rail sleepers? rusty metal?

[truckman060473]

may or may not be but on the side of the line between Ferryside and Carmarthen are loads and loads of what look like rusty or tarnished metal sleepers. same shape and rail attachments as normal sleepers. there was a yellow cable running at least 1/4 mile right the way across them to a couple of lights (prob 110volt for lighting) anyone know anything regarding them? not the sort of material sleepers have ever been made from?

 

[TheExmoorBeast]

There are several locations around the network where they have used metal sleepers in lieu of the traditional wooden ones.

 

[TDK]

There are several locations around the network where they have used metal sleepers in lieu of the traditional wooden ones.

I think you missed concrete out there, metal sleepers are a lot lighter than their concrete counterparts so easier to manage and transport, as for wooden sleepers it is rare that they are replaced with wood anymore

 

[truckman060473]

old tradition was wooden yes and modern is concrete but is this some sort of new plan to replace concrete with metal? sounds odd to me!

 

[Old Timer]

Steel sleepers are used on secondary lines as a cheap method of renewal rather than using concrete. Changes to the cost of steel has made them somewhat less attractive right now.

 

[Broken Viking]

Possibly a little off the beaten track here (Pun not intended!), but steel sleepers are used extensively across the AKN lines around north-west Hamburg...Presumably to allow for faster line construction and maintenance.

The sleepers in question are clearly visible in This photo of Norderstedt Mitte - In front of the AKN diesel unit.

 

[Ty'n'wtre nr 2]

Recent renewals on the Cambrian have used these steel sleepers. When they relaid through here recently they had a nifty machine for placing the steel sleepers. A hydrex loaded a pack into the hopper and as it ran along the steel sleepers were dropped out at roughly the correct spacings, ready for rail laying. Much quicker than it would have been with concrete or wood.

It'll be interesting to see how long they last though.......

 

[Wyvern]

What about the track circuit?

 

[jopsuk]

Not everywhere uses track circuits. Many areas use axle counters instead, or have no such system- I think the RETB system doesn't use them, and neither does the ETCS level 2 installation that will replace the RETB along the Cambrian.

 

[Old Timer]

The rails are insulated from the sleepers by the rail pads.

Track circuit performance is an issue however.

 

[Wyvern]

I notice Matlock station has been relaid using steel sleepers.

Would track circuiting be necessary on token controlled single line?

 

[bengley]

There are loads of steel ones near Great Missenden (South, between Amersham and Missenden)

 

[TDK]

I notice Matlock station has been relaid using steel sleepers.

Would track circuiting be necessary on token controlled single line?

No generally, you sometime get short sections of track circuits on token lines but not for signalling as there are not any signals.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Not everywhere uses track circuits. Many areas use axle counters instead, or have no such system- I think the RETB system doesn't use them, and neither does the ETCS level 2 installation that will replace the RETB along the Cambrian.

The ertms project on the Cambrian has been known not to like the steel sleepers

 

[Railsigns]

Track circuits are not essential on any single line that employs a token or staff system, including electric token block, one train working, NSTR or RETB. Possession of the token/staff guarantees that the line is clear through the whole section, so there's no need for continuous train detection (meaning track circuits or axle counters). Local track circuits may be provided where needed to lock facing point locks or control level crossings for example, but the track circuiting doesn't need to be continuous.

ERTMS Level 2 does require continuous train detection. Although this will be achieved by axle counters on the Cambrian Lines, track circuits could have been used instead.

As for the presence or otherwise of signals on token controlled lines, lines worked by the traditional electric token block system are fully signalled with ordinary lineside signals.

 

[Barn]

The rails are insulated from the sleepers by the rail pads.

Track circuit performance is an issue however.

Layman's question, but do you know what voltage the running rails can carry? I only ask because I remember a display at the london transport museum which said that all four LUL rails can electrocute a person.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Layman's question, but do you know what voltage the running rails can carry? I only ask because I remember a display at the london transport museum which said that all four LUL rails can electrocute a person.

You won't get electrocuted from a track circuit, it is a very low voltage. You can get electrocuted from the 3rd and 4th rails though.

 

[bengley]

Layman's question, but do you know what voltage the running rails can carry? I only ask because I remember a display at the london transport museum which said that all four LUL rails can electrocute a person.

That's just propaganda to keep people off the tracks.

 

[TDK]

That's just propaganda to keep people off the tracks.

