• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Rail Replacement Bus + KeyGo / Credit Card

Status
Not open for further replies.

Richardr

Member
Joined
2 Jun 2009
Messages
643
In a couple of weeks' time, St Albans City station is planned to be closed, and there will be rail replacement buses to Potters Bar (I'm travelling into London and back on the Sunday, not a strike day).

What is the position if one would normally pay using either a KeyGo card, or a Credit Card? Will one or both be accepted on the bus?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Capvermell

On Moderation
Joined
5 Jan 2014
Messages
349
In a couple of weeks' time, St Albans City station is planned to be closed, and there will be rail replacement buses to Potters Bar (I'm travelling into London and back on the Sunday, not a strike day).

What is the position if one would normally pay using either a KeyGo card, or a Credit Card? Will one or both be accepted on the bus?

For whatever reasons (mainly it seems that they are not GT Railway employees and that the bus company gets its money for running the RRBs either as a flat rate or based on the passenger head count but not by having to show each passenger on the RRB had a valid ticket) drivers of RRBs almost never ask to check that a passenger has a valid ticket for the train service they are covering and will always let anyone waiting at the designated bus stop for the RRB board the service. The main challenge as a user of an RRB at a permanently unmanned station or one that is unstaffed after a certain time of day is actually in identifying where the RRB is actually leaving from as this can be very stressful indeed in a place like Sutton where there are a lot of bus stops near the station if there is only a small interval between the train and the RRB leaving the station.

Re KeyGo that further exemplifies why the RRB drivers don't check the tickets as I'm sure they don't have the equipment to support tapping in and out by a Southern Key card. However if you started your journey in the morning at say Dorking and then travelled up to Victoria but on the return find that there is an RRB from Sutton the question obviously has to be will you get an Off Peak Return Ticket with a Railcard if your Key Go tapped in at Dorking and out at Victoria and then in at Victoria and out at Sutton. My fear would be that it won't allow for this and you will end up paying for two more expensive in total single journeys. If the barriers are open when you get to Sutton (if its a late RRB) or whatever station you are traveling to by the shortened rail service then I would suggest not tapping out at Sutton and tapping out at Dorking instead when the RRB gets there as that way you should get the return fare you are expecting and not two single fares of different journey lengths between different stations. But if the barriers are still in operation at Sutton you are stuffed and have to tap out triggering the two single journeys.

I have a Key Go registered Key card but whenever I try and use it something goes wrong as I still have to load Travelcards on it manually online or at the ticket machine if I am going in to London and need a Zone 1-6 Travelcard but when I was travelling from Ockley to just Victoria and back on Saturday (I walked to the museums in Exhibition Road to avoid the £5.20 return tube fare on top of the much better value £7.10 rail fare for 58 miles from Ockley to Victoria and back as its only 1.6 miles walk each way) I tapped in at Ockley and tapped out on the barriers at Victoria and then later tapped in on the barriers at Victoria and tapped out on the card reader at Ockley, which showed Journey Ended. But now 48 hours later I can't see that journey on my Key Go account because Southern can't be bothered to properly support Key Go journeys on its website journey history and there is also no sign of any charge for the journey on the Visa card registered to my Key Go account. So if the journey hasn't shown up 48 hours after it ended then when exactly will it show up. Or have I got the journey without charge because I am the only person using Key Go from Ockley and the IT system supporting it is defective in some way?

Whenever I try using the Key Card I am always overwhelmed by a total lack of confidence that it will actually work correctly and not allowing people who use Key Go to see their journey history online on the Southern website against the account the Key Go card is registered to seems completely and utterly unacceptable (as the same thing is possible on TFL with a Contactless Visa or Mastercard you have registered to your TFL account). Also as I have only just added my electronic Network Card bought from The Trainline to my Key Go card (but Southern have now told me they have added it to my online account after I uploaded a screen print of the railcard from my phone) I clearly want to know that I have been charged a journey price on a Saturday that reflects the Network Card 1/3rd discount on the ticket price.

