Rail renationalisation- do you support it?

[NoMorePacers]

. Also state whether or not the overcrowding is because of the privatised railway or because of a rising population and an increasing level of usage of the railway.

Overcrowding. Now, it's probably due to traffic that many people use trains.

 

[Harbornite]

Even then, I vaguely recall talk about Virgin wanting to either get more trains, or more cars for the existing trains, and being shot down by the SRA as happened with FTPE as well.

Was this why they didn't stick with the proposals for "Challenger" 2+5 HSTs and single cabbed Class 67s, or were these simply ditched in favour of more Voyagers?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Overcrowding. Now, it's probably due to traffic that many people use trains.

As well as population growth etc. Is the traffic the fault of the privatised companies? No.

 

[NoMorePacers]

When I mentioned crap, I was talking about rolling stock and not operators. Get it right.

I can give you 'crap that doesn't work'. Birmingham New Street.

 

[najaB]

Nevertheless, the fault lies with the SRA and Virgin for not ordering enough stock...

And I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that it was largely the former, rather than the latter, who should be held responsible.

 

[NoMorePacers]

As well as population growth etc. Is the traffic the fault of the privatised companies? No.

The private companies are EXPLOITING it.

 

[Harbornite]

I can give you 'crap that doesn't work'. Birmingham New Street.

How is it the fault of the private operators? This station was rebuilt by BR, remember. Why didn't they rebuild it in the 90s as traffic started to increase again? New Street copes quite well, considering it wasn't built to deal with the current number of trains.

Anyway, you still seem incapable of understanding my earlier post. I never referred to "crap that doesn't work", I just said "cheap crap" (Pacers etc). Birmingham New Street is not an example of rolling stock. Now give me an example of rolling stock ordered since privatisation that is crap.

 

[Domh245]

I thought my answer given to Harbonite would cover your answer.

Not really, you sort of just repeated yourself without actually going into any detail

I can give you 'crap that doesn't work'. Birmingham New Street.

Was that not a Network Rail project (ie nothing to do with privatised TOCs)

 

[Harbornite]

Was that not a Network Rail project (ie nothing to do with privatised TOCs)

Good point.


Here's another question for nomorepacers. If the railways were renationalised, how would you want them to be run?

 

[Domh245]

The private companies are EXPLOITING it.

Exploiting what? The increasing population or the fact that there is traffic on the roads? And how exactly are they exploiting it?

 

[NoMorePacers]

Good point.


Here's another question for nomorepacers. If the railways were renationalised, how would you want them to be run?

By you. If, in decades to come, you get a job offer as Minister for Transport, it will have come from me. I'm being serious,

 

[Harbornite]

By you. If, in decades to come, you get a job offer as Minister for Transport, it will have come from me. I'm being serious,

Just answer the question. How would you want them to be run? Like British Rail before 1982 or after?

 

[NoMorePacers]

Just answer the question. How would you want them to be run? Like British Rail before 1982 or after?

Pre-sectorisation.

 

[Harbornite]

Pre-sectorisation.

Why? Surely the sectorised system was better.

 

[AlterEgo]

Why? Surely the sectorised system was better.

Yeah but think of the nostalgia...

 

[najaB]

Why? Surely the sectorised system was better.

That is how the privatised railway should be run. A bit more like the 'Big Four' days with fewer larger TOCs, plus open access operators.

 

[NoMorePacers]

Why? Surely the sectorised system was better.

Pre-Sectorisation would allow for greater flexibility, with trains being able to run any service anywhere.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Overcrowding. Now, it's probably due to traffic that many people use trains.

Traffic is not much worse in my experience than it was 20 years ago. I say that as a regular user of the M25. Growth on rail is exponential. I'm not sure traffic is the reason.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

How is it the fault of the private operators? This station was rebuilt by BR, remember. Why didn't they rebuild it in the 90s as traffic started to increase again? New Street copes quite well, considering it wasn't built to deal with the current number of trains.

Anyway, you still seem incapable of understanding my earlier post. I never referred to "crap that doesn't work", I just said "cheap crap" (Pacers etc). Birmingham New Street is not an example of rolling stock. Now give me an example of rolling stock ordered since privatisation that is crap.

Voyagers. They even smell of it.

 

[AlterEgo]

Pre-Sectorisation would allow for greater flexibility, with trains being able to run any service anywhere.

So just one plus then. Go on, convince us.

 

[NoMorePacers]

So just one plus then. Go on, convince us.

