Rail replacement bus traffic around Stalybridge

[BurtonM]

The RRB traffic around Stalybridge is causing a fair few obstructions, choke points on Rassbottom Street and the surrounding areas. I keep seeing buses parked in less-than-ideal places as they have nowhere to stable - blocking zebra crossing markings, double yellows etc. If Tameside council bothered, they'd have a field day with parking tickets. I saw one completely blocking a pavement *and* on a double yellow yesterday.

Passengers on the still-running Northern services are complaining of low capacity when 2 car 156s etc show up in the peak.

Would it not have been possible to consolidate the buses so only the stoppers were going to Stalybridge, and have some run fast to Huddersfield to reduce traffic in Stalybridge centre?

The car park setup at Stalybridge isn't really suited to the frequency of buses - the staff keep repeatedly picking up and moving traffic cones to let buses in and out of the station car park (which is the only place they'll let them load), and stop people using it as a dropoff, and the buses have to do a near 180 degree turn to access which keeps blocking the road. I keep seeing the coaches running over the kerb as the road isn't wide enough.
Safety is questionable as the buses parked everywhere are impairing sight lines and there are constantly people crossing the road etc...

 

[YorkshireBear]

The RRB traffic around Stalybridge is causing a fair few obstructions, choke points on Rassbottom Street and the surrounding areas. I keep seeing buses parked in less-than-ideal places as they have nowhere to stable - blocking zebra crossing markings, double yellows etc. If Tameside council bothered, they'd have a field day with parking tickets. I saw one completely blocking a pavement *and* on a double yellow yesterday.

Passengers on the still-running Northern services are complaining of low capacity when 2 car 156s etc show up in the peak.

Would it not have been possible to consolidate the buses so only the stoppers were going to Stalybridge, and have some run fast to Huddersfield to reduce traffic in Stalybridge centre?

The car park setup at Stalybridge isn't really suited to the frequency of buses - the staff keep repeatedly picking up and moving traffic cones to let buses in and out of the station car park (which is the only place they'll let them load), and stop people using it as a dropoff, and the buses have to do a near 180 degree turn to access which keeps blocking the road. I keep seeing the coaches running over the kerb as the road isn't wide enough.
Safety is questionable as the buses parked everywhere are impairing sight lines and there are constantly people crossing the road etc...

They also have just given up in Marsden with buses ranging from 25 minutes early to an hour late. Seems like a shambles, thought they would have had enough blocks by now to have a vague idea how to operate it.

 

[LittleAH]

They also have just given up in Marsden with buses ranging from 25 minutes early to an hour late. Seems like a shambles, thought they would have had enough blocks by now to have a vague idea how to operate it.

That’s nonsense. Every day I’ve done marsden on a bus, worked fine.

 

[nr758123]

They also have just given up in Marsden with buses ranging from 25 minutes early to an hour late. Seems like a shambles, thought they would have had enough blocks by now to have a vague idea how to operate it.

If only the technology existed to enable vehicles to be tracked and this information to be made available to waiting passengers.

 

[YorkshireBear]

That’s nonsense. Every day I’ve done marsden on a bus, worked fine.

Interesting, I'll report back to my friend and tell her she wasn't two hours late for work yesterday and today....

 

[Andyh82]

The RRB traffic around Stalybridge is causing a fair few obstructions, choke points on Rassbottom Street and the surrounding areas. I keep seeing buses parked in less-than-ideal places as they have nowhere to stable - blocking zebra crossing markings, double yellows etc. If Tameside council bothered, they'd have a field day with parking tickets. I saw one completely blocking a pavement *and* on a double yellow yesterday.

Passengers on the still-running Northern services are complaining of low capacity when 2 car 156s etc show up in the peak.

Would it not have been possible to consolidate the buses so only the stoppers were going to Stalybridge, and have some run fast to Huddersfield to reduce traffic in Stalybridge centre?

I’m not sure what you are meaning, run fast from where?

There are 4 buses an hour from Stalybridge to Huddersfield, 2 run fast, 2 run all stations.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

If only the technology existed to enable vehicles to be tracked and this information to be made available to waiting passengers.

Which of course is what is so frustrating as the technology is available.

 

[1D53]

They also have just given up in Marsden with buses ranging from 25 minutes early to an hour late. Seems like a shambles, thought they would have had enough blocks by now to have a vague idea how to operate it.

I can't imagine any scenario when a bus would turn up, and depart 25 minutes early, the run time from Huddersfield is barely that!

 

[nr758123]

I can't imagine any scenario when a bus would turn up, and depart 25 minutes early, the run time from Huddersfield is barely that!

There are three replacement bus services in the morning which start from Marsden.

 

[CHAPS2034]

Which of course is what is so frustrating as the technology is available.

Some, but not all, RRBs during the Stockport blockade were tracking on Bus Times. IIRC these were mostly the new Warrington Buses double-deckers.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Some, but not all, RRBs during the Stockport blockade were tracking on Bus Times. IIRC these were mostly the new Warrington Buses double-deckers.

