Rail Staff

[Central Trains]

I have heard the odd rumour if you are a member of rail staff then you most gaurds dont charge you for a ticket? I am a new employee to the national rail network and if anyone could give me any info on this 'off the record' rule I would be most grateful.

 

[Matt Taylor]

My advice would be to speak to the guard prior to boarding any train, it is at their discretion as to whether they will charge you or not.

 

[First class]

I have heard the odd rumour if you are a member of rail staff then you most gaurds dont charge you for a ticket? I am a new employee to the national rail network and if anyone could give me any info on this 'off the record' rule I would be most grateful.

Not a good idea to ask on here.

Rail Staff pay 75% of the generally most expensive fare. You (should) get free travel on your own TOC, and any other TOC where reciprocal agreements are in place and may be ammended from time to time.

Anything you do above and beyond what is permitted, like the (un)paying public- at your own risk.

 

[strange6]

Not a good idea to ask on here.

Rail Staff pay 75% of the generally most expensive fare. You (should) get free travel on your own TOC, and any other TOC where reciprocal agreements are in place and may be ammended from time to time.

Anything you do above and beyond what is permitted, like the (un)paying public- at your own risk.

I would also imagine that people like G4S would not think twice about doing you at places like ticket barriers and inspection points. Always best to play by the rules in my book!

 

[Stigy]

Not a good idea to ask on here.

Rail Staff pay 75% of the generally most expensive fare. You (should) get free travel on your own TOC, and any other TOC where reciprocal agreements are in place and may be ammended from time to time.

Anything you do above and beyond what is permitted, like the (un)paying public- at your own risk.

Not wanting to nit-pick, but it's 25% of the fare we pay, as the 75% is deducted...

 

[strange6]

Not wanting to nit-pick, but it's 25% of the fare we pay, as the 75% is deducted...

Pretty good value is that!

 

[Deerfold]

Pretty good value is that!

It can be. On the other hand it can be a lot more than advances.

 

[Stigy]

It can be. On the other hand it can be a lot more than advances.

Indeed. I've not really taken advantage of long-distance travel, but some advance fares are far cheaper.

 

[yorkie]

I have heard the odd rumour if you are a member of rail staff then you most gaurds dont charge you for a ticket?

Not sure about 'most', it may be most at some TOCs though.

The reaction will vary, and could be anything from sending you packing to saying "sit in first".

The chances of a free ride may be increased on late night services, particularly after sporting events, on the basis that you will help out if needed.

There is a very interesting link that I will PM you, where you can read a lot about the subject.

 

[RJ]

I've very rarely used my priv. For the sporadic journies not covered by my Gold Card discounted Oyster, it's almost always cheaper to buy Advance tickets with the 16 - 25 discount.

As for going on trains, presumably it's a case of asking the guard first. I've often travelled free on HS1 services and on one occasion I went to assist the guard with some fare evaders when he put out a tannoy call saying he needed assistance. I have no pity for anybody who is stupid enough to do anything which might get their facilities revoked, such as sitting in FC without permission or even getting on a train without asking the guard first. As has been said it is at one's own risk, if the guard says yes then RPIs or barrier staff stop you then you're screwed. There's a saying about being "whiter than white" where it comes to travelling once you're a railwayman.

 

[Greenback]

Quite right. I never abused my Priv and always bought a ticket at the ticket office (if there was one). I never asked for free travel, and never sat in First Class, eithe rof my own volition or with the permission of the guard.

When I once boarded at an unstaffed stations, I was denied the opportunity to pay, whihc left me feeling a bit uncomfortable. I think I felt a bit like a fare evader.

 

[premier01]

Not sure about 'most', it may be most at some TOCs though.

The reaction will vary, and could be anything from sending you packing to saying "sit in first".

The chances of a free ride may be increased on late night services, particularly after sporting events, on the basis that you will help out if needed.

There is a very interesting link that I will PM you, where you can read a lot about the subject.

