Rail staff in First Class

[tivoli]

Just back from XC Birmingham to Cambridge. At Birmingham 3 of the 9 first class seats were occupied by rail staff, LM I think; they got off at Nuneaton. A XC staff member came and went at some point too.

I have no problem with this but wondered if there was any policy/guidance on this. I can understand on a very busy train, staff could displace themselves to allow extra seats in standard but if there were 9 members of the public looking for 1st class seats, would the staff have to make way?

 

[83G/84D]

My understanding is that rail staff regardless if on duty or not, when travelling on trains (but not carrying out duties on them) should give up seats if necessary for fare paying passengers.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Wording varies by TOC but as a guide, staff travelling on 'Priv' tckets or 'staff travel passes' are requested to give up their seats if 'fare paying passengers' require them.

 

[A-driver]

They would give up seats if needed by others. Many staff travel in 1st to free up seats in standard. It's technically not allowed as uniformed staff generally only have standard passes but few ticket examiners or guards will kick collegues out of first.

 

[PermitToTravel]

If a conductor is working a train, are they supposed to offer a seat to fare-paying passengers? (just wondering, not an accusation)

 

[edwin_m]

If a conductor is working a train, are they supposed to offer a seat to fare-paying passengers? (just wondering, not an accusation)

The conductor on duty will be based in the back cab or some other non-passenger area.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Apart from when they're selling tickets or performing any duties with passengers

I've seen conductors sitting at seats in the passenger saloon, but I don't think I've ever seen this on any train other than a late-night one. At any rate there was never a shortage of seats, I'm just curious

 

[A-driver]

Apart from when they're selling tickets or performing any duties with passengers

I've seen conductors sitting at seats in the passenger saloon, but I don't think I've ever seen this on any train other than a late-night one. At any rate there was never a shortage of seats, I'm just curious

I can say with certainty that you would never see a train with passengers standing where the guard actually working the train is taking up a seat-it just wouldn't happen.

 

[Clip]

My understanding is that rail staff regardless if on duty or not, when travelling on trains (but not carrying out duties on them) should give up seats if necessary for fare paying passengers.

What about fare paying railstaff? Do we have to give up our seats too? Thanks for that.


I kno what you were getting at but nowadays a lot of us take advantage of the cheap AP ticks rather than using a priv as its not worth it a lot of the time.

 

[A-driver]

What about fare paying railstaff? Do we have to give up our seats too? Thanks for that.





I kno what you were getting at but nowadays a lot of us take advantage of the cheap AP ticks rather than using a priv as its not worth it a lot of the time.

Being staff isn't a reason to be expected to give up a seat. Travelling on a discounted ticket sold on condition that you allow others to take seats is. So no, of course staff paying public fares don't need to give up seats.

 

[Clip]

Being staff isn't a reason to be expected to give up a seat. Travelling on a discounted ticket sold on condition that you allow others to take seats is. So no, of course staff paying public fares don't need to give up seats.

I know, hence why I said I knew what they were getting at but the post made it clear that there was no distinction between the two.

 

[Qwerty133]

Just back from XC Birmingham to Cambridge. At Birmingham 3 of the 9 first class seats were occupied by rail staff, LM I think; they got off at Nuneaton. A XC staff member came and went at some point too.

I have no problem with this but wondered if there was any policy/guidance on this. I can understand on a very busy train, staff could displace themselves to allow extra seats in standard but if there were 9 members of the public looking for 1st class seats, would the staff have to make way?

As long as the staff, aren't stopping other passengers getting a seat in first and the conductor isn't talking to them from the back cab, leading to the cab door repetitively slamming, I have absolutely no problem with rail staff travelling in first.
Less acceptable is seeing staff in any class of accommodation in uniform with their bag on the seat next to them, as it makes it seem acceptable to other passengers.
And I'm only a passenger!

 

[theageofthetra]

If you are traveling on your own TOC (or partner company) are you allowed to sit in First if you are out of uniform, say on your day off?

 

[Southern313]

Only if your staff travel entitles you to first class. We have had members of staff caught by managers in first class both on and off duty and hauled over the coals for it.

 

[Fincra5]

Varies from Company to company. At the end of the day Staff in 1st is up to the Guard (if its not generally allowed)

 

[theageofthetra]

What happens if there is not a guard and its an RPO who checks the tickets?

 

[LBSCR Times]

What happens if there is not a guard and its an RPO who checks the tickets?

Again, it depends on the RPO, especially if the person sitting in the first class has previously upset them.......

Staff in uniform, outside of the peak hour, is very rarely a problem, as it would often keep out the undesirables, but the opposite, is generally frowned on, and, as has been said before, can lead to disciplinary action and withdrawal of their facilities.

 

[Goatboy]

As long as the staff, aren't stopping other passengers getting a seat in first and the conductor isn't talking to them from the back cab, leading to the cab door repetitively slamming, I have absolutely no problem with rail staff travelling in first.

Had this on a 166 the other week, though no complaints from me because the view of the track out of the cab door was very interesting and not something I normally get to see

 

[D1009]

I recall around 3-4 years ago a member of Virgin Trains senior management discovered four Chiltern drivers in uniform tucking into a full breakfast on a peak time Birmingham Euston Pendo. No action was taken against the drivers, but the TM and catering crew got into trouble over it, and it led to a crackdown on drivers in uniform travelling in first class.

