Rail services in the West

[Mojo]

Hi all,

I have just got back from a Passenger Focus board meeting and a Bristol City Council meeting mostly discussing services in the West. I have summarised key points which may be of interest.

SWT penalty fares problems - guidelines to be set

TVMs don't issue all tickets and many are poorly sited

92% reliability is where money should be spent in other areas

Alison Forster presentation

HST reliablity improving

All coaches will be finished by 29th February - behind schedule

2+7 HSTs to be used on 60% of services, with journey time savings of up to 7 min, but benefits will be used to improve buffer times, NOT give shorter journeys

Unlikely to meet PPM target by year end

"Dmr 07 timetable won't be perfect" - AF

Class 180s go off lease in March

Only 9% use buffets

West DMU fleet is 50 - new TT needs 4 more, plus 2 to cover for refurb

142s will be used in Devon "NOT Bristol or on Cardiff to Portsmouth" - AF

Will be 12 units of 142s

142s will be refurbished

150s will replace 142s from June 2010 - coming from WM franchise

Turbo fleet refresh starting 2008

Robin Gisby (NR) presentation

"Western performance awful" - RG

"Western network tired" - RG

20 incidents >1000min delay in West

86% of relief lines to be 90mph by Jun 2008

Remodel of Airport Junction (£4.5mill) over Christmas and New Year 2007

City Council Meeting

Only partially improved service from December. FGW having rolling stock and staffing issues - 40 min service on Severn Beach line starting May.

Station upgrades to take place before then.

 

[Mintona]

Thanks for that, looks interesting. So the 150/0s for the south west then, good news

 

[Lewisham2221]

Thanks for that, looks interesting. So the 150/0s for the south west then, good news

That's the first time I've heard Central 150's and 'good news' mentioned together!

 

[Mintona]

That's the first time I've heard Central 150's and 'good news' mentioned together!

But got to be better than the 142s they will replace?

Any, people in the West Midlands might so "So, we're losing the Central 150s, fantastic news".

 

[Lewisham2221]

But got to be better than the 142s they will replace?

Any, people in the West Midlands might so "So, we're losing the Central 150s, fantastic news".

I wouldn't be so sure. The Northern fleet looks in pristine condition compared to the WM stuff.

 

[djw1981]

I don't think they will replace the 142's, so much as be added to them, in order to create 4 car DMU's instead of 2car, as happens on a few of the Northern services. Especially on tourist routes like the S&C.

 

[AlexS]

The West Midlands 150s are awful crates, enjoy them, ha!

If you think the Pacers and 150s you have now are bad, wait until you've had a 150/0 seat cushion detach itself despite your posterior weighing it down, sending you crashing to the floor.

 

[87015]

The West Midlands 150s are awful crates, enjoy them, ha!

Agreed, they are simply awful in most cases, and that is before they have however long being run-down as the new units are introduced. Hate to think what state they will be run into, mechanically and interior wise...hock:

Also £4.5m to remodel Airport Jn, that sounds like the next Ledburn fiasco!

 

[Mojo]

The route director said it was a good idea at the time, but simply doesn't work, and has caused major problems.

 

[djw1981]

The West Midlands 150s are awful crates, enjoy them, ha!

If you think the Pacers and 150s you have now are bad, wait until you've had a 150/0 seat cushion detach itself despite your posterior weighing it down, sending you crashing to the floor.

I imagine that as these units will be unallocated after leaving WM, that they will have a full internal refit before going to FGW.

Apart from the HST (1976) and Adelante's (2001), have GW franchise had any new trains, or just old stock cascaded?

 

[Mojo]

Despite being containing some of the most prosporus cities outside of London, all the area gets is castoffs.

 

[Bonemaster]

I would rather than have pacers than centro 150s they are the biggest hike going lets hope First have the foresight to rip them apart in a heavy refub before moving them down south

The South west has some of the most subsidised and rural lines in the uk, and Bristol is hardly as well served as Birmingham and Manchester in terms of commuters, getting brand new trains is unlikely to add up, although to be fair with the centro requirements for the interiors of 150s and 323s I am hardly hopeful that the 172s will be a quality design for passengers

 

[Dennis]

The South west has some of the most subsidised and rural lines in the uk

But First will be/are paying a significant premium to run the Great Western franchise so the rural lines in the SW are in reality being cross-subsidised internally by the other profitable parts of the franchise, so not really a good reason to deny FGW new stock, especially if the fact that both Central Trains and FSR, both of which have recieved new stock, get amongst the highest £/passenger mile subsidy is thrown into the argument.

 

[Mojo]

The branch lines in Devon & Cornwall maybe. But services in Greater Bristol are far behind that in other areas, despite Bristol contributing more to the economy than any other place outside London. The 2nd worst traffic congestion of the core cities and the massive increase in passenger numbers just shows that people want to use the trains which are simply not good enough.

 

[Dennis]

I certainly don't disagree that local services within and around Bristol are poor, but I'm hard pushed to think of a way of improving them without significant investment in new lines (which given the tram fiasco seems most unlikely).

Although the choice of rolling stock way have some influence on peoples modal choice, I can't help but think that the route / timetabling is what will govern whether 'local' services are a sucess. Just consider the growth of Valley Lines services, predominantly pacer based, yet providing a frequent, regular service between places where the demand exists.

Any suggestions as to how services in / around Bristol might be improved (cost effectively) to encourage people onto the railways?