But like you I would have exactly the same concerns if using Key Go on the return half of a rail journey that gets cut short by the RRB (given that RRBs most commonly run in the evening) and I think if I knew an RRB was going to be provided on the return journey I would buy a paper ticket in the morning at a ticket machine instead to avoid having to deal with that problem.
 

RJ

Established Member
Joined
25 Jun 2005
Messages
8,811
Location
Back office
Rail replacement bus drivers are told not to check tickets. That’s a job for the TOC’s revenue protection department.

There’s only one rail replacement bus stop in Sutton - it’s in The Quadrant and should be signposted. A station that size is always going to be staffed so failing all else, ask somebody.
 

KatieLouLou

Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
58
I have a Key Go registered Key card but whenever I try and use it something goes wrong as I still have to load Travelcards on it manually online or at the ticket machine if I am going in to London and need a Zone 1-6 Travelcard but when I was travelling from Ockley to just Victoria and back on Saturday (I walked to the museums in Exhibition Road to avoid the £5.20 return tube fare on top of the much better value £7.10 rail fare for 58 miles from Ockley to Victoria and back as its only 1.6 miles walk each way) I tapped in at Ockley and tapped out on the barriers at Victoria and then later tapped in on the barriers at Victoria and tapped out on the card reader at Ockley, which showed Journey Ended. But now 48 hours later I can't see that journey on my Key Go account because Southern can't be bothered to properly support Key Go journeys on its website journey history and there is also no sign of any charge for the journey on the Visa card registered to my Key Go account. So if the journey hasn't shown up 48 hours after it ended then when exactly will it show up. Or have I got the journey without charge because I am the only person using Key Go from Ockley and the IT system supporting it is defective in some way?

Whenever I try using the Key Card I am always overwhelmed by a total lack of confidence that it will actually work correctly and not allowing people who use Key Go to see their journey history online on the Southern website against the account the Key Go card is registered to seems completely and utterly unacceptable (as the same thing is possible on TFL with a Contactless Visa or Mastercard you have registered to your TFL account). Also as I have only just added my electronic Network Card bought from The Trainline to my Key Go card (but Southern have now told me they have added it to my online account after I uploaded a screen print of the railcard from my phone) I clearly want to know that I have been charged a journey price on a Saturday that reflects the Network Card 1/3rd discount on the ticket price.
You **should** be able to log on to both of the Great Northern and Thameslink websites using the same email and password. My Keygo history shows fine in either of those (and also on the Southern website) so no idea if it is a legacy (old) Southern Key issue or website specific. The current (known and reported) issue is that the LNER gateline at Kings Cross is currently not sending any tap data to GTR, for both Season Tickets and KeyGo, so too many incomplete journeys at present - though it hasn't (as yet) caused an issue with revenue protection staff. I find the Key smartcard team are quite helpful and understanding provided you deal with them courteously, flag a fault and don't automatically blame the system; often the fault isn't with the Key or KeyGo itself. Occasionally weekend travels have taken up to a week to show up.
 

sammyg901

Member
Joined
24 Mar 2009
Messages
434
When Chiltern Railways run RRBs from Amersham-Beaconsfield for example they post lots of reminders for you to touch in/out at Amersham station to ensure your journey is completed/you pay the correct fare
 

paul1609

Established Member
Joined
28 Jan 2006
Messages
7,992
Location
K
Keygo works fine with my veterans railcard on journeys in West Sussex with Southern and you can see 8 weeks History
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20221025_160405_com.southern.ontrack.jpg
    Screenshot_20221025_160405_com.southern.ontrack.jpg
    267.6 KB · Views: 26

Wallsendmag

Established Member
Joined
11 Dec 2014
Messages
6,258
Location
Wallsend or somewhere on the ECML
You **should** be able to log on to both of the Great Northern and Thameslink websites using the same email and password. My Keygo history shows fine in either of those (and also on the Southern website) so no idea if it is a legacy (old) Southern Key issue or website specific. The current (known and reported) issue is that the NR gateline at Kings Cross is currently not sending any tap data to GTR, for both Season Tickets and KeyGo, so too many incomplete journeys at present - though it hasn't (as yet) caused an issue with revenue protection staff. I find the Key smartcard team are quite helpful and understanding provided you deal with them courteously, flag a fault and don't automatically blame the system; often the fault isn't with the Key or KeyGo itself. Occasionally weekend travels have taken up to a week to show up.
I found that out today but we aren't part of CPAY so GTR may have forgotten about the main Kings Cross gates
 

