Rail Fine Appeal and Collection order UK

[Railman78]

Hi, I would love some thoughts on this.
Context trains run from Walsall to Birmingham and Dudderston is along the route Major delays and fire on the date of travel
I was issued a fine from West Midlands Trains back in 2024 9th August. This was to state that i did not have a valid ticket for travel.
I had a ticket purchased from Dudderston to Birmingham but there were severe cancellations (9th August) from Dudderston and no trains were running, I proceeded to do school run in Walsall (three stops further from via car and got a train from there as I was informed there were no running trains from dudderston.

At the station i spoke to the staff and they told me to jump on the Walsall to birmingam service - this was the only train running, due to the issues ahead and to use my current ticket (there is £1.30 price difference betwen the two)
I since appealed the ridiculous fine and stated my facts with no response.

I have now been issued a £500 Notice of Fine and Collection order from Nottinghamshire Magistrate Court and i am shocked and confused at what to do.
I would love any thoughts on this. I am planning to appeal but i have quoted close to £1000 by lawyers. I have evidence of the mitigation circumstances with train delays and cancellations, proof of purchase of a ticket from dudderston.
Any assistance will be greatly appreciated.
Hate that I have spent over £1400 on their services the last year only to be fined

 

[Hadders]

It is highly unusual for a train company to go straight to prosecution without having contacted you first to obtain your version of events.

Have you received any other letters or emails in respect of this? If you did, what did you say in response?

You mention that you have already appealed against something? Can you show us exactly what you sent, to whom and when.

We really need to know this information to be able to offer the best advice.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi, I would love some thoughts on this.
Context trains run from Walsall to Birmingham and Dudderston is along the route Major delays and fire on the date of travel
I was issued a fine from West Midlands Trains back in 2024 9th August. This was to state that i did not have a valid ticket for travel.
I had a ticket purchased from Dudderston to Birmingham but there were severe cancellations (9th August) from Dudderston and no trains were running, I proceeded to do school run in Walsall (three stops further from via car and got a train from there as I was informed there were no running trains from dudderston.

At the station i spoke to the staff and they told me to jump on the Walsall to birmingam service - this was the only train running, due to the issues ahead and to use my current ticket (there is £1.30 price difference betwen the two)
I since appealed the ridiculous fine and stated my facts with no response.

I have now been issued a £500 Notice of Fine and Collection order from Nottinghamshire Magistrate Court and i am shocked and confused at what to do.
I would love any thoughts on this. I am planning to appeal but i have quoted close to £1000 by lawyers. I have evidence of the mitigation circumstances with train delays and cancellations, proof of purchase of a ticket from dudderston.
Any assistance will be greatly appreciated.
Hate that I have spent over £1400 on their services the last year only to be fined

so it looks like you have been taken to court, found guilty and this fine is the sentence for the offence.

Is this really the first you have ever heard of this? - if so there is process for declaring to the court that you were unaware of the court action and the clock can be reset - you don't need to pay a solicitor a large sum to do that.

- Have you moved address since 9th august 2024?
- did you give them a correct postal address on 9th August?
- if you did move did you make any arrangement to receive post after your move?

 

[John R]

You say you appealed a ridiculous fine - what was that -was it a Penalty Fare, or were you written to and offered an out of court settlement in lieu of prosecution?

Regardless, at the moment you have a criminal conviction, as well as the fine. If you were not aware of the court case then you are able to rewind the clock and submit a "Statutory Declaration" to get the court case re-run. If you do that then you will have an opportunity to engage with the train company, explain the situation, and ask for a settlement.

 

[Gloster]

Do you have any paperwork that you were given or have been sent, particularly at the time of the incident?

(Note to experts: could what the OP refers to as a fine in the third sentence of #1 be a Penalty Fare?)

 

[AlterEgo]

Hi, I would love some thoughts on this.
Context trains run from Walsall to Birmingham and Dudderston is along the route Major delays and fire on the date of travel
I was issued a fine from West Midlands Trains back in 2024 9th August. This was to state that i did not have a valid ticket for travel.

Ok - so this was 9th August, where there was a fire at Aston. According to Network Rail, this fire was reported just before 0930: https://www.networkrailmediacentre....ncelled-cross-city-north-and-walsall-services

I had a ticket purchased from Dudderston to Birmingham but there were severe cancellations (9th August) from Dudderston and no trains were running

What time was this? Your witness statement, which was taken under caution, says the following:

You were stopped at 0947, about 20 minutes after the line was reported to have issues. In the intervening time, you claim to have:

proceeded to do school run in Walsall

- so you travelled from Duddeston (is that right?), to Walsall, to do a school run? A drive of some 35-45 minutes, and then:

jump on the Walsall to birmingam service

A journey which in and of itself is around 20 minutes.

