Rail replacement rights

[jetsetwilly]

I bought tickets last month for a journey in Sept Leeds to Ipswich day return.

There are now serious delays to the return leg due to rail replacement buses.

I should have got back to Leeds at 21:15 - but now due in at 22:55 which means I will miss the last bus home,

There is an earlier train that goes via London (avoiding Ely where the delays are). I have been told that I can't use this alternative as my ticket is only foir the specified train (even though that is no longer running).

I am inclined not to travel and get a full refund but is there any way I can get the earlier train on my advance ticket?

 

[Wallsendmag]

You can apply for a full refund under the Travel with Confidence scheme and then simply rebook on the earlier train.

 

[jetsetwilly]

Yeah not really an option as the original ticket was "20, current prices not nearer to 80.

 

[hkstudent]

You don't need to go through the Travel with Confidence scheme. I bought tickets last month for a journey in Sept Leeds to Ipswich day return.

There are now serious delays to the return leg due to rail replacement buses.

I should have got back to Leeds at 21:15 - but now due in at 22:55 which means I will miss the last bus home,

There is an earlier train that goes via London (avoiding Ely where the delays are). I have been told that I can't use this alternative as my ticket is only foir the specified train (even though that is no longer running).

I am inclined not to travel and get a full refund but is there any way I can get the earlier train on my advance ticket?

By the means of bus, you mean coach (National Express?)?

As the train has altered the timetable, and you have booked the ticket before the alteration,
you are also eligible to claim a delay repay of the ticket, which is 100% compensation of the ticket, which would likely cover the TPE train cost to Stalybridge + taxi cost from the station to your home. Though the claim may not be straightforward and would require emailing customer service instead of getting to the standard delay repay system.

Also, there are some cases of travelling on an earlier train (with the same route) to allow you to arrive earlier (despite still having a longer journey time). (That would require some clarification from other forum members)


BTW. alteration of train schedule after booking entitles the traveller to do a full refund without administration fee from the original retailer. You don't need to go through the Travel With Confidence Scheme.


N.B. Next time, when you travel with Advance ticket, try to book a leg of a separate ticket to your nearest train station (Rochdale / Mills Hill / Ashton), so that at the worst-case scenario of delays and missed the last connection, you will still be entitled to an alternative travel or overnight accommodation.
[Leeds - Rochdale advance ticket is usually about £3 - 5 one-way, which would be a very nice insurance, and saves your walking time to Leeds Bus Station]

 

[pdeaves]

alteration of train schedule after booking entitles the traveller to do a full refund without administration fee from the original retailer.

The refund element is easy (comparatively). I think the issue comes in booking on an alternative train and finding that all fares at the original (refunded) price have gone.

 

[island]

You can apply for a refund if you wish, or contact the customer services to discuss the cost and possibility around travelling earlier. You can also travel as booked and apply for DelayRepay but you may have a job on your hands actually getting paid out.

Unfortunately the non-availability of non-railway connections at the new arrival time isn’t something that the railway is responsible for.

 

[hkstudent]

You can apply for a refund if you wish, or contact the customer services to discuss the cost and possibility around travelling earlier. You can also travel as booked and apply for DelayRepay but you may have a job on your hands actually getting paid out.

Unfortunately the non-availability of non-railway connections at the new arrival time isn’t something that the railway is responsible for.

Yeah, and that's the importance of booking a railway connection to the nearest point to home (even with a separate ticket), to make sure missed last connection protection is there...

 

[jetsetwilly]

By the means of bus, you mean coach (National Express?)?

As the train has altered the timetable, and you have booked the ticket before the alteration,
you are also eligible to claim a delay repay of the ticket, which is 100% compensation of the ticket, which would likely cover the TPE train cost to Stalybridge + taxi cost from the station to your home. Though the claim may not be straightforward and would require emailing customer service instead of getting to the standard delay repay system.

Also, there are some cases of travelling on an earlier train (with the same route) to allow you to arrive earlier (despite still having a longer journey time). (That would require some clarification from other forum members)


BTW. alteration of train schedule after booking entitles the traveller to do a full refund without administration fee from the original retailer. You don't need to go through the Travel With Confidence Scheme.


