Rail passengers to face airport-style security checks?

[bnm]

On the other hand, unlike any airline I have ever flown on, it is forbidden to bring a dishwasher on board...

Dishwasher was one of my first jobs in the hospitality industry. Would I not have been able to use E* until I was promoted to Commis?

 

[TheNewNo2]

I can't see it happening in the UK - too many stations, too many people.

 

[Mag_seven]

I hope that this incident abroad doesn't give the "jobsworth" types over here new license to harass innocent enthusiasts taking photos etc.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Dishwasher was one of my first jobs in the hospitality industry. Would I not have been able to use E* until I was promoted to Commis?

I've seen a chest of drawers, fully loaded with clothes, casually loaded into the van area of a Class 150 at Preston headed for Blackpool...

 

[LexyBoy]

And even if they do, the terrorists will just change their tactics and target commuter trains.

Surely they wouldn't possibly think of that?!!?11

 

[thenorthern]

We are lucky in Great Britain as gun crime along with legal and illegal gun ownership is relatively low compared to the rest of the world meaning there is less of a worry about incidents on trains. Despite this the recent spate of terror attacks in Europe by terrorists connected to Islamic State is rather worrying.

 

[A-driver]

If this came in it would cost an astronomical amount of money. Every station would need major rebuilding work. Many intercity routes would have to be scrapped as well. How could you possibly take a tiny country station (let's take a highland mainline station) with majority regional trains but segregate and screen those travelling on the daily kings cross service.

Somewhere like kings cross would need some system where all IC trains are restricted to platforms 0-8 with no commuter trains running from anywhere other than 9-11 for example. Walking times on diagrams for train crews would need massively increasing so they can que up to be screened.

It's an ill conceived idea which isn't remotely compatible with Britains rail network. It would work on new build segregated lines like HS1/2 but would stop working as soon as a HS train runs on a 'domestic' line.

 

[infobleep]

If this came in it would cost an astronomical amount of money. Every station would need major rebuilding work. Many intercity routes would have to be scrapped as well. How could you possibly take a tiny country station (let's take a highland mainline station) with majority regional trains but segregate and screen those travelling on the daily kings cross service.

Somewhere like kings cross would need some system where all IC trains are restricted to platforms 0-8 with no commuter trains running from anywhere other than 9-11 for example. Walking times on diagrams for train crews would need massively increasing so they can que up to be screened.

It's an ill conceived idea which isn't remotely compatible with Britains rail network. It would work on new build segregated lines like HS1/2 but would stop working as soon as a HS train runs on a 'domestic' line.

Would it even work elsewhere in Europe?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Would it even work elsewhere in Europe?

It could be made to work more easily in France or Germany where there is a significant segregation between long-distance and regional operation.

 

[A-driver]

Would it even work elsewhere in Europe?

Depends on exactly where. I'm not overly familiar with euro railways but know there are some segregated lines.

My post was more that in this country it certainly won't work at all without major infrastructure and logistical work which could actually be impossible at many stations.

Could you honestly see a station like Redruth or cambourne being rebuilt to house security restricted areas which segregate the IC passengers from local ones (most probably a seperate platform) as well as needing a male and female member of security staff, possibly more in holiday season to meet demand. Most likely would be to cut those stations out of the IC service limiting them to stopping at stations big enough to have segregated and secure platforms.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Some elements in the EU would like us to segregate like that, as they feel our IC services should, like theirs, be commercial, with only regional services being subsidised.

 

[DarloRich]

How's that going to work then? What's the definition of a commuter train

London-Milton Keynes with Virgin you need to be security screened
London Milton Keynes with London Midland then no screening.

Can't honestly see it happening.

while i agree it is silly in the above example would you not simply install the scanning mechanism at the ticket gates and cover all passengers?

 

[WelshBluebird]

while i agree it is silly in the above example would you not simply install the scanning mechanism at the ticket gates and cover all passengers?

At all stations on the route? Because that is the only way this would work (Well it wouldn't work because it would cause chaos but).
Otherwise you could just get on the first stop the service has an avoid the scanning.

 

[Bletchleyite]

while i agree it is silly in the above example would you not simply install the scanning mechanism at the ticket gates and cover all passengers?

If you compare the speed of scanning airline passengers in an airport and that of operating a ticket gate, you will see why it is not feasible.

 

[DarloRich]

If you compare the speed of scanning airline passengers in an airport and that of operating a ticket gate, you will see why it is not feasible.

Took me about 2 minutes to clear security at Birmingham the other week. Passing through the body scanner took a millisecond.

My point was you COULD build such scanners into the gate system if you were so inclined. The scanning of baggage would be an impossible task without wholesale changes to the way we travel

At all stations on the route? Because that is the only way this would work (Well it wouldn't work because it would cause chaos but).
Otherwise you could just get on the first stop the service has an avoid the scanning.

I am in agreement it wouldn't work. If i wanted to avoid such a scanner and had nefarious intent I would simply get on a train at Fenny Stratford change at Blethcley and start firing on the Euston train. It is madness unless you have a "closed access" environment such a Eurostar

 

[Bletchleyite]

Took me about 2 minutes to clear security at Birmingham the other week. Passing through the body scanner took a millisecond.

It didn't. You first had to put your bag on the scanner, empty your pockets etc. It will have taken, from end to end, a few minutes, even if there was no queue.

Now scale it up to Euston in the rush hour. It would be impossible. And imagine how much theft of belongings there would be?