On a local Northern Train yesterday some VT staff were about to pay-using the PRIV cards I think and were just told 'it's ok' by the guard-not sure of the agreements if any with these TOC's but guess it's on a case by case basis. I've been advised by friends with PRIV cards that they always follow the rules as it's always so cheap with the discount.

Out of interest are there a lot of variations on discounts for staff then.

 

[BestWestern]

On a local Northern Train yesterday some VT staff were about to pay-using the PRIV cards I think and were just told 'it's ok' by the guard-not sure of the agreements if any with these TOC's but guess it's on a case by case basis. I've been advised by friends with PRIV cards that they always follow the rules as it's always so cheap with the discount.

Out of interest are there a lot of variations on discounts for staff then.

The PRIV discount is 75% off the standard full fare ticket. You can't apply a PRIV discount to an already discounted fare, like Cheap Day tickets for example. However, some staff - essentially those who worked for BR before privatisation - are 'Safeguarded', meaning that they retain their free nationwide rail travel facilities which they previously held under nationalisation. You also find a lot of Safeguarded retired staff. There are different types of passes in use, for First or Standard class and Leisure or Residential use etc.

As for unofficial freebies, it is generally only if and when a particular Guard feels that they don't wish to charge a fellow railwayman (or woman) and will let them travel for free. I never have a problem with this, as I feel that we're all on the same side etc, but of course some prefer to do it by the book. Sometimes this is just through a sense of duty, sometimes it may be because they are concerned at getting 'caught out'; I never take offence at being charged. I personaly try to avoid asking outright for a free ride, as I feel it a tad rude; I'll ask the Guard for a PRIV and if he/she declines to sell me a ticket then that's a bonus, but not an expectation. If they are happy to let you travel free of charge they'll almost certainly offer when you ask for a ticket.

 

[premier01]

The PRIV discount is 75% off the standard full fare ticket. You can't apply a PRIV discount to an already discounted fare, like Cheap Day tickets for example. However, some staff - essentially those who worked for BR before privatisation - are 'Safeguarded', meaning that they retain their free nationwide rail travel facilities which they previously held under nationalisation. You also find a lot of Safeguarded retired staff. There are different types of passes in use, for First or Standard class and Leisure or Residential use etc.

As for unofficial freebies, it is generally only if and when a particular Guard feels that they don't wish to charge a fellow railwayman (or woman) and will let them travel for free. I never have a problem with this, as I feel that we're all on the same side etc, but of course some prefer to do it by the book. Sometimes this is just through a sense of duty, sometimes it may be because they are concerned at getting 'caught out'; I never take offence at being charged. I personaly try to avoid asking outright for a free ride, as I feel it a tad rude; I'll ask the Guard for a PRIV and if he/she declines to sell me a ticket then that's a bonus, but not an expectation. If they are happy to let you travel free of charge they'll almost certainly offer when you ask for a ticket.

That's what I've noticed generally although personally have no issue with a guard letting a fellow colleague travel completely free is this allowed by the TOC's

Also which staff generally get 1st Class travel free as part of their staff travel discounts.

 

[185]

Always ask the guard first. Generally most companies should give free travel on their own trains, and on other companies trains, ask first. Generally if your a long way from home, or doing a long journey, but a ticket instead. In time you will pick up the useful tricks with priv eg. mixing priv rangers or rovers with priv tickets, or for example using London Midland Only tickets, a fifth the price of Virmin's priv returns.

 

[ticketmanmike]

http://www.atoc.org/about-atoc/rail-staff-travel

 

[Mojo]

http://www.atoc.org/about-atoc/rail-staff-travel

Thanks, but that doesn't answer the OP's question.

As an aside, what do people do on trains with non-commercial guards or DOO services

 

[reb0118]

Thanks, but that doesn't answer the OP's question.

As an aside, what do people do on trains with non-commercial guards or DOO services

I always buy a ticket in those situations. EG I was at Ormskirk yesterday & I think it is good that Merseyrail staff all their stations - therefore I will buy a ticket at the office.

