Rail industry preparing for national strikes

[dk1]

A few years ago, was the day of the Grand National at Aintree a date targeted for a rail strike day?

Yes it was & it rained. We all queued in the for almost an hour for replacement buses back into Liverpool with many desperate for the loo. It was a miserable experience that spoiled that year. Aintree’s blessing is it’s railway station.

Another irritation was going passed Kirkdale depot & seeing sidings full of trains.

 

[the sniper]

I think you have mis-read my posting, which just asked if the RMT union still had connections to the Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition political party.

I read the post you quoted. Was it not relevant? Or is danielcanning just considered to be so knowledgeable about the RMT, having linked it to the Russian government, that you just wanted his further insight into the TUSC link...?

 

[ungreat]

I read the post you quoted. Was it not relevant? Or is danielcanning just considered to be so knowledgeable about the RMT, having linked it to the Russian government, that you just wanted his further insight into the TUSC link...?

I think he/she may be just after antagonising Union members or non Tories!
I hope there are no strikes..but I support those,if it happens,that do. I too would vote for action if ASLEF call a ballot

 

[dk1]

I think he/she may be just after antagonising Union members or non Tories!
I hope there are no strikes..but I support those,if it happens,that do. I too would vote for action if ASLEF call a ballot

ASLEF have called a ballot. Papers need to be in by 1st June.

 

[43066]

I think he/she may be just after antagonising Union members or non Tories!

What about union members who are Tories?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 May 2022 ==

But if that maximised revenue generation that you mention above is achieved, will it lessen the level of the required subsidy?

On that basis that subsidy has had to be increased as a direct result of revenues dropping off a cliff, due to the public being ordered not to use public transport for much of the past two years, it follows that it should.

 

[Jimini]

Tomorrow's Sunday Telegraph front page (also web link and article text):

Tories poised to torpedo unions after threat to bring country ‘to a standstill’

Conservative ministers are planning to break the unions' ‘stranglehold’ on transport and education

www.telegraph.co.uk

Tories poised to torpedo unions after threat to bring country ‘to a standstill’​

Conservative ministers are planning to break the unions' ‘stranglehold’ on transport and education

ByEdward Malnick, SUNDAY POLITICAL EDITOR21 May 2022 • 9:06pm

Grant Shapps, the Transport Secretary, said the Government was ready to draw up laws requiring minimum numbers of rail staff to work during a strike which would make any industrial action illegal if those levels were not met CREDIT: Dan Kitwood/Getty Images Europe
The Conservatives are threatening to launch a double-pronged attack against trade unions in an effort to break their stranglehold on the public.
Grant Shapps, the Transport Secretary, told The Telegraph that the Government was poised to draw up laws requiring minimum numbers of rail staff to work during a strike. The law would make any industrial action illegal if those levels were not met.
The intervention came as a ballot of 40,000 Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers (RMT) union members was due to close on Tuesday, with Mick Lynch, the body’s general secretary, having warned that a strike would “bring the country to a standstill”.
The Transport Salaried Staffs’ Association, which has vowed to coordinate with the RMT, has threatened the biggest disruption since the General Strike in 1926, over job cuts and pay freezes.
[IMG alt="Nadim Zahawi
"]https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content...SpPmN5eNR6pQVArxqnJGCI.jpeg?imwidth=480[/IMG]
Nadim Zahawi, the Education Secretary, is examining plans to bolster the rights of teachers who choose not to join a union CREDIT: Andrew Fox
Separately, Nadhim Zahawi, the Education Secretary, is planning to loosen the grip of trade unions on schools.
Mr Zahawi is examining plans to bolster the rights of teachers who choose not to join unions. He wants to amend the Employment Relations Act to enshrine the rights of teachers to be accompanied to grievance and disciplinary meetings by an external lawyer or representative of a body other than a union.
Currently, the law only requires employers to allow staff to be joined by a trade union representative or colleague.
Government sources suggested that many teachers join unions simply to protect themselves in the event that they face allegations of abuse.

‘Financial life support’​

The move, confirmed in a written parliamentary answer to Steve Baker MP, would reignite hostilities between the Government and teaching unions, following rows over the opening of schools during the Covid-19 pandemic.
Rail firms’ plans to minimise disruption in the event of a strike include freight trains being given priority over passenger services to head off potential food and fuel shortages.
Mr Shapps accused unions of treating strikes as a first rather than last resort. He said railways were already on “financial life support” because of the fall in their use as a result of the pandemic.
Citing a pledge in the Conservatives’ manifesto to “require that a minimum service operates during transport strikes”, Mr Shapps said: “We had a pledge in there about minimum service levels. If they really got to that point then minimum service levels would be a way to work towards protecting those freight routes and those sorts of things. We very much hope they will wake up and smell the coffee.”
Pushing ahead with a strike could put more members of the public off train travel altogether, Mr Shapps suggested.

