Rail-Sea-Rail Tickets

[Ben Roper]

Hello All,

This is rather a bizarre question however I am hoping that someone here may be able to help me answer it.

A few months ago I was queuing at Telford train station and the lady in front of me purchased a return rail ticket to Paris via Portsmouth. At first I thought I may have miss heard however I am sure that this is what she asked for and received.

I have heard of rail-sea-rail tickets however I didn't think they existed anymore and I have never heard of them via Portsmouth (I'm presuming if they do exist they will sail to Le Havre).

I daren't ask the ticketing staff at the station for feer of being thought mad however I am intrigued to know if these exist and is so how one would go about buying a ticket.

Thanks is advance

Ben

 

[John @ home]

I have heard of rail-sea-rail tickets however I didn't think they existed anymore and I have never heard of them via Portsmouth

Rail-sea-rail tickets do still exist. A good source of information is seat61.

But my understanding is that there are currently no through ticketing arrangements in place for the LD Lines sailings between Portsmouth and Le Havre.

 

[wibble]

Rail-sea-rail tickets do still exist. A good source of information is seat61.

But my understanding is that there are currently no through ticketing arrangements in place for the LD Lines sailings between Portsmouth and Le Havre.

The only French ones I'm aware of are SouthEastern's rail-sea tickets via Dover. Maybe Telford is acting as an agent and is able to issue continental rail tickets...?

 

[Greenback]

Seat61 says that the last through fares were withdrawn in 2007.

 

[First class]

Ferry fares available are:

Any station - Jersey (CI)
Any station - Guernsey (CI)
Any FGW station - Scilly Isles (helicopter through fare also available)
Any station - Douglas (IOM)
Any station - Any Irish Station (NI/Republic via Fishguard, Holyhead or Stranraer)
Any station - Various Scottish Islands
Most NXEA stations - Netherlands (Dutchflyer)
Most SE Trains stations - Calais (via Dover)
Any station - Isle of Wight (via Southampton/Portsmouth)

Think that is all of the shipping links combined with National Rail products...

 

[Greenback]

So there seems to be no way to get a ticket from Telford to Paris via Portsmouth unless Telford station can issue sperate ferry and French train tickets?!

 

[First class]

So there seems to be no way to get a ticket from Telford to Paris via Portsmouth unless Telford station can issue sperate ferry and French train tickets?!

You CAN buy through European rail tickets originating from most UK stations, e.g. East Midlands Parkway-Avignon - however, these are issued by Eurostar, not a "normal" TOC.

What may have happened is that the customer had done this, had turned up at Telford and wanted to change time/date of travel which can't be done there.... but unsure about how Portsmouth would fit in unless she was trying to change her 'through' ticket to be valid to the continent via rail through Portsmouth.

 

[wintonian]

Was the lady in question successful in her purchase?

It’s possible she thought they were still available and then found out they aren’t anymore whilst at the ticket office.

 

[Greenback]

You CAN buy through European rail tickets originating from most UK stations, e.g. East Midlands Parkway-Avignon - however, these are issued by Eurostar, not a "normal" TOC.

What may have happened is that the customer had done this, had turned up at Telford and wanted to change time/date of travel which can't be done there.... but unsure about how Portsmouth would fit in unless she was trying to change her 'through' ticket to be valid to the continent via rail through Portsmouth.

Yes, the bit about Portsmouth is the spanner in the works, it implies use of a ferry, but could the customer have wanted a ticket to Portsmouth, followed by one from Portmsouth to Paris on the Eurostar? Is that possible from Portsmouth? (We can get through tickets from Swansea, but not Llanelli, apparently!)

 

[wintonian]

AFAIK you can't get through Eurostar tickets from any SWT station.

I have also thought about the possibility that Portsmouth might sound like somewhere else en-route but I can't think of anywhere that would.

 

[wibble]

AFAIK you can't get through Eurostar tickets from any SWT station.