Also in other areas there maybe lots of quiet stations with low passenger numbers - I sometimes get the guard to sell me a ticket from those to do my bit to bump up the numbers and possibly keep the stations open - instead of for exactly the journey I was making.

In PF areas buy before you board. A RPI tried to PF me on a FCC train even though I had a First Group train pass correctly dated - he claimed not to have seen one before and advised me to appeal. I refused to pay & to give my details - however he took details from my Staff Travel Card - I never received any further correspondence re the matter.

 

[yorkie]

In PF areas buy before you board. A RPI tryed to PF me on a FCC train even though I had a First Group train pass correctly dated - he claimed not to have seen one before and advised me to appeal. I refused to pay & to give my details - however he took details from my Staff Travel Card - I never received any further correspondence re the matter.

I hope the RPI did...!

Although you really should have got correspondence in the form of an apology.

I would have done the same as you (with perhaps threatening to take his details to refer to in a letter of complaint! )

If that RPI is prepared to treat fellow staff so badly, then I cannot imagine how badly he may treat customers!

A report on FCC's Targeted Enforcement Team can be found here.

Not all FCC RPIs are bad, of course, there's at least one nice one here

I've heard some absolute horror stories about FCC management, from FCC staff. So I don't have confidence that FCC management are capable of ensuring their RPIs are good.

 

[bengolding]

Judging by the contents of that FCC TET report, I pity anyone who commutes daily with FCC and has to put up with these people. I regularly use FCC to/from Luton Airport and revenue checks on board in First are more prevalent.

 

[cav1975]

A a paying customer I find it very annoying that on and off duty railway staff congregate in First class in the leading carriage on SouthEastern after the guard has made an explicit announcement that First class is for people holding First class tickets only.

I never travel First class on the 375s as off peak there is no difference but it just doesn't seem right.

 

[Firestarter]

Judging by the contents of that FCC TET report, I pity anyone who commutes daily with FCC and has to put up with these people. I regularly use FCC to/from Luton Airport and revenue checks on board in First are more prevalent.

The TET team is no more but more RPI and RCO have been and are continuing to be recruited hence more checks in First Class plus more barriers going up at certain locations.

 

[BestWestern]

A RPI tried to PF me on a FCC train even though I had a First Group train pass correctly dated - he claimed not to have seen one before and advised me to appeal. I refused to pay & to give my details - however he took details from my Staff Travel Card - I never received any further correspondence re the matter.

It's always a shame when you get 'fellow' rail staff with this attitude, I'd never dream of treating a colleague in that way. It is something of a 'code of honour', if you like, that a railwayman is a railwayman and should be treated as such. Shame to see that being ignored by some. As a typical example of how things ought to be, on a recent on-duty journey out of Bristol TM on a Voyager to pick up my train elsewhere, the TM ushered me into First Class, and was then also kind enough to make me a brew This was a late evening service with a near-empty train; obviously during the day one might reasonably expect slightly less 'customer service', but it's just nice when colleagues can extend one another a bit of courtesy.

As for the earlier question about who gets First Class passes, it would generally be managers and so on, with 'ordinary' staff having only Standard Class priviledges. There is a pecking order, you see...

 

[Fred26]

I hope the RPI did...!

Although you really should have got correspondence in the form of an apology.

I would have done the same as you (with perhaps threatening to take his details to refer to in a letter of complaint! )

If that RPI is prepared to treat fellow staff so badly, then I cannot imagine how badly he may treat customers!

A report on FCC's Targeted Enforcement Team can be found here.

Not all FCC RPIs are bad, of course, there's at least one nice one here

I've heard some absolute horror stories about FCC management, from FCC staff. So I don't have confidence that FCC management are capable of ensuring their RPIs are good.

Judging by the contents of that FCC TET report, I pity anyone who commutes daily with FCC and has to put up with these people. I regularly use FCC to/from Luton Airport and revenue checks on board in First are more prevalent.