It's just up to the operator's policy (or maybe the individual driver) if they set up the ticket machine for tracking.
I would love for it to be mandated.

 

[Ian Hardy]

It's just up to the operator's policy (or maybe the individual driver) if they set up the ticket machine for tracking.
I would love for it to be mandated.

Only vehicles used on registered bus services are mandated to have the ability to be tracked by Bus Open Data Sevice Most coaches don't operate registered services so don't have the requirement for a ticket machine. Remember that nowadays bus ticket machines are not just a printer but are part of a computer system which is not cheap. If the coach operator doesn't need to have that system for their normal operation why would they spend an unnecessary £1000 plus for a system just in case on of their vehicles is used on an rail replacement service infrequently.

 

[Andyh82]

Only vehicles used on registered bus services are mandated to have the ability to be tracked by Bus Open Data Sevice Most coaches don't operate registered services so don't have the requirement for a ticket machine. Remember that nowadays bus ticket machines are not just a printer but are part of a computer system which is not cheap. If the coach operator doesn't need to have that system for their normal operation why would they spend an unnecessary £1000 plus for a system just in case on of their vehicles is used on an rail replacement service infrequently.

The rail industry could provide handheld ticketer machines and dish them out to the drivers being used that day, but of course that would be a load of extra expense.

The drivers would also need to know how to set them up for each trip etc, which I’m not sure they’d all know how to do it, so you’d end up with loads of non tracking services as well

In terms of the congestion originally reported in the first post, there seems to be a lot of slack in rail replacement timetables with lots of layover and driver breaks built in, so in Huddersfield you can see buses parked up all over the town centre for an hour plus, before being due to do another trip. I’m sure some spend more time parked than actually turning a wheel.

 

[nr758123]

The rail industry could provide handheld ticketer machines and dish them out to the drivers being used that day, but of course that would be a load of extra expense.

The drivers would also need to know how to set them up for each trip etc, which I’m not sure they’d all know how to do it, so you’d end up with loads of non tracking services as well

Does it have to be that complicated? All passengers want to know is when, or whether, their replacement bus will arrive. Location tracking can be done at minimal cost, and it cannot be beyond the ability of the railway industry to find ways of communicating that information to passengers.

 

[LittleAH]

Interesting, I'll report back to my friend and tell her she wasn't two hours late for work yesterday and today....

5 days in a row. Used the buses. Except for one departing a few mins early. Run like clockwork.

 

[markymark2000]

Some, but not all, RRBs during the Stockport blockade were tracking on Bus Times. IIRC these were mostly the new Warrington Buses double-deckers.

Some companies (ie Diamond, Warrington, Blackpool) tell drivers to log into the ticket machine on rail replacement as it helps show up on their Ticketer portal where the bus is and what it is doing (It is/was a thing that the buses don't track on Ticketer unless they are 'logged into' a trip. I know a few other firms do it too. Whether that journey then tracks on bustimes depends on whether the operator chooses to share that 'route' tracking via bus open data (or in Wales depends on whether it sends data to the Welsh Bus Data Service). There is no obligation to do so and so some won't. Others will because they know it has wider benefits for passenger information.

Does it have to be that complicated? All passengers want to know is when, or whether, their replacement bus will arrive. Location tracking can be done at minimal cost, and it cannot be beyond the ability of the railway industry to find ways of communicating that information to passengers.

It is more complicated when you consider the way buses do their 'live' times uses VERY different systems to what the railway use. Both in terms of the overall technology but also the way data is inputted and read by systems. In short, the issues are you need ticket machine or app based tracking so it links to specific trips. Time it takes for a bus operator with ticket machines is very time prohibitive and so not really worth it for the rates on offer, for those without ticket machines there is no input device for the driver to select trips. You'd also need to build something pretty good to give accurate times given train ETAs work off blocks/signal sections or in some cases GPS (but with the GPS you'd know a pretty good estimate of arrival time because trains run on tracks and are subject to less variables). Local buses work out delays because of arrival/departure times at stops, but there are lots of stops. Rail Replacement has not many stops and so buses will likely flick between on time, late and early a lot as the system just blindly guesses what is going on (same as what has been seen on the Cambrian and Ffestiniog train lines, screens just show 'delayed' because it can't work out where the train is).

So yes, while you are right location tracking can be done at minimal cost, the location is meaningless without it linking up to specific trips and that is where the whole thing falls apart currently.

 

[WibbleWobble]

Some companies (ie Diamond, Warrington, Blackpool) tell drivers to log into the ticket machine on rail replacement as it helps show up on their Ticketer portal where the bus is and what it is doing (It is/was a thing that the buses don't track on Ticketer unless they are 'logged into' a trip. I know a few other firms do it too.

Useful for bridge alerts which don't function if not logged in.