Rail Replacement Buses for Staff Travel

[theironroad]

I think the main point is being missed. ALSEF advice is not to travel in a RRB during this pandemic. @Economist 's TOC is either have an agreement with ASLEF and their local reps are allowing it to happen or they are doing this without ASLEF sanction and their local reps are not challenging the TOC. Either way, this is a bad showing for ASLEF and for the TOC. Why issue the advice then turn a blind eye when it is ignored ?

For those that think ASLEF are all powerful and control the TOCs this is clearly an example where they have zero power or they are capitulating or just kissing the ring behind closed doors.

Tbh, I think this thread is conflating what normally happens in a pre covid world and what's happening now.

In normal times my toc will use rrb whenever it can for crew but tbf that's not happening at moment and a vehicle that can comply with social distancing is used for all pre programmed diagrams and afaik whenever possible during disruption.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wow. That is unacceptable! I know we all moan about our TOCs at times, but I'm quite glad we've got the arrangement we have!

I can't imagine they will be at any more danger taking the Tube as a passenger than they will having to herd said drunks on the train they're about to work!

 

[ComUtoR]

Tbh, I think this thread is conflating what normally happens in a pre covid world and what's happening now.

Agreed.

My TOC uses RRB all the time and you are expected to PASS on it. No real issues tbh. The current situation is kinda crazy. Lots of advice is being issued then simply ignored. I can see what @Economist is upset. At a time where good leadership is needed and where a consistent message is needed, I too, would struggle where this was lacking. I understand where @Economist is coming from if other TOCs were handling the situation well and where ASLEF leadership was pushing clear advice and ensuring it is being followed. I understand if he would then look for a different TOC.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Some from memory are:
SWR Class 455/456/707
LNWR Class 139
TFL Rail Class 345
London Overground Class 378/710

I don’t think it should be allowed in general, in a non-Covid world either. Buses are often late or don’t show up, so it makes better sense to put train crew in a taxi.

Isn’t the solution to that to work on the reliability of the buses?

The buses aren’t run for the sake of it, in fact we are all employed by the railway to effectively shift goods and passengers, it’s not very good for the people we are employed to move find the replacement transport doesn’t appear. If the buses are that unreliable using your logic taxis should be provided for the passengers too!?

 

[43066]

Isn’t the solution to that to work on the reliability of the buses?

The buses aren’t run for the sake of it, in fact we are all employed by the railway to effectively shift goods and passengers, it’s not very good for the people we are employed to move find the replacement transport doesn’t appear. If the buses are that unreliable using your logic taxis should be provided for the passengers too!?

There are *a lot* more passengers than there are train crew, and it’s rather more expensive than the price of a taxi when a service is cancelled because the driver/guard/both are stuck on a bus in the middle of nowhere.

EDIT: and as for RRBs being “run for the sake of it”, they sort of are, in the sense that they’re such a poor substitute that the majority of passengers simply avoid using them, myself included.

They’re laid on to fulfil the contractual obligations owed to those with tickets. I’m unsure whether it’s the TOC or NR who foot the bill. It’s not unknown for TOCs to lay on taxis for passengers, but that would usually be due to the last train being cancelled etc., rather than planned engineering blockades.

 

[43066]

I can't imagine they will be at any more danger taking the Tube as a passenger than they will having to herd said drunks on the train they're about to work!

Just as with RRBs the issues are firstly that you’re in uniform, so naturally more of a target, and then not being able to retreat in the way that you could if you were on a train you were working.

 

[Class2ldn]

My last toc used rrb regularly but it often ended up with late trains as the buses especially on a Sunday afternoon battling through traffic meant you were late for your connection.
This is the same company that expect you to clear drunks out of a train on your own with no station staff at 1am on a Saturday morning.
My current toc is a world apart and like someone said its not just t and c's that make a difference but stuff like this.

 

[bluesfromagun]

In 18 years service with two TOCs, I have never travelled on a RRB. Its always taxis or trains for traincrew. My understanding was always that it was a duty of care issue for the employer - they can't have you stuck on a third-party bus, a sitting duck for angry passengers. Also of course, its very slow generally and hard to keep track of where the staff member actually is.
In remote locations it can happen due to unplanned issues, where a taxi might take two hours to appear, the staff member may just jump on the bus out of self interest in getting finished for the day, but it cannot be diagrammed that way.

 

[Stigy]

Isn’t the solution to that to work on the reliability of the buses?

The buses aren’t run for the sake of it, in fact we are all employed by the railway to effectively shift goods and passengers, it’s not very good for the people we are employed to move find the replacement transport doesn’t appear. If the buses are that unreliable using your logic taxis should be provided for the passengers too!?

There’s only so much that can reasonably be done to improve reliability of buses. They’re always going to be slower than taxis because they have to take specific routes and often stop at several stations. It’s silly to expect train crew to travel on rail replacement busses.

 

[notadriver]

I recall reading about at least one city in Europe (I can't recall exactly where, possibly somewhere in Belgium or Germany?) where the local train conductors were encouraged 'on the side' to learn to drive city buses which were run by the same company. Thus, if there was unplanned disruption on the line, the train could simply stop at a convenient station, the conductor could get the customers off and collect a bus to drive them to their destinations instead, which I thought was a very novel operation.

In respect of traincrew travelling on RRBs whilst on duty, it's a firm "no" at our place too.

Syntus won a contract to operate serviced in the Netherlands - Zwolle to Kampen in 2015. It recruited all of the extra drivers needed from its existing bus driver pool. The intense training lasted 30 days and the salary was only slightly more than that paid to bus drivers.
During times of engineering works or when not allocated a train driving duty, drivers were expected to fill in on the buses.
Personally I think it’s disgusting.

 

[PupCuff]

Syntus won a contract to operate serviced in the Netherlands - Zwolle to Kampen in 2015. It recruited all of the extra drivers needed from its existing bus driver pool. The intense training lasted 30 days and the salary was only slightly more than that paid to bus drivers.
During times of engineering works or when not allocated a train driving duty, drivers were expected to fill in on the buses.
Personally I think it’s disgusting.

At the end of the day you choose where you work and if you don't want to drive buses you don't work for a company where you're expected to drive buses as part of your job. Nothing wrong at all with having multi-skilled staff, so long as they get the appropriate training and conduct each duty enough to keep up their skills.

 

[Stigy]

At the end of the day you choose where you work and if you don't want to drive buses you don't work for a company where you're expected to drive buses as part of your job. Nothing wrong at all with having multi-skilled staff, so long as they get the appropriate training and conduct each duty enough to keep up their skills.

As long as when you joined it was actually part of the job. There are a few reasons why this is quite bizarre to be honest, not least because of the potential for incidents whilst driving the bus, and whilst carrying out normal railway duties (fatigue would play a massive part of imagine?).

 

[notadriver]

As long as when you joined it was actually part of the job. There are a few reasons why this is quite bizarre to be honest, not least because of the potential for incidents whilst driving the bus, and whilst carrying out normal railway duties (fatigue would play a massive part of imagine?).

Indeed - in fact my source has told me due to the high incident rates they have had to review their training and operating procedures or lose their safety case to operate trains.Fatigue was an issue. I think trains are seen by bus companies as a easy and less complex job than driving trains which is why they tried to mix them.