I have also thought about the possibility that Portsmouth might sound like somewhere else en-route but I can't think of anywhere that would.

You can book through tickets from any SWT station with Eurostar. The Eurostar website is a bit selective as to which SWT stations you can buy them from, but fares have been set up for all SWT priced journeys.

 

[Oracle]

Can you still book via Dover-Calais foot passenger (through Priory)?

 

[Greenback]

I couldn't find anything on the Southeastern website about tickets to France.

 

[First class]

I couldn't find anything on the Southeastern website about tickets to France.

The fares (and journeys) appear on a STAR Machine and will allow you to issue the ticket...

Also appears in Avantix.

Will check FRPP.

 

[wintonian]

Ahh ok the through Eurostar SWT thing I assume is fairly recent then? - I have never seen it advertised but that’s not unusual.

The sailrail is £27.50 for a return from London £47.50 Woking and priced by SouthEastern. I think if available (there is another thread somewhere where I don't think we came to a conclusion) is only available (I think) from London or the Southeast and not from the likes of Portsmouth, Winchester or Southampton.

It would be most interesting to see what the FRPP says and could some helpful person find out where and how a passenger can get one of these issued?

And if someone wanted to write a letter to find out about this ticket who would one send it to ATOC/ SET?

 

[First class]

Ahh ok the through Eurostar SWT thing I assume is fairly recent then? - I have never seen it advertised but that’s not unusual.

The sailrail is £27.50 for a return from London £47.50 Woking and priced by SouthEastern. I think if available (there is another thread somewhere where I don't think we came to a conclusion) is only available (I think) from London or the Southeast and not from the likes of Portsmouth, Winchester or Southampton.

It would be most interesting to see what the FRPP says and could some helpful person find out where and how a passenger can get one of these issued?

And if someone wanted to write a letter to find out about this ticket who would one send it to ATOC/ SET?

A passenger goes to the station (London Euston) for example and asks for a return to Calais.

They issue it... travel to Dover and get the ferry

I'd write to SET. I imagine ATOC would just refer you to them in the first instance anyway.

The through Eurostar tickets have been around for at least a year!

 

[Greenback]

The fares (and journeys) appear on a STAR Machine and will allow you to issue the ticket...

Also appears in Avantix.

Will check FRPP.

How does the gerneral public know these tickets exist?! It doesn;t look like Southeastern have publicised them anywhere that is easily accessible! Has anyone found them on NRE?

 

[wintonian]

A passenger goes to the station (London Euston) for example and asks for a return to Calais.

They issue it... travel to Dover and get the ferry

I'd write to SET. I imagine ATOC would just refer you to them in the first instance anyway.

The through Eurostar tickets have been around for at least a year!

Or in my case walk in to any ticket office you like and be told in no uncertain terms that they haven't existed for years and the fact that a fare exists does not mean that a ticket can be issued.

 

[First class]

Or in my case walk in to any ticket office you like and be told in no uncertain terms that they haven't existed for years and the fact that a fare exists does not mean that a ticket can be issued.

But the fare is being 'maintained' - it is active and appears in a FRPP fares search.

There has been no guidance issued saying don't issue it, (either past or present), and the systems are still active to let you book and sell it.

I'd issue the ticket-

a) No guidance says you shouldn't
b) The fare exists in the normal way
c) If the TOC didn't want the ticket to be sold, it shouldn't be there.

I think SET need to clarify this.

 

[wintonian]

I am inclined to agree with you since at some point I discovered that the fare actually increased in January with the others, which would beg the question of why would a fare increase if it can't be issued?

 

[wintonian]

A little belated but I have had an e-mail back from SET regarding this:

Dear Mr <name>

Thank you for your email of <date>.

In answer to your enquiry, it is possible to purchase tickets for travel between London and Calais from our ticket offices. They may also be purchased online at raileasy.co.uk.

Thank you once more for contacting us.