All of which has to happen before 0947, the time of the stop.

To note also, the 0906 ran from Duddeston on that day and was the last train before the fire started: https://www.recenttraintimes.co.uk/Home/Service?ServiceId=124924712

How does these timeframes square with each other? Or, is it the case that you don't live in Duddeston, or board the train from there, and that your address, just readable on the letter, appears to be Wednesbury, which is...next to Walsall.

Did you explain why you had bought tickets from Duddeston, which is the shortest possible ticket you could have purchased? What was your reasoning for doing this? You mention in the witness statement you travel from there often, and the company will have audited your Trainline account to see your purchase history.

It would be good to see any correspondence and any defence you sent the train company, because on the face of it, it doesn't look like the story hangs together without further explanation.

You say you appealed a ridiculous fine - what was that -was it a Penalty Fare

The OP was reported for prosecution as per the witness statement, presumably for alleged short faring.

 

[WesternLancer]

Ok - so this was 9th August, where there was a fire at Aston. According to Network Rail, this fire was reported just before 0930: https://www.networkrailmediacentre....ncelled-cross-city-north-and-walsall-services


What time was this? Your witness statement, which was taken under caution, says the following:

You were stopped at 0947, about 20 minutes after the line was reported to have issues. In the intervening time, you claim to have:


- so you travelled from Duddeston (is that right?), to Walsall, to do a school run? A drive of some 35-45 minutes, and then:


A journey which in and of itself is around 20 minutes.

All of which has to happen before 0947, the time of the stop.

To note also, the 0906 ran from Duddeston on that day and was the last train before the fire started: https://www.recenttraintimes.co.uk/Home/Service?ServiceId=124924712

How does these timeframes square with each other? Or, is it the case that you don't live in Duddeston, or board the train from there, and that your address, just readable on the letter, appears to be Wednesbury, which is...next to Walsall.

Did you explain why you had bought tickets from Duddeston, which is the shortest possible ticket you could have purchased? What was your reasoning for doing this? You mention in the witness statement you travel from there often, and the company will have audited your Trainline account to see your purchase history.

It would be good to see any correspondence and any defence you sent the train company, because on the face of it, it doesn't look like the story hangs together without further explanation.


The OP was reported for prosecution as per the witness statement, presumably for alleged short faring.

Given this analysis the OP needs to be aware that even if this was the first they had heard of the court action, if they use a Statutory Declaration to 'reset the clock' then the onwards outcomes would either presumably be:

a) they are found guilty again, sentenced and fined accordingly
or
b) they have the chance to ask the railway company if they will settle the matter out of court, before a new court case is heard, which may or may not cost more than the £488 being asked for (but would prevent a criminal record)
or c) they go to a new court hearing and seek to persuade the magistrates that they are in fact not guilty on the basis that staff advised them to catch the train concerned

There may be an opportunity to reduce the fine if their income is low and was not declared to the court at sentencing, or to arrange to pay the court in instalments for the sum demanded (or any reduced sum related to low income). In both cases I assume that contacting the court about this is the best course of action.

Failure to do anything, or failing to pay the sum demanded, will simply result in the court / bailiffs eventually locating the OP and by that time the money being asked for will have increased, possibly substantially.

 

[John R]

The OP was reported for prosecution as per the witness statement, presumably for alleged short faring.

Yes, but given the wording, "I since appealed the ridiculous fine and stated my facts with no response", it sounds as though they were offered an out of court settlement prior to prosecution, and the response they sent was ignored. Agree it's unlikely to have been a PF, as appeals do appear to be read and replied to, even if they are almost always rejected. It's that what I am trying to clarify.

 

[AlterEgo]

Yes, but given the wording, "I since appealed the ridiculous fine and stated my facts with no response", it sounds as though they were offered an out of court settlement prior to prosecution, and the response they sent was ignored. Agree it's unlikely to have been a PF, as appeals do appear to be read and replied to, even if they are almost always rejected. It's that what I am trying to clarify.

It would be good to get sight of what was sent in response, and whether any reasonable defence or explanation was offered.

 

[nap666]

Walsall schools were on holidays from 22 July 2024 for 6/52.

 

[Snow1964]

Walsall schools were on holidays from 22 July 2024 for 6/52.

Beat me to it, I was intrigued by school run in August

 

[island]

@Railman78

We would like to help you, but we can only do that if you are honest with us. Frankly, your story has more holes in it than a golf course.

I suggest you start again, tell us the truth about what actually happened, and whether you received any other letters before the Notice of Fine and Collection Order.

This will allow us to let you know about the legal routes open to you.

 

[Skiddaw]

Beat me to it, I was intrigued by school run in August

May have been a summer play scheme possibly?

But I agree- the OP needs to return and provide more info...