Rail Replacement Bus Actually Issuing Tickets

[Greenback]

I'm not sure what the problem is here, or what people are suggesting they should do:
* Not check tickets? Then they lose out on the revenue.
* Pay an extra member of staff? An expensive option when there is already someone on board who is perfectly capable of checking / issuing the vast majority of tickets, and can give the benefit of the doubt on the others.

The general objections seem to be "but it's not a rail member of staff". That shouldn't matter if they can do the job (and I don't see why a bus driver wouldn't be able to), but seems to be the typical reaction due to the protectionist unions.

There is no problem at all with checking tickets. The problem is that the bus driver is unlikely to have the knowledge of the majority of rail staff, nor the Avantix ability to look up restrictions. Add to that the fact that they will be unable to accept card payments, (warrants? vouchers?) nor sell anything but local tickets, and you can see why people have concerns.

I am not speaking from the point of view of any union, but as a customer. Would I be able to board this bus and buy a weekly season on my debit card?

 

[jon0844]

I'm sure what the driver would do is wave you on and tell you to get a ticket at the other end. However, some people will be quite happy to pay for their Travelcard or return ticket to somewhere the bus is going, in cash, for the convenience of not having to pay later (yes, some will get to go free - but there are some honest people).

I've been let off getting a ticket extension many times on the bus as it's hassle for the driver.

 

[CNX]

I sometimes wonder who runs the railways these days, the management or the unions.

Going back to a Sunday in 2003, on alighting from a a rail replacement bus from Manchester at Crewe, we were gripped by someone from Fraser Eagle. At the time they were contracted to provide rail replacement services in the area because of the West Coast upgrade project.

I used many of the rail replacement bus services in the area at the time, as the Manchester-Crewe line was closed every Saturday and Sunday. This is the only occasion when I was asked for a ticket. The buses were never gripped.

 

[embers25]

Whilst I agree the driver could just wave on the person wanting to pay by card what if the guy was only going to an intermediate stop on the bus route where there was also no where to buy a ticket and even if there was somewhere how does the driver know he'll pay there. If I too was going to that same destination and had paid cash to the driver I'd demand an immediate refund as why is is fair for one person to pay and not the next.

Until ATOC can assure us that the bus driver can act the same way as the ticket office clerk or guard with all the same facilities then it should not be allowed. SWT have an appalling history with this (shock and horror) with their railbus to Waterlooville where the drivers often refused to carry a ticket machine or were not trained how to use it and instead of letting you just buy your ticket at Petersfield they made you buy a single on the bus with the promise that Petersfield would refund it which they NEVER did. In addition the extra time spent at Petersfield buying a ticket that should have been issued on the bus meant missing the connecting train meaning a 30 minute wait.

In my case we too came very close to missing the onward train and given onward trains don't normally wait for late replacement buses any more (at least SWT's don't but Chiltern sometimes do which again is madness) if we had missed the train I would have formally complained to Arriva as if they are going to issue tickets they need to add time to the timetable for it which makes the buses even slower and more inconvenient than they already are.

 

[Greenback]

That was what Iw as thinking Embers - if the driver is just going to wave people on, then what is the point? So many RR services run on a Sunday or in the evenings on weekends when there may not be amny staffed stations with open ticket offices!

How long will it take people to work out that if they say they want to pay by card, they won't have to pay?

 

[CNX]

That was what Iw as thinking Embers - if the driver is just going to wave people on, then what is the point? So many RR services run on a Sunday or in the evenings on weekends when there may not be amny staffed stations with open ticket offices!

How long will it take people to work out that if they say they want to pay by card, they won't have to pay?

Are TOC's always obliged to accept credit/debit cards as a method of payment?

 

[starrymarkb]

There are some cases where paying rail fares for a bus is still good value. Certainly in this part of Devon train fares are cheaper then the local buses. The Isle of Wight is another good example. Train fare is about £3, bus fare £9

 

[notadriver]

When I used to be a guard, as I pass-ed to my train, I was told by the bus driver to walk up and down the bus checking and selling tickets (like a bus conductor would) I refused saying I wasn't insured for it. He told me as he was the bus driver I had to follow his instructions on his bus.