N.B. Next time, when you travel with Advance ticket, try to book a leg of a separate ticket to your nearest train station (Rochdale / Mills Hill / Ashton), so that at the worst-case scenario of delays and missed the last connection, you will still be entitled to an alternative travel or overnight accommodation.
[Leeds - Rochdale advance ticket is usually about £3 - 5 one-way, which would be a very nice insurance, and saves your walking time to Leeds Bus Station]

Thanks

I live near Leeds so not sure why you have mentioned Stalybridge etc.

If Greater Anglia will let me use the ticket to get to London, I can get a cheapish ticket to Leeds. Once I get my money back for the late running of my original ticket, I won't be much out of pocket. Getting Greater Anglia to confirm is not proving to be easy though

 

[sonic2009]

What date are you travelling on please? And your final destination is Leeds with a bus to where?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Aug 2021 ==

Thanks

I live near Leeds so not sure why you have mentioned Stalybridge etc.

If Greater Anglia will let me use the ticket to get to London, I can get a cheapish ticket to Leeds. Once I get my money back for the late running of my original ticket, I won't be much out of pocket. Getting Greater Anglia to confirm is not proving to be easy though

The poster may have mentioned Stalybridge as your location on your profile mentions Oldham.

Joined 16 Aug 2021 Messages 3 Location Oldham

 

[jetsetwilly]

What date are you travelling on please? And your final destination is Leeds with a bus to where?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Aug 2021 ==



The poster may have mentioned Stalybridge as your location on your profile mentions Oldham.

11th Sept - Bus was Leeds to Cleckheaton

 

[sonic2009]

11th Sept - Bus was Leeds to Cleckheaton

Okay so your travelling from Leeds - Ipswich and back on the 11th Sept? What time was your departure from Leeds, and how long do you require in Ipswich?

 

[jetsetwilly]

Okay so your travelling from Leeds - Ipswich and back on the 11th Sept? What time was your departure from Leeds, and how long do you require in Ipswich?

I leave from Leeds at 9:15am or something like that. I'm going for football, so can't leave before 5pm

 

[sonic2009]

I leave from Leeds at 9:15am or something like that. I'm going for football, so can't leave before 5pm

What tickets do you already have?

 

[jetsetwilly]

Advances singles. Greater Anglian saying I have to go on this route, can't go into London to get an earlier LNER train

 

[sonic2009]

Advances singles. Greater Anglian saying I have to go on this route, can't go into London to get an earlier LNER train

Okay, as the timetable has now changed you should be entitled to a full refund of the ticket without incurring any admin fees - Does your outward journey still get you to Ipswich for the football ko time?

Trainsplit will offer me this itinerary on the 11th Sept for the return with arrival into Leeds into plenty of time for your last bus to Cleckheaton, with the total cost for the tickets £37.90.



Ipswich 1741
Stratford (London) 1843

Stratford (London) 1851
Highbury & Islington 1905

Highbury & Islington 1911
Finsbury Park 1916

Finsbury Park 1924
Stevenage 1943

Stevenage 1955
Leeds 2145

Your Tickets

	Price	Description
Ipswich to London Underground Zone 2 Advance Single (OS1)	£11.70	Only valid on booked Greater Anglia services and required connecting services. Restriction OB applies - click for details
Highbury & Islington to Stevenage Super Off-Peak Single (CBB)	£11.90	Restriction FB applies - click for details
Stevenage to Leeds Advance Single (BPS)	£14.30	Only valid on the booked London North Eastern Railway services to/from Peterborough and required connecting services. Restriction GC applies - click for details

 

[Starmill]

How much would it cost to book a taxi to pick you up at Leeds? Is there a local company who will take a booking in advance? If a taxi is cheaper than the compensation you could be eligible for, i.e. the price of the ticket from Ipswich to Leeds, then that may well be a convenient option. If a taxi fare would be much greater than the hypothetical compensation however that's not much use.

 

[sonic2009]

How much would it cost to book a taxi to pick you up at Leeds? Is there a local company who will take a booking in advance? If a taxi is cheaper than the compensation you could be eligible for, i.e. the price of the ticket from Ipswich to Leeds, then that may well be a convenient option. If a taxi fare would be much greater than the hypothetical compensation however that's not much use.

A very good point, even without booking a local company, Uber may be an option in Leeds?

 

[hkstudent]

Thanks

I live near Leeds so not sure why you have mentioned Stalybridge etc.