‘National dispute’​

A government source added: “The unions have got to tread carefully. If they do call people out in massive prolonged strikes… they will do enormous damage to their members’ jobs. Rail is now a choice, not a necessity.”
In an interview with this newspaper, Mr Lynch said he had “no doubt” that more RMT workers would vote for the strikes than against them, causing a “national dispute”.
A poll commissioned by Edapt, which provides legal support to teachers, suggested that support for teaching unions had reached a new low, with only 30 per cent of those surveyed satisfied with the support they get from their union.
The poll, by the Teacher Tapp app, of almost 7,000 teachers, found that 28 per cent would prefer not to be a member of a union if alternative support was available – up from 24 per cent in 2020.

 

[43066]

I hope there are no strikes..but I support those,if it happens,that do. I too would vote for action if ASLEF call a ballot

I have to say, if I’m balloted, I will vote against.

It’s the wrong time for any kind of “‘national strike” for various reasons, not least because of some of the points made in the Telegraph article above. I really, really hope it doesn’t come to it.

Much better, surely, to keep the powder dry, allow passenger numbers to continue to recover and negotiate harder in a year or so?

 

[ungreat]

ASLEF have called a ballot. Papers need to be in by 1st June.

We haven't had any here....

 

[thedbdiboy]

There certainly can be if Network Rail's signallers strike ! The last such was IIRC in 1994, and Railtrack (as it was then) struggled to staff boxes, and then only some, for any more than a single 12 hour shift per day. I doubt they could do much more now.

Having been involved in publishing the strike timetables back in 1994, I recall that the ability to provide a service was very much linked to those routes covered by area signalling centres - the more boxes a route had, the more unlikely it was that it could be covered in some way.

 

[ungreat]

I have to say, if I’m balloted, I will vote against.

It’s the wrong time for various reasons, not least because of some of the points made in the Telegraph article above. I really, really hope it doesn’t come to it.

I would vote for action. A work to rule would be the best imo

 

[dk1]

We haven't had any here....

Ah so different by TOC maybe? Sent mine off last week.

 

[ungreat]

Ah so different by TOC maybe? Sent mine off last week.

GTR
Nothing here

 

[43066]

GTR
Nothing here

Nor here (not GTR, but not far away).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 May 2022 ==

A work to rule would be the best imo

Agreed that would be far better than an all out strike. Much harder to criticise as overly militant when it’s voluntary overtime being withdrawn.

 

[ungreat]

I've been on the footplate a long time...35 years...and I haven't seen such dissatisfaction with the job in a long time. Last time I was on strike was 1993. I hope honestly that it doesn't come to another one. However I would support action

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 May 2022 ==

Nor here (not GTR, but not far away).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 May 2022 ==



Agreed that would be far better than an all out strike. Much harder to criticise as overly militant when it’s voluntary overtime being withdrawn.

Definitely agree with you

 

[Tomnick]

I have to say, if I’m balloted, I will vote against.

It’s the wrong time for any kind of “‘national strike” for various reasons, not least because of some of the points made in the Telegraph article above. I really, really hope it doesn’t come to it.

Much better, surely, to keep the powder dry, allow passenger numbers to continue to recover and negotiate harder in a year or so?

I'd perhaps be more inclined to agree with you if inflation wasn't so high, such that we're facing a substantial pay cut in real terms. That in itself pushes us into a weaker position for negotiations in a year or two - the DfT knows full well that there are drivers already living well beyond their means...

Ah so different by TOC maybe? Sent mine off last week.

It has to be done on a TOC-by-TOC basis. We can only be in dispute, through the union machinery, with our individual employers - even though the fight is at a higher level. I'll be amazed if there aren't more to follow soon though.

 

[dk1]

It has to be done on a TOC-by-TOC basis. We can only be in dispute, through the union machinery, with our individual employers - even though the fight is at a higher level. I'll be amazed if there aren't more to follow soon though.

Thanks.

 

[ungreat]

I'd perhaps be more inclined to agree with you if inflation wasn't so high, such that we're facing a substantial pay cut in real terms. That in itself pushes us into a weaker position for negotiations in a year or two - the DfT knows full well that there are drivers already living well beyond their means...

It has to be done on a TOC-by-TOC basis. We can only be in dispute, through the union machinery, with our individual employers - even though the fight is at a higher level. I'll be amazed if there aren't more to follow soon though.

I imagine there will be

 

[43066]

I haven't seen such dissatisfaction with the job in a long time.

Less time in than you, I definitely also agree with you on this.