 

[Multiple Unit]

Warrington Borough Transport used there ticket machines to register passengers getting on the Bus at ateach Station with a fare stage for each station Insurance puropses I belive.

Thogh When I have driven or been co ordinator on board a Rail Replacement coach I just make sure that the prsons boarding the coach at a Staffed Station actually has possetion of a ticket.

Thogh not bothered what type of ticket or where to or if its an adult or a child just so solong as they have possetion of a Rail Ticket.

 

[TEW]

I was asked for a ticket boarding a rail replacement bus from an unstaffed station once. The driver was not going to let me on until he realised that none of the passengers had tickets either.

 

[Greenback]

Are TOC's always obliged to accept credit/debit cards as a method of payment?

I believe so

I was asked for a ticket boarding a rail replacement bus from an unstaffed station once. The driver was not going to let me on until he realised that none of the passengers had tickets either.

Did he not check everyone else's tickets then? Perhaps he just didn't like the look of you!

 

[yorkie]

When I used to be a guard, as I pass-ed to my train, I was told by the bus driver to walk up and down the bus checking and selling tickets (like a bus conductor would) I refused saying I wasn't insured for it. He told me as he was the bus driver I had to follow his instructions on his bus.

At that point you could say "Have you heard of Bob Crow?"

Actually I'd like to know what did happen next....?

 

[spacehopper]

When I used to be a guard, as I pass-ed to my train, I was told by the bus driver to walk up and down the bus checking and selling tickets (like a bus conductor would) I refused saying I wasn't insured for it. He told me as he was the bus driver I had to follow his instructions on his bus.

What TOC would make staff travel pass on a bus? Can't see any drivers or even us lower mortals agreeing to that.

 

[Anon Mouse]

What TOC would make staff travel pass on a bus? Can't see any drivers or even us lower mortals agreeing to that.

Guards are not permitted to travel on replacement buses while carrying revenue equiptment and cash

 

[embers25]

If guards can't travel on replacement buses while carrying revenue equipment and cash maybe someone should tell Chiiltern as a few weeks back a guard did just that as he travelled on the replacement bus the West Ruislip from Marylebone with all his equipment. He wasn't checking tickets (the driver did that!) but he was going to West Ruislip as he was to man the station to issue tickets to those using the buses. I've had XC guards get off their train and travel on a bus and take over the train the other end.

 

[Aictos]

What TOC would make staff travel pass on a bus? Can't see any drivers or even us lower mortals agreeing to that.

The only staff who qualify for taxis tend to be drivers, the only time other staff get a taxi is in very special circumstances and then extremely rarely.

Other staff are just expected to travel on the buses.

 

[spacehopper]

Well if we were expected to travel with joe public on railway replacement buses it would cause problems.

Blow your hours if having to get a bus as a rule of thumb will take at least twice as long as the train. The bus will stop at all intermediate stations take lot longer to load. So shift start and finish times will be extended which may result in rostering problems as well as good will of staff to actually work longer.

If using coaches then standing passengers are limited or banned so what if coach is full do they wait for next coach or get preference over punters.

No way you will get a conductor doing tickets- think the name causes confusion- were guards not jacks. From all rail replacement I've seen no wasting of safety critical staff- if tickets are getting checked then it will be by a revenue grade. Some tocs are more hands on when buses are running but from what I've seen its all contracted out. First or whoever are contracted to hire and organize running of replacement buses. Closest toc gets involved is a sign pointing to station forecourt. Normally students are retired persons employed by an agency are left to sort buses out.

What would be point in sticking a guard on a bus when taxi has been hired for driver. Taxi booked and paid for if carries one or two train crew.

 

[island]

Are TOCs always obliged to accept credit/debit cards as a method of payment?