 

[DarloRich]

It didn't. You first had to put your bag on the scanner, empty your pockets etc. It will have taken, from end to end, a few minutes, even if there was no queue.

Now scale it up to Euston in the rush hour. It would be impossible. And imagine how much theft of belongings there would be?

I travel light i had a wallet and phone in my pockets with the rest in my back pack. There was no queue at all. It was wonderful!

 

[Hornet]

What next? The Underground, Tram Stops, Coach Stations, Bus Stops, Cars? The whole thing is totally unworkable. The people who come up with this have not a single functioning brain cell between them. A terrorist attack can occur at any time in any place. Just look at the amount of places that Irish terrorism bombs went off. Pubs, Chip Shops, Main Shopping Streets, Trains, Police Stations, People's Houses. There is NO 100% way of protecting against a terrorist attack. People need to wake up to that fact.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I travel light i had a wallet and phone in my pockets with the rest in my back pack. There was no queue at all. It was wonderful!

I must admit I have on occasions checked all my luggage into the hold and boarded an aircraft with only the contents of my pockets. While perhaps a risky strategy it is rather pleasant.

That service is of course not available for train travel, though.

 

[HSTEd]

Never mind that the terrorist could simply do a Great Train Robbery and do something to force a signal red - then rake the train with gunfire as it sits in the middle of nowhere.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Agreed

But at least it gives me a chance to laugh at the various comments on the Daily Fail website.

That's funeeeeee :roll:

 

[najaB]

Never mind that the terrorist could simply do a Great Train Robbery and do something to force a signal red...

Shhh, don't give them ideas!

 

[Mag_seven]

After a terrorist attack we always say "we must not let them make us change our way of life". So whats the first knee jerk thing we do after an attack - we change our way of life.

 

[thenorthern]

As we speak the Home Secretary Theresa May is in Brussels discussing this very issue with other European Interior Ministers. I will be interested to see if there are any changes to policing of UK railways after the talks, I suspect we may see more armed BTP at major stations and possibly some security screening although it will be interesting how they would implement that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

After a terrorist attack we always say "we must not let them make us change our way of life". So whats the first knee jerk thing we do after an attack - we change our way of life.

This really annoys me. We managed to cope during the IRA attacks. Why not now? Have we really become so weak as a people?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

On RENFE long distance trains, which do have security checks, I'm pretty sure they are only interested in scanning your luggage. As far as I remember there are no body searches.
Madrid Atocha has, I think, 2 sets of scanners at the end of the AVE platforms and you are directed to one or the other depending on your departing platform.
It is also a 2-level station so there may be segregation that way too.
The main impact is the time taken for this before reaching the platform, you need an extra 5 minutes or so to navigate the queues.
At remote stations (I used San Sebastian, Cordoba and Toledo) they had a single set of scanners but no queues.
It was all efficient but also casual and friendly, in a way you don't find in airports where the atmosphere is often tense with all the restrictions (belts, shoes, liquids etc) which don't apply to the RENFE operation.
Nearly all the RENFE AVE stations are brand new with acres of space of course, most unlike the congested Victorian setup we have.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And there is a clear segregation between local services and InterCity services.

It's worth noting (it was visible on the BBC documentary) that India does scanning for some services, but it does appear to be done on a very lackadaisical basis, almost only as a deterrent.

I reckon it is one that may become more feasible as technology improves - for example I wouldn't rule out the idea of walk-through millimetre wave devices that can pick out (say) a gun on someone's body or in their bag without having to do one person at a time[1]. But we're years off that.

[1] A bit like those arches you walk through in airport arrivals - though I understand those are actually detectors of radioactive material.

 

[47802]

This really annoys me. We managed to cope during the IRA attacks. Why not now? Have we really become so weak as a people?

Well I suppose the IRA were a different kind of threat to some degree including being less inclined to blow themselves up, and of course sometimes they would give warnings, and perhaps taking as much pleasure from the disruption rather than killing large numbers.

I think if we end up with more airport style security style screening then I will be using the car more and the train less.

I expect the new HS2 stations will be built to accommodate Airport style security screening regardless of whether they actually implement it or not,

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well I suppose the IRA were a different kind of threat to some degree including being less inclined to blow themselves up

That is true. The use of guns is a new one, but I still think on the train is the least of the threat of this.

I think if we end up with more airport style security style screening then I will be using the car more and the train less.

Same here. The only reason I tolerate it for air is that it is the only sensible mode of transport for some types of journey (and as Eurostar has security nonsense as well it loses its advantage). There are no domestic UK rail journeys that cannot also be acceptably carried out by car, possibly except London commuting on which there is no way this will apply as it is totally infeasible.

I expect the new HS2 stations will be built to accommodate Airport style security screening regardless of whether they actually implement it or not,

I would imagine so, and if it is implemented for HS2 but not for classic lines I will simply not use HS2.

 

[fowler9]

And there is a clear segregation between local services and InterCity services.

It's worth noting (it was visible on the BBC documentary) that India does scanning for some services, but it does appear to be done on a very lackadaisical basis, almost only as a deterrent.

I reckon it is one that may become more feasible as technology improves - for example I wouldn't rule out the idea of walk-through millimetre wave devices that can pick out (say) a gun on someone's body or in their bag without having to do one person at a time[1]. But we're years off that.

[1] A bit like those arches you walk through in airport arrivals - though I understand those are actually detectors of radioactive material.

Just out of interest what arches in arrivals?