Thats a really clever answer on a public forum that is accessable by kids DOH!!!!!!!! The signs say do not step on any rail, would a 6 year old know the difference between a conductor rail and a running rail, I think not.

 

[ChrisCooper]

Thats a really clever answer on a public forum that is accessable by kids DOH!!!!!!!! The signs say do not step on any rail, would a 6 year old know the difference between a conductor rail and a running rail, I think not.

Would a 6 year old even understand what "propaganda" means? It has been pointed out that 2 of the rails can kill you, so anyone who doesn't know which rails are dangerous and which are "safe" and intends to find out by touching them is likely to go playing on the track regardless. I can see your point, but I don't think bengley's post is exactly going to encourage kids to go and start frying themselves on London Underground lines.

 

[The exile]

Recent renewals on the Cambrian have used these steel sleepers. When they relaid through here recently they had a nifty machine for placing the steel sleepers. A hydrex loaded a pack into the hopper and as it ran along the steel sleepers were dropped out at roughly the correct spacings, ready for rail laying. Much quicker than it would have been with concrete or wood.

It'll be interesting to see how long they last though.......

...well, judging by the ones on my local branch line here in northern Germany, not only will they last for a good 70 years, but can also withstand the worst the RAF (or anyone else!) can throw at them! Local signalman's answer to the question as to why most of the sleepers were welded down the middle (parallel to track) was that they were the "good bits" recovered after WW II. The dates on them at least make this possible!

 

[signaltech3]

The HVI (High Voltage Impulse) track circuit can give a nasty tingle as i have experience of! 120v a.c at its peak. however standard forms of track circuit are very unlikely to electrocute.

 

[jeanlee411]

Recent renewals on the Cambrian have used these steel sleepers. When they relaid through here recently they had a nifty machine for placing the steel sleepers. A hydrex loaded a pack into the hopper and as it ran along the steel sleepers were dropped out at roughly the correct spacings, ready for rail laying. Much quicker than it would have been with concrete or wood.

It'll be interesting to see how long they last though.......

 

[chappers]

Recent renewals on the Cambrian have used these steel sleepers. When they relaid through here recently they had a nifty machine for placing the steel sleepers. A hydrex loaded a pack into the hopper and as it ran along the steel sleepers were dropped out at roughly the correct spacings, ready for rail laying. Much quicker than it would have been with concrete or wood.

It'll be interesting to see how long they last though.......

I'd imagine the contraption you are referring to is the Philmoor sleeper layer. It is a decent piece of kit although it does have a habit of laying the spacings way off and the sleepers a bit skewed. It also used to flip the last sleeper in a stack upside down, but the last few times I have seen it this seems to have been elimated.

Regarding how long they last, its interesting to note that there has been no recorded evidence of a derailment on steels, so its not clear how much of a mess they would make.

I still prefer the NTC for a steel sleeper relay though.

 

[TGV]

I'd imagine the contraption you are referring to is the Philmoor sleeper layer. It is a decent piece of kit although it does have a habit of laying the spacings way off and the sleepers a bit skewed.

So, it's a decent bit of kit that doesn't lay sleepers straight or evenly spaced... sounds like a basic failure of function if you ask me!

Apart from that, it works fine though, right?!

 

[chappers]

So, it's a decent bit of kit that doesn't lay sleepers straight or evenly spaced... sounds like a basic failure of function if you ask me!

Apart from that, it works fine though, right?!

Hmmm true I didn't sell it very well!

It isn't a bad bit of kit to be fair - the point I was trying to make was although it gets the sleepers down quickly that is far from the finished article. You need a gang of trackmen following up to correctly space and line the sleepers (which they would be doing anyway) - this just takes a little longer as the alignment is a little more way off than it would be if say a concrete relay with the hydraulic bale.

 

[Ploughman]

I still prefer the NTC for a steel sleeper relay though.

Never tried that but the Fastline Slinger took some beating.
8 lengths or more every 15 minutes if fully crewed.
You could be taking out in front, dozing the bed as tight as possible to the last panel being taken out and the Slinger would be right behind you.

What has happened to it since the demise of Jarvis?

 

[chappers]

Never tried that but the Fastline Slinger took some beating.
8 lengths or more every 15 minutes if fully crewed.
You could be taking out in front, dozing the bed as tight as possible to the last panel being taken out and the Slinger would be right behind you.

What has happened to it since the demise of Jarvis?

Its still about, but is in limbo for the time being. I don't think anyone knows who is looking after it at the moment.

It is a good bit of kit in specific circumstances. It doesn't come cheap however!