Capvermell

On Moderation
Joined
5 Jan 2014
Messages
349
You **should** be able to log on to both of the Great Northern and Thameslink websites using the same email and password. My Keygo history shows fine in either of those (and also on the Southern website) so no idea if it is a legacy (old) Southern Key issue or website specific. The current (known and reported) issue is that the LNER gateline at Kings Cross is currently not sending any tap data to GTR, for both Season Tickets and KeyGo, so too many incomplete journeys at present - though it hasn't (as yet) caused an issue with revenue protection staff. I find the Key smartcard team are quite helpful and understanding provided you deal with them courteously, flag a fault and don't automatically blame the system; often the fault isn't with the Key or KeyGo itself. Occasionally weekend travels have taken up to a week to show up.

Strangely there is now a menu on the Southern website in my account under "Manage my tickets / refunds" when logged in for "Key Smartcard history" but I'm sure that wasn't there when I tried checking it on Sunday morning. The other part of the solved mystery is that I hadn't used my main Visa credit card (which is itself secondary to my use of Amex for credit card payments where I can use Amex) as the payment mechanism for Key Go but a very little used Nationwide card on which I still had a £70+ credit on to use up (I originally set this up back in April but haven't used Key Go since then). This shows that payment for my journey on Saturday 22nd October was taken on Sunday 23rd October but no time of day that the payment was processed at is given. I don't think it had been taken on the late evening of Saturday 22nd October or by the morning of Sunday 23rd October so must have come through later in the day. Anyway it turns out I have been charged the correct £7.10 Super Off Peak fare discounted down from £10.80 due to the recently attached Android Smartphone App Trainline Network Card that I have just added on the Key Go account.

I did try Southern (run by Teleperformance) Customer Service just after 6pm yesterday on the phone where I got through extraordinarily quickly in 10 or 15 seconds after my IVR selection (normally its more like 10 or 15 minutes) but they were to be quite frank completely lacking in any detailed knowledge of how Key Go works re time for payment to be taken etc but got the very helpful Trish in Southern Customer Liaison (still at Teleperformance, even though like all Teleperformance staff they seem to be contractually obliged not to admit they don't work at Southern under pain of possible dismissal if they did) to call back today but by then I had discovered why the ticket had not been charged to my Barclaycard Visa but to my Nationwide Visa instead.

Ultimately quite a lot of my journeys involve a ticket that includes a Zones 1-6 Travelcard on top of the rail ticket so I can't use "Key Go" for that and either have to use the ticket machine at Ockley to put a Travelcard on the Key Card (or buy one on the Southern website instead but that seems like more hassle to me than using the ticket machine) or buy a paper ticket instead. As my big fear with the Key card is that I will walk out at unmanned and barrierless Ockley Station without remembering to touch out (as I nearly did on Saturday evening) and incur a maximum fare and/or two single fares instead of a Super Off Peak Return I will generally still buy a paper ticket for most journeys. Although I don't think I have to tap out at Ockley with a Travelcard loaded on to the Key card by the ticket machine and that is only necessary for Key Go commenced and terminated journeys on the card reader at the station. But bottom line is that a paper ticket is also less hassle when a return train is cut short by an RRB (especially as the RRB will also often agree to drop me at the bus stop only 0.25 of a mile from my home rather than at Ockley Station that is 0.82 miles away from it) so I will only mainly use Key Go when I am making a rail station to rail station only journey (no Travelcard or TFL bus or tube needed) and also running sufficiently late for the train that I don't have time to spend 2 minutes plus buying a paper ticket at the machine compared to just tapping in in a second or two on the card reader at Ockley with my Keycard. Even on Saturday evening I accidentally double tapped out on the card reader at Ockley resulting in a Journey Completed message that was then replaced by a Seek Assistance one as you can't tap in again (sensibly to prevent accidental double tapping starting another journey) within a few minutes of tapping out at a station.

