Rail Only Pass Interchange at Liverpool Street

[phil1960]

Any TfL experts able to help. I hope this was just staff not knowing about ticket validity. Here goes....

I travel to and from work between Farringdon and Tottenham Hale via Liverpool Street using a residential pass. This is issued by Rail Staff Travel, part of Rail Delivery Group. My route each time is Elizabeth Line Farringdon to Liverpool Street or v.v. as that is part of the National Rail network interchanging with Greater Anglia to / from Tottenham Hale. Each day I’ve used this ticket (shortly after the Elizabeth Line central section was opened in May) I exit / enter at Liverpool Street via the gateline that leads direct with the concourse at the latter. Because the ticket is paper without a magnetic strip, I have to go via a staffed gate.


This morning for the first time since May, a member of staff at the said gate line said I wasn’t permitted to exit or enter the station via that route. I was told I had to use the ‘Moorgate’ entrance and transfer to / from Liverpool Street at street level. I queried why and said that exit / entry should surely be via any gate line. I am fully aware of the ticket validity and made it clear I only ever use the Elizabeth Line between Farringdon and Liverpool Street as opposed to the Circle / Metropolitan / Hammersmith & City Underground Lines. The member of staff’s best response was “We are Liverpool Street staff rather than Moorgate”. I am not sure why staffing makes any difference. Rather than detouring back down, then the full length of the Elizabeth Line platform to exit into Moorgate then walk to Liverpool Street at street level, a member of staff at the other exit in Broad Street let me out.

Anyone aware of policy for National rail only tickets such as rail staff free passes, All Line Rovers etc. at Liverpool Street whether it is a newly built one for the Elizabeth Line or an existing London Underground one?

Thanks.

 

[Watershed]

Any TfL experts able to help. I hope this was just staff not knowing about ticket validity. Here goes....

I travel to and from work between Farringdon and Tottenham Hale via Liverpool Street using a residential pass. This is issued by Rail Staff Travel, part of Rail Delivery Group. My route each time is Elizabeth Line Farringdon to Liverpool Street or v.v. as that is part of the National Rail network interchanging with Greater Anglia to / from Tottenham Hale. Each day I’ve used this ticket (shortly after the Elizabeth Line central section was opened in May) I exit / enter at Liverpool Street via the gateline that leads direct with the concourse at the latter. Because the ticket is paper without a magnetic strip, I have to go via a staffed gate.


This morning for the first time since May, a member of staff at the said gate line said I wasn’t permitted to exit or enter the station via that route. I was told I had to use the ‘Moorgate’ entrance and transfer to / from Liverpool Street at street level. I queried why and said that exit / entry should surely be via any gate line. I am fully aware of the ticket validity and made it clear I only ever use the Elizabeth Line between Farringdon and Liverpool Street as opposed to the Circle / Metropolitan / Hammersmith & City Underground Lines. The member of staff’s best response was “We are Liverpool Street staff rather than Moorgate”. I am not sure why staffing makes any difference. Rather than detouring back down, then the full length of the Elizabeth Line platform to exit into Moorgate then walk to Liverpool Street at street level, a member of staff at the other exit in Broad Street let me out.

Anyone aware of policy for National rail only tickets such as rail staff free passes, All Line Rovers etc. at Liverpool Street whether it is a newly built one for the Elizabeth Line or an existing London Underground one?

Thanks.

It sounds like that member of staff was just completely making things up. Unfortunately these kinds of things are fairly common in the rail industry, because it's wrongly deemed that gateline staff don't need much (if any) training on how to determine ticket validity.

If you have a valid ticket then you have a valid ticket. It doesn't matter which gateline you use.

If you want to, you could submit a complaint to TfL - but in all honesty, I'd have zero confidence that it would change anything. It's just a matter of luck as to who you encounter...

 

[thedbdiboy]

Residential passes should shortly be going over to gate-enabled smart format (some staff have them already to test). So hopefully less need to debate with gateline staff.

 

[Kilopylae]

It sounds like that member of staff was just completely making things up.

Can anyone throw any light on what the member of staff even thought their logic was? I cannot work out what Moorgate would have to do with it.

 

[MikeWh]

I cannot work out what Moorgate would have to do with it.

The Liverpool Street EL station connects Liverpool Street LU and Moorgate LU together. The station is apparently controlled from Moorgate even though it is called Liverpool Street. The new Broadgate exit is staffed from Moorgate whereas the original exits into Liverpool Street NR are staffed from Liverpool Street.

 

[allotments]

When travelling Slade Green to Foxton (near Cambridge) my paper ticket was rejected by machine at Elizabeth Line Liverpool St station Moorgate gateline.

That was after having to walk the whole length of the platform with my bike to use Moorgate exit after finding the direct lift to Liverpool Street out of order. Gateline staff abruptly told me my ticket wasn't valid(!) but I firmly rejected that and complained that I'd already been delayed 10 minutes exiting the station.

I said “You don't know where Foxton is, do you?". Blank agreement.

“I can show you the National Rail itinerary if you want to delay me any more.”

Gates duly opened... then another 10 minutes lost returning at street level to Liverpool Street.

Gateline not programmed correctly?

 

[phil1960]

Thank you to those that replied a few weeks ago. I wrote to TfL back in September who passed it on to MTR Elizabeth Line for investigation and still no reply.

Since then, Rail Staff Travel have reissued residential passes as smartcard. Works fine at Tottenham Hale, but both sets of gates at Liverpool Street (main station in/out of platforms 4 and 5) plus the TfL managed one from the main station concourse to Elizabeth / Underground rejected it with code 57. Upon research that code relates to a location covered by a prepaid ticket. Odd since Liverpool Street is the only permitted National Rail route between Tottenham Hale and Farringdon.

Alas TfL staff at their gateline queried the ticket saying it should be issued on Oyster! Clearly they have no knowledge of other TOCs smart cards which can store say London Travelcards.

I've raised the issue with Rail Staff Travel seeing if it can be corrected.

 

[Watershed]

Since then, Rail Staff Travel have reissued residential passes as smartcard. Works fine at Tottenham Hale, but both sets of gates at Liverpool Street (main station in/out of platforms 4 and 5) plus the TfL managed one from the main station concourse to Elizabeth / Underground rejected it with code 57. Upon research that code relates to a location covered by a prepaid ticket. Odd since Liverpool Street is the only permitted National Rail route between Tottenham Hale and Farringdon.

Code 57 essentially means that the ticket isn't programmed as being valid at that location. Barriers have to be manually programmed to allow tickets that aren't issued to/from the location in question, so this isn't particularly surprising (particularly as there aren't any Tottenham Hale to Farringdon point to point tickets available to the public).

Alas TfL staff at their gateline queried the ticket saying it should be issued on Oyster! Clearly they have no knowledge of other TOCs smart cards which can store say London Travelcards.

The medium it's issued on doesn't matter. They are just making things up because they don't understand. Unfortunately I wouldn't hold out high hopes of it improving; the training given to TfL barrier staff is very poor when it comes to National Rail tickets.

 

[philthetube]

I would contact rail staff travel and ask if they can provide documentary evidence that this is valid, also if stopped again get the name/number of the staff member concerned, often just asking sorts problems. and ask to see a manager if not.