Ok then. Here goes:

Delays due to lack of rolling stock will be less likely as you can use anything.
Fares won't be as adverse in prices and will be more consistent.
Overcrowding will be lower due to wider availability of stock.
Voyagers will be sent to Mexico as they are a violation of human rights and it will please Donald Trump.
Decisions will be made for the public by the public.
The West Highland Line will be confined to using Whistlers as they are the only train that suit that line.
The Far North Line will be confined to Deltics as, again, they are the only trains fit for that line.
Class 442's are the only trains allowed to be used on the London Waterloo to Weymouth & Portsmouth Harbour as they belong there.
Class 73 sets will be used on the Gatwick Express.

 

[Harbornite]

Ok then. Here goes:

Delays due to lack of rolling stock will be less likely as you can use anything.

Nonsense. By your logic, whoever operates local services on the wcml can borrow a class 450 when a 350 goes Pete Tong in Birmingham. Do you see the problem with this?

 

[najaB]

Delays due to lack of rolling stock will be less likely as you can use anything.

Yeah, it's a shame how there's all this stock lying around idle... oh, wait, there isn't. Pretty much every TOC is in the same boat. And, of course, all stock is cleared for all routes... oh, wait again, it isn't. At least all drivers can drive any train over any route... oh, wait...

Overcrowding will be lower due to wider availability of stock.

See above.

Decisions will be made for the public by the public.

God, please no. Everyone will say that their line/route is most important - rather than centralised planning.

 

[Harbornite]

Voyagers. They even smell of it.

I forgot about them

In fairness, they aren't that bad, providing that no one is using the ****ter. I went on one (a Voyager, not the toilet) from Brum to Edinburgh and back and I coped!

How can you say no to that!

 

[NoMorePacers]

Nonsense. By your logic, whoever operates local services on the wcml can borrow a class 450 when a 350 goes Pete Tong in Birmingham. Do you see the problem with this?

Any DC-only stock suitable for doing so will be converted to AC operation as well.

 

[Harbornite]

Ok then. Here goes:

Overcrowding will be lower due to wider availability of stock.

I addressed this earlier.

Voyagers will be sent to Mexico as they are a violation of human rights and it will please Donald Trump.

No they won't. More wibble.

Decisions will be made for the public by the public.

What like?

The West Highland Line will be confined to using Whistlers as they are the only train that suit that line.

Yet more irrelevant trainspotter wibble. Next.

The Far North Line will be confined to Deltics as, again, they are the only trains fit for that line.

I've never heard of a Deltic train before, as you referring to the class 55 Deltic locomotives? If so, they aren't suitable but there's no point explaining why because you seem to know stuff all.

Class 442's are the only trains allowed to be used on the London Waterloo to Weymouth & Portsmouth Harbour as they belong there.

Class 73 sets will be used on the Gatwick Express.

Yeah, good luck with that. You clearly don't know what you're talking about and you seem to think that the railway should be run for trainspotters.

:roll:

Any DC-only stock suitable for doing so will be converted to AC operation as well.

Why not just order more AC stock?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Nonsense. By your logic, whoever operates local services on the wcml can borrow a class 450 when a 350 goes Pete Tong in Birmingham. Do you see the problem with this?

Think of the poor New St drivers who suddenly have a routecard of about 800 miles and 47 types of traction in order to keep it going!

 

[Harbornite]

Think of the poor New St drivers who suddenly have a routecard of about 800 miles and 47 types of traction in order to keep it going!

Stop being logical and think of the poor passengers who suffer whenever a train is cancelled. Luckily this won't happen once BR is brought back and trains will never be cancelled again, we'll be seeing Class 139s and 153s deputising for Pendolinos.

 

[Domh245]

Pre-Sectorisation would allow for greater flexibility, with trains being able to run any service anywhere.

Perhaps if we were still in the pre-sectorisation era. Now, however, not a chance. There is already a vast variety of stock across all regions. How will having one big operator solve a lack of stock on an SWT service? You can't substitute in an electrostar, nor can you rely on the replacement driver knowing all of the route. Times have moved on, as others above me have posted.

Then again if you were in power, I wouldn't be surprised if your plans included scrapping all stock and replacing it with something built from the "Comrade Corbyn's Nationalised Train Manufacturing Department"

This is wibble

I think this summarises it nicely.

 

[Harbornite]

Then again if you were in power, I wouldn't be surprised if your plans included scrapping all stock and replacing it with something built from the "Comrade Corbyn's Nationalised Train Manufacturing Department"

Porbably something that is completely devoid of foreign components and anything that meets modern regulations.

 

[Domh245]

Porbably something that is completely devoid of foreign components and anything that meets modern regulations.

I don't know, there might be an agreement with Venezuela or similar states as a show of solidarity! :P

What I do know is that we'll order these new trains to improve capacity but we won't fit them with any seats.

 

[Harbornite]

I don't know, there might be an agreement with Venezuela or similar states as a show of solidarity! :P

Don't forget Russia!