Key Go obviously gets easier to use once you get more familiar with how it works, how long it takes to take payment and gain confidence that it does reliably.

I am still quite concerned that if I load a Zones1-6 Travelcard + rail ticket from Ockley on to my Key card that if I have Key Go active that it might also start a parallel Key Go rail only journey running from Ockley to Victoria if I tap in and tap out on the card reader at Ockley with it. The fact that you can't seem to see what is happening with Key Go until some hours or days later doesn't exactly inspire confidence in that respect.
 

Capvermell

On Moderation
Joined
5 Jan 2014
Messages
349
The contactless payment system operated by TfL

As opposed to Southern who stubbornly won't do contactless card payments and instead insist on only supporting their equivalent of Oyster i.e. The Key. Is the equivalent of CPAY on the Key known as ITSO or is ITSO only the type of smartcard that Southern's The Key is loaded on noting that loads of other transport operators including Southern Vectis also run their own ITSO based Key payment cards. Perhaps Oyster is an ITSO Smartcard too but I no longr have mine to be able to check up on that........
 

JonathanH

Veteran Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
23,253
As opposed to Southern who stubbornly won't do contactless card payments
Huh? It isn't up to them. The DfT and TfL are working on a project which will see Contactless extended outside London in 2024.

Be careful what you wish for though. Contactless fares from Redhill, other than for single journeys, are more expensive than paper tickets for almost any journey imaginable other than before 0910 on weekdays.

Back on topic, sooner or later, the replacement bus thing really does need to be sorted out with proper stand alone readers outside stations for use when replacement buses are running instead of the current uncertainty about how to touch in and out when replacement buses are running.
 

Capvermell

On Moderation
Joined
5 Jan 2014
Messages
349
Huh? It isn't up to them. The DfT and TfL are working on a project which will see Contactless extended outside London in 2024.

Be careful what you wish for though. Contactless fares from Redhill, other than for single journeys, are more expensive than paper tickets for almost any journey imaginable other than before 0910 on weekdays.

If I'm to believe the map at https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/tfl-to-expand-contactless-payments-outside-london-54582/ Contactless in 2024 will stretch as far south as Holmwood Station one stop north of me but not as far as Ockley Station a stop south of it. This all seems quite random when Contactless already runs to Epsom even though its beyond Zone 6.

But anyway I would naively have assumed that extending Contactless would simply make it an alternative option to using a paper ticket, Southern electronic ticket, The Key or Key Go but would not constitute a reason to raise fares and/or change fare structures or abolish paper return tickets but you seem to say it will be and for the worse for anyone currently benefiting from a Super Off Peak Return ticket to Victoria, even though we can only access an Off Peak Travelcard at Ockley.

Back on topic, sooner or later, the replacement bus thing really does need to be sorted out with proper stand alone readers outside stations for use when replacement buses are running instead of the current uncertainty about how to touch in and out when replacement buses are running.
Surely the uncertainty is that to get an Off Peak Return fare on Key Go you need to tap in and tap out at the same origin and destination stations but one of your trains (usually the return for most people) terminating short messes this up if the barriers are still closed at the station your train terminates short at, although if Key Go's ticketing algorithm is made smart enough then tapping again at the station you get off the RRB at (your origin station on a return ticket) ought to put this right. But chances are it won't, which is why paper tickets are more reliable.

But what is far more wrong with RRBs is that the train that is being terminated short and replaced by an RRB from thereon in does not show the original destination on train departure boards or any information about the RRB service or where it departs from. In fact when I got to Horsham on Saturday 10 days ago an RRB turned out to be in effect north of Horsham on the final 1817 departure through to Dorking that was not even shown at national rail.co.uk or at southernrailway.com I presume because it was a late in the day cancellation of the train and the bus company just happened to have a spare bus available. Also the train departure boards on Platform 1 at Horsham just showed the train as cancelled and no mention of the RRB replacing it and no on train or platform announcements to tell us. So I had to ask about this at the enquiry office on Platforms 3 and 4 to see if they would be providing taxis to cover the cancelled train only to be told an RRB was just about to leave from outside the station.