I'd perhaps be more inclined to agree with you if inflation wasn't so high, such that we're facing a substantial pay cut in real terms. That in itself pushes us into a weaker position for negotiations in a year or two - the DfT knows full well that there are drivers already living well beyond their means...

I might see if I can get permission to set up a conversation group for drivers on here (who can prove they actually are drivers).

It might be useful for discussing various industry and grade specific issues we could all benefit from but may not wish to discuss openly - and there isn’t generally much sharing or info between (or even within) TOCs as between depots etc.

I’ll circle back…

 

[Horizon22]

For those forum members planning to vote "yes" in any ballot regarding industrial action that includes a strike, what is your main motivation?

Is it pay given the general inflationary rate at the moment? Or for you is that just the tip of an iceberg? Curious to see what answers are out there.

What cannot be denied is that the railway is costing the government more than it has been in recent history, so it would be interesting to see what any response would be to a national strike politically; somehow I don't think the outcome would be capitulation on the DfT/Treasury's/Conservatives part so I can see it being a right mess as I think enough RMT members will vote yes. As other media sites have alluded to, whilst the RMT are perhaps more trigger-happy historically on the industrial action than other unions, many other public sectors are really not far behind at this point.

 

[43066]

For those forum members planning to vote "yes" in any ballot regarding industrial action that includes a strike, what is your main motivation?

What’s the TSSA’s angle?

somehow I don't think the outcome would be capitulation on the DfT/Treasury's/Conservatives part

I’m not really in favour of action myself, but I can certainly see the counter argument to this, along the lines of “if we cause bad headlines, they’ll file it in the too difficult pile”.

Do we really think the current government is “not for turning” a la Maggie? Johnson is no Thatcher, recent history has shown his shower U-turn at the drop of a hat…

 

[ungreat]

For those forum members planning to vote "yes" in any ballot regarding industrial action that includes a strike, what is your main motivation?

Is it pay given the general inflationary rate at the moment? Or for you is that just the tip of an iceberg? Curious to see what answers are out there.

What cannot be denied is that the railway is costing the government more than it has been in recent history, so it would be interesting to see what any response would be to a national strike politically; somehow I don't think the outcome would be capitulation on the DfT/Treasury's/Conservatives part so I can see it being a right mess as I think enough RMT members will vote yes. As other media sites have alluded to, whilst the RMT are perhaps more trigger-happy historically on the industrial action than other unions, many other public sectors are really not far behind at this point.

I would vote for action because I am asked on a daily basis to do overtime which is rarely paid.If overtime is available then that means vacancies and jobs for others.The talent pools are overflowing with applicants.
I truly think personally that a work to rule would be the option. I'm coming to the end of my career hopefully and would hate to see my younger colleagues having to have worse conditions than we have now.
A strike is largely pointless...but I would support one and go out.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 May 2022 ==

Less time in than you, I definitely also agree with you on this.



I might see if I can get permission to set up a conversation group for drivers on here (who can prove they actually are drivers).

It might be useful for discussing various industry and grade specific issues we could all benefit from but may not wish to discuss openly - and there isn’t generally much sharing or info between (or even within) TOCs as between depots etc.

I’ll circle back…

I'd go for a driver part of the forum if the mods allowed it

 

[320320]

Nor here (not GTR, but not far away).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 May 2022 ==



Agreed that would be far better than an all out strike. Much harder to criticise as overly militant when it’s voluntary overtime being withdrawn.

Absolutely, working to rule with no driver training taking place leaves them in limbo and will have a far greater impact than the odd strike day here and there.

 

[bramling]

Considering the RMT dragged a mobile billboard around Aintree on the day i'd say it was targeted.

I’m not sure why anyone is surprised when action is targeted. Whether one agrees with the issue or not, the point of industrial action is to get the company to listen when they previously haven’t been perceived to have done so.

What’s the TSSA’s angle?



I’m not really in favour of action myself, but I can certainly see the counter argument to this, along the lines of “if we cause bad headlines, they’ll file it in the too difficult pile”.

Do we really think the current government is “not for turning” a la Maggie? Johnson is no Thatcher, recent history has shown his shower U-turn at the drop of a hat…

I have to say, there’s a significant part of me that would support industrial action for no other reason than to stick a finger up at this shower of a government, and Johnson in particular. His constant antics and behaviours seem to be contributing to a toxic atmosphere in many ways, not just specific to the rail industry. He’s only still there now because there continues to be no obvious replacement.

I really wish the whole parties affair would finish him off, so we can return to something resembling mature government.

 

[MCSHF007]

In a "lower-management" TOC role I had very close working arrangements with local (and company council) A.S.L.E.&F. reps over many many years. Realistic, pragmatic and without fail absolutely understanding if a good reason was offered not to adopt their suggested changes.