The TET team is no more but more RPI and RCO have been and are continuing to be recruited hence more checks in First Class plus more barriers going up at certain locations.

It's always a shame when you get 'fellow' rail staff with this attitude, I'd never dream of treating a colleague in that way. It is something of a 'code of honour', if you like, that a railwayman is a railwayman and should be treated as such. Shame to see that being ignored by some. As a typical example of how things ought to be, on a recent on-duty journey out of Bristol TM on a Voyager to pick up my train elsewhere, the TM ushered me into First Class, and was then also kind enough to make me a brew This was a late evening service with a near-empty train; obviously during the day one might reasonably expect slightly less 'customer service', but it's just nice when colleagues can extend one another a bit of courtesy.

As for the earlier question about who gets First Class passes, it would generally be managers and so on, with 'ordinary' staff having only Standard Class priviledges. There is a pecking order, you see...

The TET team are coming back, as soon as they come to terms with management.

That report suggests that the TET team should be in uniform, carry machines and not go around in groups of more than two. That's missing the point entirely. They're not in uniform so that people don't run off when they're seen. They don't carry machines for the same reason. They travel in bigger groups than RPIs, mainly, I thought, so they can work trains faster and carry out blocks at will.

The rest of the stuff I can't really defend and won't bother trying. I think they're going to be great when they come back especially if there's late night blocks and such, which is what is suggested.

 

[route101]

I remember when my mate had his Priv , a GNER guard let us go in 1st Class .

 

[premier01]

A a paying customer I find it very annoying that on and off duty railway staff congregate in First class in the leading carriage on SouthEastern after the guard has made an explicit announcement that First class is for people holding First class tickets only.

I never travel First class on the 375s as off peak there is no difference but it just doesn't seem right.

The few times I have actually travelled in 1st on FCC there have always been staff sat in there!

 

[Aictos]

In PF areas buy before you board. A RPI tried to PF me on a FCC train even though I had a First Group train pass correctly dated - he claimed not to have seen one before and advised me to appeal. I refused to pay & to give my details - however he took details from my Staff Travel Card - I never received any further correspondence re the matter.

This is wrong, I'm sure fellow First colleagues can vouch here but if the First Rail Travel Card is correctly filled in then no PF's ought to be issued.

It's a pity some are like that and judging from past experience, it's always the ones that do this that disappear at the first sight of disruption.

 

[scotsman]

This is wrong, I'm sure fellow First colleagues can vouch here but if the First Rail Travel Card is correctly filled in then no PF's ought to be issued.

It's a pity some are like that and judging from past experience, it's always the ones that do this that disappear at the first sight of disruption.

I'm confused as to why someone would suggest buying before boarding in PF areas before talking about his First travel pass being refused? First travel passes are valid for travel if there's a box is dated correctly (Not First staff though, from looking at my mate's one)

 

[reb0118]

Just to clarify my previous posts:-

1) re the potential PF on the FCC train this incident took place not long after the first issue of the First Group Rail Travel Card for all eligible non safeguarded train staff. The issue was not whether the pass was correctly dated or not but whether the pass was valid on FCC. The RPI though not - I thought (in fact knew) yes.

I put it down to a lack of training/knowledge with the RPI at the time esp as the passes were quite new on the scene. I've had no further problems with any FCC or any other First Group companies since.

2) Buy before you board in a PF area is just common sense whether you are rail staff or not. Obviously if you have a valid rail pass for the company concerned you don't have to buy a ticket - unless you collect them!

 

[Aictos]

I'm confused as to why someone would suggest buying before boarding in PF areas before talking about his First travel pass being refused? First travel passes are valid for travel if there's a box is dated correctly (Not First staff though, from looking at my mate's one)

That's what I've said above, if the box is dated correctly then any RPI shouldn't turn round and try to PF you which is what reb0118 was discussing.

If I remember correctly, each dated box is valid for 48 hours so if I date it for today, I can use it tomorrow as well

I think if a box isn't filled in then the RPI is supposed to cross out a box and the staff member have to fill in another box.