Rail radios

[Cundy66]

Few years a go before getting in to railways I started listening to a scanner I used for aircraft exploring the frequencies on my scanner and remember listening to trains round Sheffield, I am wanting to get listening again for personal entertainment something to listen to for freight and passenger movements that head my way, is there anyone who knows which frequency/ies are used on the railway?

Many thanks in advance

Tom

 

[blackhill]

The rail radios are trunked 204-206Mhz. Station staff are on about 453.900.
Make the most of it they are going digital shortly.

 

[Cundy66]

The rail radios are trunked 204-206Mhz. Station staff are on about 453.900.
Make the most of it they are going digital shortly.

AM FM or WFM? and thanks

 

[blackhill]

Narrow fm on both

 

[CosherB]

What would one be likely hear if one listened in to 204 - 206? Do train staff undergo professional RT training and an exam like aviators do or is it more like CB?

 

[ainsworth74]

Is this the sort of thing that should be in the public domain?

 

[Cundy66]

All I seem to be getting on 260.100 is like data bursts like a 2/3 second noise no voice.

 

[pendolino]

Do train staff undergo professional RT training and an exam like aviators do or is it more like CB?

Safety Critical Communication is assessed if that's what you mean.

 

[blackhill]

The frequencies are in the public domain and several handbooks and on dti website.
Most radio traffic is signalman to driver, warnings ect and drivers asking why been held at danger ect. The signal box radio dial numbers are on plates on signal posts.

 

[DXMachina]

Is this the sort of thing that should be in the public domain?

I'd say NO.

 

[headshot119]

I'd say NO.

Why not, anyone with a scanner can simple scan through the bands and find it anyway.

 

[ainsworth74]

The frequencies are in the public domain and several handbooks and on dti website.

Fair enough, I was just curious I don't know much about radios (other than to twist the dial on the front till I find the station I want ).

 

[blackhill]

Go to any airshow and there are 100s of people listing in to air radio traffic. Why not for railway fans. The days are just about over (moving to gsm ) i have tuning in for more than 20 yrs.

 

[Cundy66]

Fair enough, I was just curious I don't know much about radios (other than to twist the dial on the front till I find the station I want ).

Just to show deep into the public domain it is thanks to the help on here I have found the right section of a book I bought at maplins a few years ago called the UK Scanning Directory and it has all frequencies but no idexing as such for finding exact frequencies cost £19.75 at the time and states exact National Rail frequencies... It is not illegal to own a scanner and as long as its for personal listening and not to pass on what you hear all is legal although I think its a case of what you put on as a plane spotter it helps when people pass information of what is on frequency for if you waiting for something... (Taxi drivers awaiting passengers love our radios they give us callsign we tell them when its landing)

 

[blackhill]

What would one be likely hear if one listened in to 204 - 206? Do train staff undergo professional RT training and an exam like aviators do or is it more like CB?

There is radio protocol as it may have to be used in an emergency. I remember an Emg broadcast to the driver of a 170 Edinburgh to Inverness to advise of sheep on line at Ladybank. The reply from the driver was thanks but it was too late had just hit and killed several. The unit was to be inspected on arrival at Perth.

 

[CosherB]

Safety Critical Communication is assessed if that's what you mean.

Err, not quite. There is a CAA publication on RT (Radio Telephony) procedures and practices for aircrew about 100 pages which has to be learned. There is then a written and a simulator practical test (including corectly handling in flight emergencies - one's own and those of others) on that extensive publication.

Then you start to learn how to do it in the real world of air traffic control! It's always conducted in a highly professional manner; CB it aint!

Of course a train crew does not have the same reliance on RT as a flight crew who can't function without it, so I wouldn't expect them to have to work to those standards. That's not to disparage train crew as it's not a vital part of the job. But I wonder why one would want to listen- in?

 

[pendolino]

Err, not quite. There is a CAA publication on RT (Radio Telephony) procedures and practices for aircrew about 100 pages which has to be learned. There is then a written and a simulator practical test (including corectly handling in flight emergencies - one's own and those of others) on that extensive publication.

That sounds similar (although perhaps more extensive) to what train crew have to be competent in: setting up and using CSR/NRN and SPT, use of the phonetic alphabet, understanding who takes the lead in communication, emergency calls, coming to a clear understanding of what is required, and the ABC (Accurate, Brief, Clear) of safety critical comms etc. etc.