Working with local A..S.L.E.&F. reps was actually very much more rewarding than working with/for my own managers.

As for the RMT. Let's just leave it that I'm "not a fan".

 

[ungreat]

I’m not sure why anyone is surprised when action is targeted. Whether one agrees with the issue or not, the point of industrial action is to get the company to listen when they previously haven’t been perceived to have done so.


I have to say, there’s a significant part of me that would support industrial action for no other reason than to stick a finger up at this shower of a government, and Johnson in particular. His constant antics and behaviours seem to be contributing to a toxic atmosphere in many ways, not just specific to the rail industry. He’s only still there now because there continues to be no obvious replacement.

I really wish the whole parties affair would finish him off, so we can return to something resembling mature government.

Agreed

 

[TheAlbanach_]

For those forum members planning to vote "yes" in any ballot regarding industrial action that includes a strike, what is your main motivation?

Is it pay given the general inflationary rate at the moment? Or for you is that just the tip of an iceberg? Curious to see what answers are out there.

What cannot be denied is that the railway is costing the government more than it has been in recent history, so it would be interesting to see what any response would be to a national strike politically; somehow I don't think the outcome would be capitulation on the DfT/Treasury's/Conservatives part so I can see it being a right mess as I think enough RMT members will vote yes. As other media sites have alluded to, whilst the RMT are perhaps more trigger-happy historically on the industrial action than other unions, many other public sectors are really not far behind at this point.

I’ve already voted yes.

My reasoning is that I am insanely feeling the rising cost of everything, I’m getting sent emails every week about the companies revenue and that the company is making money. This would not be achieved without the work force. Also the directors and some management revived a raise, so everyone else should.

I’m running out of money every month, Covid ruined my finances as my boyfriend lost his job and I had to support both of us.

More and more people (external of the railway) should be striking for more pay. The rich get richer while we all have to suffer poor wages, and also remember not everyone on the railway is on 40k+ a year!

If the government wants to make savings, start looking at the ROSCOs and directors. Does every TOC need a bunch of directors?

Edited for (many) typos.

 

[43066]

I'd go for a driver part of the forum if the mods allowed it

Noted, thanks.

I have to say, there’s a significant part of me that would support industrial action for no other reason than to stick a finger up at this shower of a government, and Johnson in particular. His constant antics and behaviours seem to be contributing to a toxic atmosphere in many ways, not just specific to the rail industry. He’s only still there now because there continues to be no obvious replacement.

Let’s not bite the hand that feeds too much.

Working with local A..S.L.E.&F. reps was actually very much more rewarding than working with/for my own managers.

As for the RMT. Let's just leave it that I'm "not a fan".

One of my supposed ASLEF reps walked into the messroom and looked at me like I was something he’d stepped in, earlier. Not for the first time. I don’t properly know who he is* yet he’s now rep for something or other…

I do know I don’t particularly like him, certainly never voted for him… Frankly the drivers actively involved with the union come across as out for themselves and condescending.

I’m there to pay my mortgage off. Not for the flaming politics.

*he apparently used to drive buses (admittedly before he joined his previous TOC). That’s generally a bad sign in the railway industry and usually only goes one way…

 

[SCDR_WMR]

For those forum members planning to vote "yes" in any ballot regarding industrial action that includes a strike, what is your main motivation?
.

I've voted based on a much wider view of things. I'd love a pay rise after 3 years without, but my main reason is solidarity for my fellow union members who are cleaners at(on) Avanti and the proposed cuts at NR including the change to self employed within certain roles.

Most people will vote for how it affects them, but for me this time it's about the impact on the wider network and a strong face for combined pay talks across the industry. If all TOCs are to fall under DfT control/NRC then pay rises/freezes should be controlled nationally. Happy to be paid less than in other TOCs but either we all get rises or nobody does.

This is starting to feel like a once in a generation fight given who it's already encompassing, with more to follow. For me, a poor turn out or vote will lead to huge changes to T&C's next year with GBR.....pensions ballot for us due in a few week too!

 

[choochoochoo]

Action short of a strike is what I’d vote for.

Then those wretched politicians can’t claim to be torpedoing unions ability to strike. It’ll be the operators fault for not adequately staffing their companies. No silly strike-busting minimum staffing law will fix that in the short term.

With no overtime and training in all areas they will see that railway staff are not as work shy or lazy as the media make us out to be. We just need to keep making sure that everyone knows it’s not a strike.

As can be seen with what’s happening with Scotrail there’s no need to go all out. The TOCs will be hurt enough by work to rule. Save that strike nugget for when we need it.

 

[43066]

Deleted