggests something a bit off somewhere...

 

[jayah]

Why strangely?

£47k is well above any national average and very few organisations in 2022 spend half their entire budget on staff pay.

 

[ComUtoR]

That's how I understood it from reading comments on this forum for a long time. So "I will report these issues but only on strike days" suggests something a bit off somewhere...

There is going to be a higher rate of incident next week. The stress levels of everyone involved and the added pressure is a major contributory factor in any incident. Lots of people are going to be angry and impatient. Anyone who is working next week I would urge caution. Use your Non Technical Skills, aide memoires, commentary driving, personal protective strategies etc. Potentially, reporting on those days, will also go through the roof because more people are working to rule and not ignoring the small stuff.

As a Driver I've had plenty of signals go back and generally I push through the brown trouser moment and carry on; except for the more serious ones. On a day where there is a melting pot of issues. I'd probably come off. Not because I'm thinking its a signalling manager fluffing it (I trust anyone deemed competent) but because there is an increased risk to me and yes, my passengers.

 

[High Dyke]

there are no proposals to reduce maintenance standards or compromise safety. Quite the opposite.

Fair enough. However, with fewer staff to carry out work there would be a knock on effect. Just because a person is re-trained to become multi-skilled doesn't mean that there won't be a safety implication. In many cases teams are short-staffed now - as i found out last week during a signal failure. Insufficient staff available to safely climb the signal, but acting in accordance with the current working at height regulations etc.

 

[jayah]

I've stated the case about 5 times throughout this thread. Is it asking too much for people to read and respond to what is written rather than just pretending it doesn't exist?

The DM article posted earlier quoted an industry source who said the unions were opposed to replacing human track patrolling with more modern technologies.

In other words, to protect jobs, they wanted to keep processes that were actually less effective and involved more risk to staff.

Article

The mad militant gravy train: Services cancelled because staff won't work when it's sunny, breaks that restart if a boss says 'hello'. As they boast of bringing the network to a halt, GUY ADAMS reveals how union rules are stuck in the steam age

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Jun 2022 ==

That's how I understood it from reading comments on this forum for a long time. So "I will report these issues but only on strike days" suggests something a bit off somewhere...

Not ignoring the fact that lots of breakers will be getting tripped 'only on strike days' and other such shenanigans in order to catch out the 'scabs' as they are often referred to.

 

[kristiang85]

So the government wrecked the railways economy with its lockdown policy ... railway workers to blame.
Inflation running at 11% due to government lockdown policy ... railway workers should be content with a 9% paycut judging by the risible offer from government and refusal to mitigate its unsafe modernisation proposals.

Remind me again why strike action is unreasonable? Government to blame, government to blame and er, government to blame.

From what I recall, the unions were asking for stronger, harder lockdowns...

 

[ComUtoR]

The DM article posted earlier quoted an industry source who said the unions were opposed to replacing human track patrolling with more modern technologies.

The new track monitoring tool on my trains must be a myth then.

 

[jayah]

The new track monitoring tool on my trains must be a myth then.

Have they replaced any of the patrolling?

 

[2021_Signaller]

The DM article posted earlier quoted an industry source who said the unions were opposed to replacing human track patrolling with more modern technologies.

In other words, to protect jobs, they wanted to keep processes that were actually less effective and involved more risk to staff.

Article

I don't know if that's correct and certainly judging by some of the falsehoods pushed by the DM about this strike action, which I read, it wouldn't surprise me if they are inventing or somewhat exaggerating this case as well. There are some good bits of kit for detecting problems on the track. However, I don't know the specifics about the maintenance crews that do patrol. There may be good reasons for them continuing to do so. I wouldn't treat the issue as black and white. There may be genuine safety issues why patrolling is still done.

 

[ComUtoR]

Have they replaced any of the patrolling?