If Greater Anglia will let me use the ticket to get to London, I can get a cheapish ticket to Leeds. Once I get my money back for the late running of my original ticket, I won't be much out of pocket. Getting Greater Anglia to confirm is not proving to be easy though

Alright, I think I have mistaken likely, as you have put Oldham (Greater Manchester) as your location.

 

[30907]

Am I right that your ticket is routed PETERBOROUGH AND LNER or similar?
There is a connection via Cambridge and Stevenage departing 1720 which I suggest LNER might authorise you to use - I appreciate that might be tight for the end of the match, but it gets you on your original train.
(Corrected: half an hour later)

Alternatively, the Delay Repay should cover a Uber from Leeds or Dewsbury or Bradford (your revised train takes you via York and on the last York-Blackpool, and there is a Dewsbury connection at Leeds).

 

[Haywain]

I can get a cheapish ticket to Leeds. Once I get my money back for the late running of my original ticket, I won't be much out of pocket

You seem to be suggesting claiming Delay Repay on your original ticket whilst travelling with a different ticket on a later train. You are not eligible for Delay Repay if you do not travel on the service for which you claim.

 

[jon0844]

Seems like an authority to travel would save a lot of hassle for all concerned, if you could get the appropriate TOC to agree and issue it.

 

[jetsetwilly]

Thanks for all of the advice etc.

The Ipswich to Leeds advance ticket was only £9 with a rail card (my son's was £3). So I won't get much of a refund, making all the other options a lot more expensive.

I'm now thinking that I will travel on the delayed service.

If I were to buy a single from Leeds to Mirfield, my original ticket would have got me to Leeds on time, the delayed service will miss the last train of the evening. Will they have to put me in a taxi?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Aug 2021 ==

Am I right that your ticket is routed PETERBOROUGH AND LNER or similar?
There is a connection via Cambridge and Stevenage departing 1720 which I suggest LNER might authorise you to use - I appreciate that might be tight for the end of the match, but it gets you on your original train.

Yes

That departure would work (17:20). The first section is Greater Anglia so that might be ok, however, the second train seems to be Thameslink so can't see how I would be allowed to use that train. It also only appears to go to Stevanage, so wouldn't get me to Peterborough. The train I have a ticket for is the 19:51 from Peterborough to Leeds.

 

[30907]

That departure would work (17:20). The first section is Greater Anglia so that might be ok, however, the second train seems to be Thameslink so can't see how I would be allowed to use that train. It also only appears to go to Stevanage, so wouldn't get me to Peterborough. The train I have a ticket for is the 19:51 from Peterborough to Leeds.

Looking more closely, as your ticket is routed PETERBOROUGH AND LNER it seems to exclude the use of Thameslink, but LNER could authorise you to go that way. From Stevenage to Peterborough you are on their train anyway, though you wouldn't have reserved seats.
I would try asking!

I'm now thinking that I will travel on the delayed service.

If I were to buy a single from Leeds to Mirfield, my original ticket would have got me to Leeds on time, the delayed service will miss the last train of the evening. Will they have to put me in a taxi?

They should do so, if you show them your original itinerary, even though you have split your ticket, but are only required to get you as far as Mirfield station.
You might find you have to book your own taxi and argue with LNER over the refund.

 

[Watershed]

Looking more closely, as your ticket is routed PETERBOROUGH AND LNER it seems to exclude the use of Thameslink, but LNER could authorise you to go that way. From Stevenage to Peterborough you are on their train anyway, though you might not be able to sit in your reserved seat.
I would try asking!

Route PETERBOROUGH AND LNER does not preclude the use of Thameslink, or any other operator for that matter. There are lots of flows with that route where you'd be given an itinerary including Thameslink services, for example Hitchin to Leeds. It's 'translated' to the following on online journey planners:

Only valid on the booked London North Eastern Railway services to/from Peterborough and required connecting services.

 

[jetsetwilly]

The train I am booked on from Peterborough to Leeds doesn't go via Stevenage and LNER says they won't include travel from London to Peterborough.

The taxi option to Mirield is fine, I live on route so I 'm sure I can get out early.

I can't believe I don't have the right to travel on any suitable train given that they can't honour my original booking. What would happen if I just got on the earlier train and refused to buy another ticket?

 

[Darandio]

What would happen if I just got on the earlier train and refused to buy another ticket?

