Rail replacement - for the customers/for the TOCs?

[Aictos]

I guess busses are different but taxis are paid in mileage and many companies track them. When my TOC gets us taxis to or from work they must be booked to our nearest station, not out house. I live closer to my depot than nearest station so always ask the taxi driver to drop me at the side of the road he needs to drive down to get to my local station. They all will but they will then carry on to the station as that's the only way they will get paid for what they are booked-they are paid on mileage.

You are quite right in the above, our TOC for one does actually track taxi useage and the taxis are paid in mileage.

For example if a staff taxi is booked to do Peterborough depot to Kings Cross depot picking up at Letchworth Garden City station, even though Hitchin is quite close, it's a big no no for a extra stop to be put on for Hitchin without prior permission from control.

As to rail replacement services, for Peterborough to Stevenage I think there ought to be two services in operation - one to run non stop between Peterborough and Stevenage and one to call all stations that way everyone is happy

 

[A-driver]

You are quite right in the above, our TOC for one does actually track taxi useage and the taxis are paid in mileage.

For example if a staff taxi is booked to do Peterborough depot to Kings Cross depot picking up at Letchworth Garden City station, even though Hitchin is quite close, it's a big no no for a extra stop to be put on for Hitchin without prior permission from control.

As to rail replacement services, for Peterborough to Stevenage I think there ought to be two services in operation - one to run non stop between Peterborough and Stevenage and one to call all stations that way everyone is happy

FCC often do run fast buses along with stoppers, generally not late at night though as the passenger numbers mean they can all fit on a single bus so paying 2 buses is a waste.

 

[Deerfold]

How easy would it be for the TOCs to just tell coach companies to observe all stops en route? It would be much better customer service.

If they did this the service would have to be registered with the traffic commissioners several weeks in advance as a normal bus service is. Rail replacement buses don't have to do this so long as they only serve stations.

Rail replacement buses do often make 1 stop in Hitchin Town Centre (which is a good way from the station and where many people will be returning to).

I have been dropped off by an RRB before now - but only where we were the only passengers left on the bus. On the same run I've not been allowed to and had to walk back along the route the bus took for 1.5 miles - but it's only the same walk I'd have had to do if the train was running.

 

[yorksrob]

Late night replacement is a particular bugbear of mine since it lulls you into a false sense of security (as the trains have been running normally the rest of the day), it's likely to make you miss your connection and when you miss your connection they'll leave you stranded as its a planned engineering work and "you should have known about it beforehand" !

 

[jb]

The snag with this sort of 'discretion' is that people don't recognise it as a 'favour' when a driver does do something (or does it for someone else), and they then make one heck of a fuss when a driver doesn't do something (or doesn't do it for them) in a different set of circumstances.

Welcome to the world.

 

[lincolnshire]

When I come back off holiday by plane, do you think the pilot will mind dropping in at Humberside Airport to save me going all the way to Manchester Airport, as he will be passing that way en-route?

If its good enough for rail repolacemnet then it should be good enough for all forms of transport then?

Who is going to be first to ask then? Think not, lets just be all happy we are at least getting back to the station you usually get off at and not left miles from home.

 

[Chrisgr31]

When I come back off holiday by plane, do you think the pilot will mind dropping in at Humberside Airport to save me going all the way to Manchester Airport, as he will be passing that way en-route?

If its good enough for rail repolacemnet then it should be good enough for all forms of transport then?

Who is going to be first to ask then? Think not, lets just be all happy we are at least getting back to the station you usually get off at and not left miles from home.

Course not as you were the flight is not a replacement flight and no one who is suggesting that on occasions replacement buses should mkae additional stops is suggesting trains should make additional stops. However lets assume your flight was diverted to Humberside Airport due to bad weather, would it then be reasonable for the airline to insist on bussing you the whole way to Manchester only for you to have to make your own way back again. If your car was at Manchester it would be helpful to go to Manchester, if however you are bing collected it wouldn't.

 

[LE Greys]

Course not as you were the flight is not a replacement flight and no one who is suggesting that on occasions replacement buses should mkae additional stops is suggesting trains should make additional stops. However lets assume your flight was diverted to Humberside Airport due to bad weather, would it then be reasonable for the airline to insist on bussing you the whole way to Manchester only for you to have to make your own way back again. If your car was at Manchester it would be helpful to go to Manchester, if however you are bing collected it wouldn't.

There was a case a few years ago where an incoming flight from India to Heathrow got diverted to Gatwick, then sat on the tarmac for nine hours with the doors closed. The Police had to be called to deal with some of the passengers, who were understandably frustrated.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/16/police-passengers-stranded-plane

Of course, if you want to make an 'unadvertised stop' in an aircraft, you could always bring a parachute!

 

[Chrisgr31]

Incidentially the station staff at my station must have read this thread. The Customer Information Displays at the station are informing us of travel disruption at the weekend due to engineering works but today notices have appeared on the Booking Office doors telling us that the last train is a bus replacement service this week.

Which only goes to prove that someone at Network Rail is booking emgineering work based on entries in my diary because Thursday is one of the few days when I have to get the last train home. I might catch the last train 4 or 5 times a year and virtually every time its a bus!

 

[Antman]

Welcome to the world.

Which world is that? Here in the real world passengers do see it as a favour and are grateful to the driver, somebody I know who regularly does rail replacement work said he would always oblige to any reasonable request to be dropped off en route and so far has never had any problem when doing so. I mean if somebody was ill and about to be sick you'd have to stop the bus wouldn't you?

 

[noddingdonkey]

I've noticed that there's usually more chance of a RRB service being provided if train disruption is down to a problem that is NR's fault (or at least that they pay for) rather than the TOC's responsibility.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Actually the reason that Rail Replacement Buses cannot stop anywhere is due to licensing, and by default the insurance as a result.

All bus services which run to a timetable and for which a fare is charged have to be authorised by the local area traffic commissioner. I can't link from my phone, but when a bus company wants to run any fare paying service then they must apply for permission and state the timetable. These applications are regularly posted online. Even a change to a timetable requires authorisation.

Part of the licensing of stage carriage (fare paying) bus services is that the operator has to have the relevant licence and they must comply with the legal requirements, one of which includes stopping places. Essentially these are only recognised bus stops, except on sections of route authorised to be "hail and ride" which is generally ultra rural areas or estates.

When a bus replaces a train they do not have to go through the same process as it is just a direct replacement to the rail service, and replacing it with a bus is exempt from that process - although the coach operator must still have the relevant licence to do hire and reward. Should that bus service start stopping all over the place then it does not become a direct replacement for the train and hence would fall foul of the relevant licensing for bus services.

The bus operators insurance company would no doubt not be very pleased if there was some sort of incident which occurred while the bus operator was doing something they were not licensed for.