For that you would have to ask Network Rail. (not the daily mail) However, we have a new track monitoring tool specifically for Network Rail to check the track. I very much get the impression that it will reduce the need for patrolling and find faults quicker than humans can. Should all patrolling be stopped ? I'm not sure because I don't work for Network Rail so I don't understand were they patrol, what they look for and if the human is required or not. I have no doubt that when someone photgraphs it, it will get posted on the forum and discussed.

That whole article is very disengenuous.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

For that you would have to ask Network Rail. (not the daily mail) However, we have a new track monitoring tool specifically for Network Rail to check the track. I very much get the impression that it will reduce the need for patrolling and find faults quicker than humans can. Should all patrolling be stopped ? I'm not sure because I don't work for Network Rail so I don't understand were they patrol, what they look for and if the human is required or not. I have no doubt that when someone photgraphs it, it will get posted on the forum and discussed.

That whole article is very disengenuous.

It's always more nuanced than the papers report. My guess is that network rail want to replace 80% and the unions on accept 60% or something like that.
There are so many ’safety critical’ processes that suddenly become not when a different company does the same thing, driver only dispatch for example discussed elsewhere in the forum

 

[bobblebob]

Are the timetables recently announced during the strike days and either side of it actually deliverable? I assume so as the train companies will have taken all this into consideration, but there still seems to be a hell of alot of trains running. LNER for example are running hourly services from Leeds to London. Heathrow Express every 30 mins

Seems the unions have over egged this if the timetables are met. Talking of food shortages as freight trains wont be able to run, simply arent true if this many passenger trains can run

 

[RPI]

According to internal communication, the pay talks on the 16th TSSA, ASLEF and Unite turned up, RMT didn't as they're negotiating at a national level? Now, we all know where the buck stops but ultimately it is the TOC that pays the staff, only now the TOC has no commercial freedom..... we basically have nationalisation now and we're seeing the very reasons why I've always been against it.

Separate communication from TSSA stated that it is now on record that any pay increase must be linked with better productivity, or "strings attached" as they put it.

I don't necessarily have a problem with this to a degree, there are roles within the railway that do need to be made more flexible to change with the times and this could be a way of redeployment of booking office staff, it states that they (TSSA) will accept absolutely no changes to conditions without consultation (fair).

The fact that the email mentions booking office staff specifically suggests that this could be the main issue from the TOC side of the dispute.

I don't want to copy and paste the email as it does contain what can be deemed derogatory comments about the TOC I'm employed by which would leave me liable to disciplinary action (a lot of people including managers know who i am on here) though this email has been sent to all members at my TOC so someone else may post it.

It also states that TSSA are now looking to ballot for industrial action.

 

[800001]

Are the timetables recently announced during the strike days and either side of it actually deliverable? I assume so as the train companies will have taken all this into consideration, but there still seems to be a hell of alot of trains running. LNER for example are running hourly services from Leeds to London. Heathrow Express every 30 mins

Seems the unions have over egged this if the timetables are met. Talking of food shortages as freight trains wont be able to run, simply arent true if this many passenger trains can run

Timetable will be based on the number of contingent train managers to operate services

 

[TheEdge]

According to internal communication, the pay talks on the 16th TSSA, ASLEF and Unite turned up, RMT didn't as they're negotiating at a national level? Now, we all know where the buck stops but ultimately it is the TOC that pays the staff, only now the TOC has no commercial freedom..... we basically have nationalisation now and we're seeing the very reasons why I've always been against it.

It seems to me that we are in this bizarre situation where both the actual negotiating parties want to do that and come to a solution but the TOCs are being stopped by the DfT/HMT/Government. But then as we've seen when the RMT have requested to talk directly to the people holding the TOCs leads they've been told no, they are not part of the negotiations.

Then get you noses out and let both parties talk freely!

 

[Gems]

According to internal communication, the pay talks on the 16th TSSA, ASLEF and Unite turned up, RMT didn't as they're negotiating at a national level? Now, we all know where the buck stops but ultimately it is the TOC that pays the staff, only now the TOC has no commercial freedom..... we basically have nationalisation now and we're seeing the very reasons why I've always been against it.