But the barriers at Horsham were still closed so if I had been doing the journey to Portsmouth and back with Key Go I would have been well and truly messed up by this situation, even if I had tried to tap out again at Ockley Station. Fortunately I was on a paper Off Peak Return ticket and so the situation did not arise. Also I regularly go to Portsmouth from Ockley on a Portsmouth Harbour return ticket and short terminate outbound at Fratton and then come back from either Portsmouth Harbour or Portsmouth & Southsea, which on a paper ticket is no problem as the barriers at Fratton are even programmed to open for a ticket valid to Portsmouth Harbour. But presumably if I did this on Key Go I would get charged for two much more expensive single journeys?

In summary Key Go dematerialises the ticket and reduces costs for the rail operator but introduces significant hassles for passenger in having to submit claims to customer service (there is no Delay Repay type site for this) for being overcharged due to the RRB short rail termination. And for all of this risk and hassle we get no ticket price reduction for using Key Go..........
 

Iggy12a

Member
Joined
31 May 2017
Messages
187
But the barriers at Horsham were still closed so if I had been doing the journey to Portsmouth and back with Key Go I would have been well and truly messed up by this situation, even if I had tried to tap out again at Ockley Station. Fortunately I was on a paper Off Peak Return ticket and so the situation did not arise. Also I regularly go to Portsmouth from Ockley on a Portsmouth Harbour return ticket and short terminate outbound at Fratton and then come back from either Portsmouth Harbour or Portsmouth & Southsea, which on a paper ticket is no problem as the barriers at Fratton are even programmed to open for a ticket valid to Portsmouth Harbour. But presumably if I did this on Key Go I would get charged for two much more expensive single journeys?
From memory, KeyGo is not valid at any station west of Warblington.
 

Richardr

Member
Joined
2 Jun 2009
Messages
643
Re KeyGo:

1 - I've not had any issues finishing one leg of the journey short - I've got off before at the weekend at West Hampstead Thameslink and started the return journey at a London Thameslink station, and it has given me the right cheap day return.

2 - the one issue I have had is when our trains (from the north) terminate at the upper platforms in St Pancras. Going home last Sunday I probably made the error of tapping the yellow card reader near the platform. KeyGo has now given me a tap out for that time, so an incomplete journey, and ten minutes later has an autofill for the start of the journey.
 

Capvermell

On Moderation
Joined
5 Jan 2014
Messages
349
So if someone doesn't realise where the Key Go boundary station is and taps in at station like Ockley were Key Go works and then tries to tap out at Fratton (a fairly busy modern station with barriers where they might expect it to work) what happens exactly? Presumably the barriers won't open and they end up being charged a maximum one way fare of some kind for failing to tap out? Yet of course a season ticket or a simple Off Peak Return loaded on to a Key card at a ticket machine or on the Southern website will work on the same barrier

Problems like this do not exactly encourage you to use Key Go if you live at the southern end of the Key Go area as I do but travel both up to London and down to the south coast.

I still fail to understand why such a high percentage of people I see having their tickets checked on trains now have an electronic ticket bought online when overall they seem to involve a lot more hassle to obtain and use than a paper one (including risk of flat battery on phone, which is a far from trivial or rare risk) and yet are not any cheaper than a paper ticket. Is it perhaps because spit tickets are cheaper and a lot of people are travelling on split tickets bought online, although of course split tickets can be bought on paper tickets if you know where the split is and use the buy tickets from another station function on the ticket machine.
 