All of which is assessed regularly during training, and randomly after passing out - NR audit communications regularly to ensure compliance. Conducting other drivers over a route (which obviously requires good communication skills as well as good route knowledge) is also assessed by TOCs.

Section 11 of Rule Book G1 covers this (although not to 100 pages, admittedly).

 

[PaxVobiscum]

It's always conducted in a highly professional manner...

Make that "nearly always"

I've heard a few eyebrow-raising exchanges myself and seen reports of others in CHIRP feedbacks.

Heard this one about 5 or 6 years ago:

AAA (UK regional airport): Are you one of these (regional newspaper) charters then? Where are you off to today?

Said chartered aircraft: Keflavic, where ever that is!

To be fair, most of the time it is highly disciplined.

 

[Nym]

Kefalik is in Iceland...

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Kefalik is in Iceland...

I know that! Let's hope the both the pilots did actually know as well despite what was said.

However, since the point seemed to be lost, I edited that post.

 

[Nym]

Hmmm, at this point I'd love to provide some insightful knowlege into the training periods for MoD Signallers and Radio Users, but alas, I can only tell you from ACF days that it's a weekend's course for the basic Clansman Radio Users Cadre...

 

[Eagle]

Said chartered aircraft: Keflavic, where ever that is!

Keflavík, Iceland's only major airport (well, the population of Iceland is about the same as that of Swansea, but on an island the size of Ireland).

 

[TDK]

The rail radios are trunked 204-206Mhz. Station staff are on about 453.900.
Make the most of it they are going digital shortly.

NRN is between 190 and 207.5mhz unless it has changed and I am not certain but I think it is duplex and not simplex. Off topic the airbans are in AM and not FM, this is for safety reasons as if you are using FM and 2 transmissions are keyed at the same time the stronger signal will block the weaker but on AM you ger a hetrodyne whine. Aircraft also use HF on USB and these frequencies vary depending on time of day and the skip levels of the frequencies by this I mean at certain times of the day and also depending on the sunspot cycle lower frequencies will bounce back to Earth and during the day higher frequencies will bounce back - this is noticable with your basic AM radio as at night you can hear many foreign stations but during the day only the very high powered ones. - if anyone wants any info on this subject PM me!

 

[CosherB]

Yes, you do get occasional 'non professional' RT in aviation, but it's rare and kept short. I heard this the other day:

"Easy 3926 descend to 4000 feet QNH 1031"

"Easy 3926 is already at 4000 feet"

"I'm an idiot. Easy 3926 descend to 3000 feet"

 

[andyfrommk]

Yes, you do get occasional 'non professional' RT in aviation, but it's rare and kept short. I heard this the other day:

"Easy 3926 descend to 4000 feet QNH 1031"

"Easy 3926 is already at 4000 feet"

"I'm an idiot. Easy 3926 descend to 3000 feet"

They may be rare but someones keeping a record of them

 

[O L Leigh]

I can't imagine anything more boring, but whatever lights your candle.

It's not as if we're constantly in contact with traffic control. Heck, I can go days without so much as a word passing between me and the box.

O L Leigh

 

[MP33]

It is an urban myth that you can listen to anything you like as long as you do not pass the information on or act on it.

The only radio services that you can listen to without a licence for the frequency or with the licence holders permission are the Amateur Service and authorised broadcasting stations.

All the information concerning business radio systems is listed in an register on the Ofcom website. The NRN and CSR frequencies have been given to Network Rail on an national basis and not all individual sites are listed.

The NRN system is expected to move frequency at the end of year to accomodate changes to DAB radio in Band III. Details of these changes are also somewhere on the Ofcom website.

 

[185]

Doesn't the frequency change as you move NRN zone regions though?

See if I can remember my zones.....
017 NW
031 Yorks
069 Nth Yorks
088 Lancs

See, I paid attention in guards school

 

[Minilad]

Radio comms is taken really seriously at XC. Regular checks of conversations and graded 1-5. All conversations are recorded so you have to be on the ball and use correct discipline at all times.

 

[TDK]

Doesn't the frequency change as you move NRN zone regions though?

See if I can remember my zones.....
017 NW
031 Yorks
069 Nth Yorks
088 Lancs

See, I paid attention in guards school

The frequency can change for the base station but the unit/loco radio frequency is usually held.