Then you would be travelling without a valid ticket and could be reported for prosecution which would succeed in this case.

 

[Watershed]

The train I am booked on from Peterborough to Leeds doesn't go via Stevenage and LNER says they won't include travel from London to Peterborough.

The taxi option to Mirield is fine, I live on route so I 'm sure I can get out early.

I can't believe I don't have the right to travel on any suitable train given that they can't honour my original booking. What would happen if I just got on the earlier train and refused to buy another ticket?

Your onward travel from your destination station is a separate issue. Unless you bought a train and bus ticket to Cleckheaton, you won't have any recourse from LNER etc. for missing the last bus and having to take a taxi. Buying a ticket to Mirfield at this stage, when you know you can't possibly make the train, is not going to help you very much.

As I understand the train you were due to catch from Ipswich has been cancelled or otherwise disrupted, you are entitled to take the next train towards your destination which complies with the restrictions shown on your ticket.

As your ticket is routed Peterborough & LNER, you are perfectly at liberty to travel via London if that's the next available connection. Nothing in that route precludes that, and the fact you were originally booked on a given LNER service from Peterborough is irrelevant when your whole itinerary has been thrown off by the changes/disruption.

Mind you, you're likely to have to pay for the Tube to cross London, unless you took (say) Great Northern from Moorgate.

There is no explicit right to travel on an earlier service if your booked service is cancelled/disrupted. You would need to rely on the argument that it's implicitly required under consumer law (particularly, the obligation to provide the service with reasonable care and skill - RCAS).

I really wouldn't want to be arguing the toss over consumer law with a member of staff who likely has never even heard of the duty of RCAS, when it's a matter of potentially £100s if they make you buy a new Anytime Single.

It's probably best just to 'eat' the loss by travelling on the next available service after your booked one, and claiming delay compensation as appropriate to the delay you end up experiencing.

 

[jetsetwilly]

"As your ticket is routed Peterborough & LNER, you are perfectly at liberty to travel via London if that's the next available connection. Nothing in that route precludes that, and the fact you were originally booked on a given LNER service from Peterborough is irrelevant when your whole itinerary has been thrown off by the changes/disruption."

Thanks

My ticket is Ipswich to Leeds. The service I was due to get 17:58 now has rail replacement so gets into Peterborough too late to get the planned LNER to Leeds. I think the delays on later services are due to trains from Doncaster to Leeds going via York!!!!

Greater Anglia say I might be able to go via London (I have to speak to a manager), but LNER are clear that I can't use my ticket on the London to Peterborough leg of my journey.

 

[skyhigh]

If I were to buy a single from Leeds to Mirfield, my original ticket would have got me to Leeds on time, the delayed service will miss the last train of the evening. Will they have to put me in a taxi

If you buy the connecting ticket after the updated timetable with replacement buses is published, knowing that you would be too late to make it, I doubt you'd have much luck getting a taxi.

 

[30907]

Route PETERBOROUGH AND LNER does not preclude the use of Thameslink, or any other operator for that matter. There are lots of flows with that route where you'd be given an itinerary including Thameslink services, for example Hitchin to Leeds. It's 'translated' to the following on online journey planners:

Unfortunately, I looked at the detail in BRFares for the cheapest tier of Advances, which reads as below, hence my comments - however, other tiers have different wording, which covers TL.
Exactly the same inconsistency applies with Hitchin, so you may be right.

Connecting travel (where permitted by routeing) is allowed on:
GREATER ANGLIA, SOUTHERN, NORTHERN, SCOTRAIL,
SOUTH WESTERN RAILWAY, SERCO CALEDONIAN SLEEPER, HEATHROW EXPRESS, EAST MIDLANDS RAILWAY,
TRANSPENNINE EXPRESS, GWR, CROSSCOUNTRY, WEST MIDLANDS TRAINS

There is a further complication, which I didn't notice earlier, that going this way doesn't put you on your original train at Peterborough, and you are 30min later into Leeds anyway. I have annotated upthread, and apologise.

One other way forward is to spend £40-odd on new tickets (GA to London, then the 1957 Grand Central service to Mirfield) and write LNER customer services complaining at how out of pocket you are - you might get a reasonable amount in vouchers as a goodwill gesture...

But I would be inclined to persist with LNER over the Stevenage route....