Yes, all TOCs must accept MasterCard, Maestro, Visa, American Express, and all four JCB cards in the country for the purchase of any ticket. Hence the problems caused when people want to buy on board using a Visa debit card which is set to require online authorization for all purchases.

 

[phil35]

So instead of having a guards travelling on the coach with the passengers, wouldn't it be a lot easier to have a guard or two manning each intermediate station on the rail replacement route with his ticket machine, and inspect each ticket of every passenger that boards and alights? Granted, this would probably add an extra few minutes to the journey, but it doesn't involve an untrained bus driver checking/issuing tickets, and the guards don't have to travel on the coaches.

If the rail replacements are late at night however, and it might not be possible to the guards to get back home on a service, then it maybe those services could go without ticket check though.

 

[Multiple Unit]

When MTL Sight Seers Did Rail Reaplcement Services Between Huyton and Wigan Backin the Days of Regional Railways they had Conductors collecting fares etc on board the buses.

So where did the rule that Conducotrs cannot cary out ticket check etc on board coaches or Buses I can understand aon a coach becuse theres no Standing buut couyld be done when waiting at a Station.

 

[spacehopper]

Just because you see someone checking tickets doesn't mean they are a conductor (guard).

Like I've posted guards do not get involved with rail replacement buses. We are train guards not bus conductors. There isn't enough of us to go round covering stations baring in mind you'd need at least 2 members of staff.

How long would it take to get to these stations? Do you man every single bus all day? Some buses don't pick up at the station do you place staff at the village post office? How many buses do you use to replace a train? One bus for one train equals one conductor?

As in previous threads on this subject- when there are works on line- we don't sit idle. More likely running a connecting shuttle, going via a diversionary route or acting as route conductors. Just because the trains off doesn't mean we are free to go and do revenue on buses.

Remember for some before the 1988 train crew agreement- they were guards- hooking on hooking off. Revenue wasn't in job description except on pay trains, still isn't in some places. In comes new agreement and were conductors. Increased productivity where we can be used as and when required for "other duties".

Now since then CRI has been rewritten maybe some TOCs have this agreement in for "other duties" others might not. Still in on my TOC and if they decide to get us to cover buses then I guess I'd have to cover buses. More than likely reason we don't is because management can see the unpracticality of the situation.

 

[Multiple Unit]

They where guards becuse I saw them regualy on the same lines on Trains regulay must have been a trail and error thing becuse diodnt se them doing buses affterwards when trains where off.

 

[Mojo]

So instead of having a guards travelling on the coach with the passengers, wouldn't it be a lot easier to have a guard or two manning each intermediate station on the rail replacement route with his ticket machine, and inspect each ticket of every passenger that boards and alights?

If it's anything like the Toc I used to have dealings with at an organisation I used to work for, then staff at conductor or ticket examiner grade could not work on unstaffed stations, and revenue protection staff could only work at unstaffed stations as a minimum of 3.

 

[Whistler40145]

I know this probably doesn't relate to this topic, but here goes!

I am always arguing with my family who don't agree with having to pay a Rail fare when travelling on a Rail Replacement Bus. They don't see my point of view that the Rail Replacement Bus is a contractual obligation by Network Rail/TOCs in lieu of a train, but they always ask me why you don't pay the same as on a service Bus.

Any comments?

 

[notadriver]

At that point you could say "Have you heard of Bob Crow?"

Actually I'd like to know what did happen next....?

I didn't want to get thrown off his bus so I compromised. I sat near the front and sold tickets to those boarding.

(I'm a fully qualified coach driver but I didn't tell him that)

At the TOC I used to work for it is standard practice for drivers and conductors to use rail replacement buses to get to their trains or back to the depot.

 

[northwichcat]

One point to note about the operator mentioned in the original post. Yeomans operate a National Express coach franchise so as part of that they likely have the hardware to be able to issue National Rail tickets in paper form and it's probably just a case of giving them access to the system.

Relating to the point about the driver having to phone to check whether a ticket was valid. How many times have conductors on trains had doubts over the validality of a ticket?