 

[455driver]

I recall around 3-4 years ago a member of Virgin Trains senior management discovered four Chiltern drivers in uniform tucking into a full breakfast on a peak time Birmingham Euston Pendo. No action was taken against the drivers, but the TM and catering crew got into trouble over it, and it led to a crackdown on drivers in uniform travelling in first class.

Its good to see what high esteem Virmin hold railstaff (albeit other companies)when they throw travel vouchers at the general public like confetti even when the GP are in the wrong! :roll:

Are they seriously saying they cant afford a few breakfasts, especially towards the end of the run when the food would be thrown away anyway meaning its just a bit of gas (to cook the food) and water (to wash up afterwards) that is being wasted!

 

[PermitToTravel]

Did the member of senior management personally check the tickets of the Chiltern drivers, or just assume that they hadn't any?

 

[TDK]

Its good to see what high esteem Virmin hold railstaff (albeit other companies)when they throw travel vouchers at the general public like confetti even when the GP are in the wrong! :roll:

Are they seriously saying they cant afford a few breakfasts, especially towards the end of the run when the food would be thrown away anyway meaning its just a bit of gas (to cook the food) and water (to wash up afterwards) that is being wasted!

On WSMR we were told to travel in first class as it was a perk of the job only if the Steward and the Guard agreed if first was full then we had to sit in Standard. The only time we did not have to move was when we had a turn that was PNB & PASS from London to Banbury where we had an agreement where we would be fed on our break free of charge as the PNB was on the train. On the other hand Chiltern will charge an upgrade to any staff in Business class if they did not have an agreement including the directors.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Personally I never ask to sit in 1st but if it is offered I will take it!

 

[Starmill]

The conductor on duty will be based in the back cab or some other non-passenger area.

Isn't this very often not the case on Southern? On 377s guards are sometimes based by the wheelchair areas?

 

[A-driver]

Isn't this very often not the case on Southern? On 377s guards are sometimes based by the wheelchair areas?

They are not 'based' anywhere, they will be where they need to be to work the doors at the next stop or where they believe they are best positioned. There are no rules on exactly where they should sit or stand.

 

[455driver]

Personally I never ask to sit in 1st but if it is offered I will take it!

My sentiments exactly, I was told off (yes properly) on a XC train from Birmingham after my lad and I sat in Standard (after asking for a lift ) and the TM had assumed we would go into 1st.

The train wasnt busy so it was agreed that we would stay where we were but if it filled up we would move into the posh bit.

 

[9K43]

Some years ago, in the summer months I was with my driver coming back from York to Leeds, we asked the engine driver if we could ride in the back cab of his engine.
This permission was granted without and problems. The loco was a peak and we got off at Leeds.
We did this for a quiet life on the way home pass.
My driver was a Wath Man with 40 plus years in the job.
To me I was not bothered as I was going back to the Mill

 

[ExRes]

In the late 90's, just getting ready to bring the Dover - Willesden TPO up, I was approached by a heavily inebriated fellow Res driver from oop north who had been on the ferry buying his Christmas refreshments

He wanted a ride up to London in the back cab of the loco with his booze so he could then transfer onto the Down NETPO, after having a meal in the Royal Mail restaurant, naturally

He was most put out when I told him to swap some of his booze for a brain, I often have sleepless nights wondering how and when he got home .........

 

[168lover]

I recall around 3-4 years ago a member of Virgin Trains senior management discovered four Chiltern drivers in uniform tucking into a full breakfast on a peak time Birmingham Euston Pendo. No action was taken against the drivers, but the TM and catering crew got into trouble over it, and it led to a crackdown on drivers in uniform travelling in first class.

Just another way of chiltern trying and succeeding at stealing Virgins business. I think that it is a very good thing.*runs and hides*

 

[sarahj]

They are not 'based' anywhere, they will be where they need to be to work the doors at the next stop or where they believe they are best positioned. There are no rules on exactly where they should sit or stand.

Sometimes you plan to be where needed, and then it goes wrong. The other day I was working a 12 car down from london to littlehampton and at Worthing i was in coach 6. Middle of the train, perfect view for dispatch. A wheelchair was then put in coach 2, and they were going 1.5 mins down the line to West worthing. I knew that i would not make it through 5 coaches in time between the stations, so walked down the platform to coach 2 to be ready and dispatch. Of couse from coach 2 you cannot see the whole train, so dispatch took a while as I had to walk from the door each cycle* to see the whole train.

What is a bit anoying as well, your on a quiet train. No need to move from the wheelchair/toilet area PTOSL and then you end up with all the seats in that section taken and some bikes. Grrrr. Meanwhile all the other seats in the coach are dead. Some folks seem attracted to sit next to the toilet.

SJ

*cycle
Part 1. Check door are clear, then close the doors
Part 2. Check doors are closed, bill lights are off and people are clear.
Worthing has a curved platform, so on the down, with a 12 you need to be in the middle to see the whole train. Platform dispatch was removed 3-4 years ago. Crawley is the same, perhaps worse.