Yours sincerely

<name>
Customer Services Officer
Southeastern

Now waiting to see if they can be bought from any station with a ticket office.

 

[wintonian]

I have received a more detailed response from Southeastern:

Dear Mr <name>

Thank you for your website comment that we received on <date>.

Shipping links to Calais

Further to your enquiry, I should first of all confirm that there are no direct shipping links to Calais from St Pancras station on the Highspeed (HS1) service. Calais tickets can be purchased from any Train Operating Company. Normal Anytime Day Return tickets may be issued by ticket machines. Anytime Day Return time restrictions do not apply to Anytime Day Return tickets issued under this arrangement as passengers may travel by any (non HS1) train to the Channel Port.

The following links are available:

Calais H426 via Dover Eastern Docks & P&O Stena Line (850)

From Adult Child Railcard
Adult Railcard
Child
London (Not HS1) 27.50 13.75 18.15 7.35
Abbey Wood, Bromley South, Catford, Dartford, Orpington, Woolwich Arsenal 23.50 11.75 19.20 7.05
Gravesend, Sevenoaks 23.00 11.50 15.20 6.75
Chatham, Gillingham, Hastings, Paddock Wood, Rainham, Sittingbourne, Tonbridge, Tunbridge Wells 20.00 10.00 16.90 6.40
Faversham, Herne Bay, Margate 17.50 8.75 15.25 5.90
Ashford, Canterbury 17.50 8.75 15.25 5.90
Guildford, Woking 47.50 23.75 31.35 8.50
Clapham Junction, East Croydon, Richmond, Surbiton, Wimbledon 48.50 24.25 32.00 7.70

• Interchange station: Dover Priory (with bus link to Dover Eastern Docks)
• Shipping operator: P&O Stena Line
• Through Rail/Sea Day Return bookings are available to: Calais H426 via Dover Eastern Docks & P&O Stena Line (850)
• Customers must be in possession of valid passports when travelling to the Continent

As a general guide, passengers should allow a minimum of 45 minutes from the arrival time at the coastal station to connect with a sailing on the outward journey and a similar margin from arrival of the return journey for customers to clear customs and get to the station. Where journeys are affected by engineering work, please ensure that it is possible to connect with the maritime service in both directions before making the booking.

Buses operate between Dover Priory and Dover Eastern Docks and between Calais Port and Calais Town Centre for which a modest charge is made in each direction. In all cases, customers should check the times of their return transfers on arrival at their destination.

The Adult reduced fares shown above are applicable to Railcard holders. The Railcard child fares are applicable up to a maximum of 4 children (aged 5 to 15 years) accompanying the holders of Network Railcard, Gold Card, Family & Friends Railcard and HM Forces Railcards. Children accompanying 16-25 and Disabled Persons Railcards must pay the full child fare shown. Normal conditions apply to all Railcard holders (e.g. Network Railcard holders - maximum 4 adults travelling together; Family & Friends Railcard holders must be accompanied by a child and so on).

The normal Monday to Friday morning peak travel restrictions on the use of certain railcards (e.g. Network Railcards not before 1000) are waived in respect of Railcard holders (and any accompanying children) travelling on these day trips. A first class supplement is only available to Gold Card holders and that is only at weekends. Whilst every assistance will be given, Disabled Persons Railcard customers should be warned that as a bus link operates between station and port they may encounter difficulty if in a wheelchair.
Advance Reservations are not possible on P&O Ferries to Calais. Reservations are no longer essential, passengers travel subject to availability.

I hope this helps to clarify the position, and thank you for your enquiry.

Yours sincerely

<name>
Customer Relations Officer
Southeastern

Quite how anyone is supposed to know that these are not valid via HS1 without specifically asking (rather like the whole ticket) is beyond me, and I would like to know which/ whose ticket machines are referred to that can issue these?

But a rather helpful and detailed response I thought.

 

[paul1609]

Calais is a destination on the tvm at ashford int domestic station not tried to buy one though