 

[Bonemaster]

But First will be/are paying a significant premium to run the Great Western franchise so the rural lines in the SW are in reality being cross-subsidised internally by the other profitable parts of the franchise, so not really a good reason to deny FGW new stock, especially if the fact that both Central Trains and FSR, both of which have recieved new stock, get amongst the highest £/passenger mile subsidy is thrown into the argument.

That is a fair point however the intercity lines were profitable under BR hence the premium to the treasury, Bristol maybe deserves a better service however the infrastructure just isnt of the scale of Birmingham and Manchester. Economies of scale and government policy dictate a standard fleet policy as far as possible and with cross subsidisation of the poorer branch lines a poor fleet is sadly inevitable. Central Trains has the added complications of Centro that all council tax payers pay towards (myself included and its not cheap) for services. Central trains is not without its own branch lines.

FSR has the added complications of a pro rail scottish parliment to protect its interests, however I have not seen any new stock for the lines with the highest subsidy other than cast offs from other scottish lines

 

[Dennis]

I'm just being argumentative and trying to stir up sensible discussion; barring HST's, the majority of FGW services are operated by units which are only about 15-20 years old, which is in reality just over mid-life in railway terms. Spare a thought for those subjected to significantly older EMU's....

Regarding BM's comment on Scottish units - where do the 170's operate? Are they confined to what might be considered 'profitable corridors' or do they roam into 'loss making rural brachlines'?

 

[Bonemaster]

I'm just being argumentative and trying to stir up sensible discussion; barring HST's, the majority of FGW services are operated by units which are only about 15-20 years old, which is in reality just over mid-life in railway terms. Spare a thought for those subjected to significantly older EMU's....

Regarding BM's comment on Scottish units - where do the 170's operate? Are they confined to what might be considered 'profitable corridors' or do they roam into 'loss making rural brachlines'?

170s do not operate on either the West Highland line or the Far North line where subsidies are stupid, 170s operate on SPTE supported services or Intercity services, hardly trundling along branchlines.

The lines with the highest subsidy get 20 year old 156s and 158s in excess of 15 years old, not much newer than the pacers that the South West is getting

 

[Lewisham2221]

170s do not operate on either the West Highland line or the Far North line where subsidies are stupid, 170s operate on SPTE supported services or Intercity services, hardly trundling along branchlines.

The lines with the highest subsidy get 20 year old 156s and 158s in excess of 15 years old, not much newer than the pacers that the South West is getting

Which seems about right and follows just about every transport operators standard practice. It hardly makes economical sense to splash out loads of money for brand new trains that nobody is going to use.

 

[Mojo]

At last night's council meeting, there was discussion about the setting up of a PTE which will stop such incidens as the tram in the future.

We're already part way there with the £400k annual funding for the Severn Beach line for improved funding, but a PTE is what's stopping better things going further.

The problems are the same, despite the Conservatives promoting a PTE in Bristol, and a vote earlier in the year heard every Cllr vote in favour, the 3 Conservative controlled UAs in Greater Bristol still won't agree.

Even if they do vote in favour - they'll probably never agree on a name, the UAs around Leeds are happy with the idea of being tied in with Leeds, but a sensible name like "Greater Bristol" they are still not happy with, hence we're stuck with the daft name "The West of England partnership."

As Dave Redgewell (Transport 2000) said last night, if anything gets cut here, the authorities just sit quiet, but because of the unified voice in what used to be the West Midlands County, and what used to be Greater Manchester, they have more success in getting things done - even though they don't need it as much because of lower congestion levels and an already high number using public transport (50% into B'ham on weekdays).

In answer to what Dennis said, a Greater Bristol PTE would certaintly help, with a minimum half-hourly services on local lines (to be improved in the future). This could be combined with a free shuttle bus between Temple Meads & City Centre. My option would be to have local lines converted to light rail, or tram/train so they can better penetrate the City Centre.
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Here is a City Council press release: -

Improved Severn Beach Line service from May 2008

A new and improved train service will operate on the Severn Beach Line from May next year, thanks to a partnership between Bristol City Council and First Great Western.

This will provide travellers with three trains every two hours on weekdays and Saturdays - an improvement on the current hourly service.

For the first time, there will also be an hourly service on Sundays too.

The new timetable will run from May 2008, when the additional trains needed to run the improved timetable become available to First Great Western.

As well as the improved service beginning in the spring, a major investment programme to transform stations along the route will take place. Bristol City Council and First Great Western have together committed over £100,000 to the improvements, which include improved passenger security, information and ticket facilities.

Councillor Mark Bradshaw, Executive Member for Access and Environment, said: “The new, more frequent train service will greatly benefit passengers travelling to and from Bristol from surrounding areas. This service improvement will be complemented by the upgrading of stations along the route, making the whole travelling experience much more pleasant.

“This committed investment in service improvement, passenger information and station upgrading is vital if we are to make better use of our local rail infrastructure and to persuade more people to leave the car at home. The council will keep up the pressure for the full range of service improvements to be in place from next May.

“The council is disappointed that the new service won't be in operation from December 2007 as originally hoped, but we will keep pressing First Great Western to ensure they secure the additional rolling stock. We look forward to the new, improved Severn Beach Line service operating from May 2008.”

Andrew Griffiths, Regional Manager, First Great Western said: “When we sat
down with our community partners last year and drew up a Development Plan for the line, we never dreamed that the improvements contained in it could be delivered so soon.

“It's really great that the council share our vision for the line, and have made this substantial financial commitment to its upgrade.

“With the much more frequent train service and safer, more pleasant stations the Severn Beach Line will make a major impact on transport in the city, and be something the citizens of Bristol can truly be proud of."