Capvermell

On Moderation
Joined
5 Jan 2014
Messages
349
Looking at www.thameslinkrailway.com/-/media/goahead/gtr-all-shared-pdfs-and-documents/key-documents/gtr-1805-ret-keygo-area-map-v27.pdf you can go to loads of minor stations with comparatively few passengers on Southern using Key Go such as Holmwood, Ockley and Warnham but you can't travel north of Foxton including Cambridge or north of Huntingdon (which means Peterborough is not covered). You also can't travel north of Harrow & Wealdstone including Milton Keynes Central or north of Bexhill heading towards Ashford International. Finally you can't travel west of Warblington to stations as important in the Southern journey pattern and revenue earning stakes as Southampton Airport Parkway, Southampton Central, Havant, Fratton, Portsmouth & Southsea and Portsmouth Harbour.

Can I assume that this is all to do with Southern/GTR not owning the cardreaders and/or not being the operators of these stations and/or not being able to reach an agreement with rival train operating companies.

So The Key is handy if I am running late for a train at Ockley heading towards Victoria (but not towards Portsmouth Harbour) and need a ticket quickly and am going to somewhere where Key Go is valid at the other end but is still no use if I'm heading beyond Victoria and also need a Travelcard for TFL journeys. But in general its better to either buy a paper ticket or electronic ticket that will be accepted across the entire train network. I assume that tickets loaded on to The Key bought at a Southern/GTR ticket machine or via the Southern website are still likely not to operate at stations where Key Go won't work even though an e-ticket that can be scanned will work everywhere across the whole rail network.

This rather does seem to beg the question as to what exactly is the point of The Key?.................
 

Alex365Dash

Member
Joined
2 Jul 2019
Messages
725
Location
Sussex
I assume that tickets loaded on to The Key bought at a Southern/GTR ticket machine or via the Southern website are still likely not to operate at stations where Key Go won't work even though an e-ticket that can be scanned will work everywhere across the whole rail network.
They should work the same way as any other National Rail smartcard - if your ticket held on it goes outside the KeyGo boundary, it should work outside of the KeyGo area fine.

It’s valid either way, so in the event you break your journey on one and the barriers don’t open, let the gateline staff know and they’ll let you through.

Having KeyGo loaded on does come with the extra restriction of being required to touch in and out, even if you have a season ticket. I’m not sure to what extent this applies when part of a journey is in the KeyGo area and part of it is outside of the KeyGo area.
This rather does seem to beg the question as to what exactly is the point of The Key?
Most National Rail smartcard are mostly for seasons and Travelcards* anyway.

*I’m not sure if it’s just my local station or whether GTR have a habit of not enabling Super Off-Peak Day Travelcards for smartcard fulfilment though.
 

Haywain

Veteran Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
24,480
I’m not sure if it’s just my local station or whether GTR have a habit of not enabling Super Off-Peak Day Travelcards for smartcard fulfilment though.
It's GTR generally cause they can't program gatelines with the relevant restrictions due to gateline logic limitations. My understanding is that the only solution to the problem at present would be getting rid of the paper version.
 

Capvermell

On Moderation
Joined
5 Jan 2014
Messages
349
They should work the same way as any other National Rail smartcard - if your ticket held on it goes outside the KeyGo boundary, it should work outside of the KeyGo area fine.

So I suppose in a nutshell if a normal Key ticket is not available then the Southern ticket machine at my local station won't enable me to buy it using The Key. These stations I can't buy a ticket to on The Key (as opposed to Key Go tickets that you only tap for and do not have to pre buy) would presumably mainly be stations that don't have an ITSO smartcard capable card reading point? But the interesting thing about the non Key Go capable stations on Southern's map is that many of them are large stations with barriers surely capable of reading and reporting data on ITSO Smartcards?

But the main defining point of a non Key Go capable station seems to be that the station in question is not operated by a rail company that is part of the GTR family. Hence all the busy South Western stations like Havant, Fratton, Portsmouth & Southsea, Portsmouth Harbour and Southampton Central that Key Go does not cover. Although its hard to comprehend why a whole load of Southeastern stations like Sevenoaks, Rainham (Kent) and Gillingham are not covered by Key Go when Southeastern used to be part of GTR so they ought to be able to interoperate with SouthEastern ticketing from a technical standpoint historically. Also lines to Dover and Folkestone aren't even shown at all on the Key Go map even though they are part of Southeastern that used to come under GTR until they lost the franchise not that long ago.