This is why I take serious issue with the RMT. They sold the pup of nationalisation, never once did they stop to think what nationalisation would mean for it's members. Same with Brexit. Pushed for Brexit on the grounds that the EU would do bad things, only to find out the Johnson shower outfit want to do worse.
It's time the RMT stuck to what they are good for, representing their members, because every time they dabble into politics they come out of it looking like a complete arse. If it isn't Brexit and nationalisation, it is praising Russia and holding Cuban garden parties.

 

[RPI]

It seems to me that we are in this bizarre situation where both the actual negotiating parties want to do that and come to a solution but the TOCs are being stopped by the DfT/HMT/Government. But then as we've seen when the RMT have requested to talk directly to the people holding the TOCs leads they've been told no, they are not part of the negotiations.

Then get you noses out and let both parties talk freely!

Yes, it certainly seems like there is an agenda, what I am seeing from general comments from passengers this week, is that the public are not generally supportive.

 

[northwichcat]

I think the Friday timetable for the Stoke line highlights Northern win the crown for "the operator who can't be arsed to run services to carry passengers"

At Congleton it shows the first Manchester bound train at 10:10, but both Avanti and West Coast services are sending services through the station before 9am. Northern are the ones who are suspending the service in full on Thursday, so their trains will be in place they were left at close down on Tuesday, with late services on Tuesday pretty much normal. Avanti are running a service on strike days, to not only allow for the strike but the closure of the line through Stockport, so they have an excuse of things not being normal the following morning. It also seems Northern have decided to suspend some afternoon services on the Stoke line on non-strike days, leaving a 2 hourly service. I don't know what excuse they can make up for that one?

Realtime Trains | Departures from Congleton between 0200 and 0159 on 24/06/2022

Train information at Congleton between 0200 and 0159 on 24/06/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Jun 2022 ==

what I am seeing from general comments from passengers this week, is that the public are not generally supportive.

Underlying reason is it seems the RMT have decided their members can afford to strike but so many passengers have finances stretched so far that they can't afford for a RMT strike to go ahead. Petrol, taxis and unpaid leave are unaffordable luxuries for many now.

 

[baz962]

Yes, it certainly seems like there is an agenda, what I am seeing from general comments from passengers this week, is that the public are not generally supportive.

I have seen quite a bit of support. In fact when Grant Shapps has posted on both Twitter and LinkedIn, there seems to be a fair few people giving him stick and supporting the strikes. Of course some side with him.

 

[RPI]

I have seen quite a bit of support. In fact when Grant Shapps has posted on both Twitter and LinkedIn, there seems to be a fair few people giving him stick and supporting the strikes. Of course some side with him.

I'm just on about comments made by passengers over the past week.

 

[northwichcat]

I have seen quite a bit of support. In fact when Grant Shapps has posted on both Twitter and LinkedIn, there seems to be a fair few people giving him stick and supporting the strikes. Of course some side with him.

Can anyone say for certain that neither the RMT or any of their members have not created fake Twitter accounts or purchased comments or likes? The Tommy Robinson lot managed to get thousands of reactions to tweets, with the majority from fake accounts.

Fake accounts is less of a problem on Linkedin but some still do exist.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Jun 2022 ==

I'm just on about comments made by passengers over the past week.

Real people actually using the trains.

 

[kristiang85]

I have seen quite a bit of support. In fact when Grant Shapps has posted on both Twitter and LinkedIn, there seems to be a fair few people giving him stick and supporting the strikes. Of course some side with him.

The passenger groups on FB that I'm on are 95% against it.

 

[bobblebob]

The passenger groups on FB that I'm on are 95% against it.

People are against them as it directly effects them. Take the Arriva bus strikes in Yorkshire going on. 2 week now of no buses. Most people area against them because its effecting them. While annoying, drivers need a payrise otherwise services will only get worse as they cannot attract new drivers on just above minimum wage.

 

[Need2]

£47k is well above any national average and very few organisations in 2022 spend half their entire budget on staff pay.

Better tell old Granty that then, he’ll soon cut unaffordable wages.