Having KeyGo loaded on does come with the extra restriction of being required to touch in and out, even if you have a season ticket. I’m not sure to what extent this applies when part of a journey is in the KeyGo area and part of it is outside of the KeyGo area.

Most National Rail smartcard are mostly for seasons and Travelcards* anyway.

*I’m not sure if it’s just my local station or whether GTR have a habit of not enabling Super Off-Peak Day Travelcards for smartcard fulfilment though.
So what happens if I load a ticket from Ockley to Travelcard Zones 1-6 on my Key card, which I have only done once and immediately seemed to give me problems with a later message about an incomplete journey etc that I had to put right on my Southern online account.

Are we saying that if I buy that Travelcard Zones 1-6 ticket from Ockley on The Key that I must not only tap out at Victoria with it and obviously tap on any TFL services I use it on but I must also tap in on one of the two blue Cubic branded (no mention of The Key on them extremely stupidly) card readers at Ockley (where there are no barriers and it is unmanned 24/7) and also remember to tap out when I arrive back at Ockley, generally on the last train from Victoria that gets in at 0037. It is remembering to make myself make that particular tap that is particularly hard to do having never used those card readers at Ockley in the past and not having to use them to open a barrier for instance (there are no barriers of any kind).

Fact is that there is far more to go wrong when using The Key than a paper ticket.......
 

Capvermell

On Moderation
Joined
5 Jan 2014
Messages
349
It's GTR generally cause they can't program gatelines with the relevant restrictions due to gateline logic limitations. My understanding is that the only solution to the problem at present would be getting rid of the paper version.

The danger is that GTR would also reckon they could fix the problem by getting rid of Super Off Peak Travelcards and only having Off Peak Travelcards noting that at Ockley while we can buy a Super Off Peak Return ticket (not Travelcard) to Victoria we can't buy a Super Off Peak Travelcard but only a significantly more expensive Off Peak Travelcard. When I challenged this at Southern's Meet The Manager sessions in the past it was put down to our tickets not being expensive enough for a Super Off Peak Travelcard compared to stations further down the line going out of London. Yet oddly we are far enough out of London for a Super Off Peak ticket to Victoria only but not to London Terminals.......

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

It's GTR generally cause they can't program gatelines with the relevant restrictions due to gateline logic limitations. My understanding is that the only solution to the problem at present would be getting rid of the paper version.
Is this the result of going for the cheapest possible supplier for the gateline control equipment? It surely can't be that hard to build a control system that can cope with a near unlimited variety of paper ticket and smartcard permutations.

Although no doubt this provides a further convenient excuse for paper tickets to in due course be done away with noting how so many paper ticket reader slots now seem to be defective and out of service (both on the rail network and at TfL Underground Stations) when it must surely be possible to repair and replace them........
 
Last edited:

Haywain

Veteran Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
24,480
Is this the result of going for the cheapest possible supplier for the gateline control equipment?
Cheapest possible? Try only instead. There's only two suppliers in the GB market, one compatible with Oyster and TfL contactless and the other not compatible. They didn't have a choice. And the only business in the UK market big enough to drive change is TfL, who aren't interested in the sort of changes that TOCs need.
 

Capvermell

On Moderation
Joined
5 Jan 2014
Messages
349
Cheapest possible? Try only instead. There's only two suppliers in the GB market, one compatible with Oyster and TfL contactless and the other not compatible. They didn't have a choice. And the only business in the UK market big enough to drive change is TfL, who aren't interested in the sort of changes that TOCs need.
Thanks for the explanation.

However if we look at say the Paris Metro system they use a completely different system of exit barriers that also actually make it impossible to crawl under them, leap over them or push through them (unlike the barriers used in the UK). Is there any particular reason the UK favours using a system of barriers that seems to be easy to circumvent or evade?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top