Last edited:
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Rail fares up by average 6.2% in new year
- Thread starter GodAtum
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
fairlie
Member
- Joined
- 18 Mar 2010
- Messages
- 133
Outrageous, in my view - many fares are already excessively high.
atomicdanny
Member
and again the south east gets the worst of the increases... how fair is that!
Don't worry, there will be people along soon who will say that commuters deserve to be hit hard as they don't have to take jobs more than walking distance from their home... perhaps adding that if we had less commuters, we'd need less rolling stock too.
nedchester
Established Member
- Joined
- 28 May 2008
- Messages
- 2,093
Got to pay for the pay rise of those rail staff (I understand ATW drivers have got 7.8%, whilst many of us not in the rail industry have had our pay frozen!)
Whilst not defending the rumoured 7.8% wholly, you have to remember that it won't just be a pay rise. There will have been some productivity increases such as shortening of breaks, or booking on time, or more flexible rostering that also contributes to that figure. Very rarely when a pay rise in 3% or more is it just a plain pay rise, they'll also take something away too.
Polarbear
Established Member
The above inflation rise in rail fares shouldn't really come as a huge surprise, (despite the witterings of the BBC earlier today). It's been made clear by government that rail travellers are to be expected to pay up to 75% of the costs of the railway, as opposed to around 50% presently.
What I do find worrying is some of the large wage rises that continue to be agreed in the rail industry, often over & above the rate of inflation. Given the current economic climate, and that many people have had to accept a wage freeze or even a wage cut, the rail industry appears to be becoming ever more out of step with the rest of the UK.
The UK & its population does not have a bottomless pit of cash to continue racking up ever increasing wages in this sector. The warning signs are out there that there are those within government (and elsewhere) who would be all too happy to slash the rail network back to save on the ever increasing wage bill.
What I do find worrying is some of the large wage rises that continue to be agreed in the rail industry, often over & above the rate of inflation. Given the current economic climate, and that many people have had to accept a wage freeze or even a wage cut, the rail industry appears to be becoming ever more out of step with the rest of the UK.
The UK & its population does not have a bottomless pit of cash to continue racking up ever increasing wages in this sector. The warning signs are out there that there are those within government (and elsewhere) who would be all too happy to slash the rail network back to save on the ever increasing wage bill.
nedchester
Established Member
- Joined
- 28 May 2008
- Messages
- 2,093
Exactly what I was trying to say regarding the above inflation rise apparently agreed by ATW???
Commuters deserve to be hit hard as they don't...
...oops!
Seriously, these type sof fare increases will do little to tempt more people off the roads. but with the overcrowding we have in some areas, plus the increasing price of fuel, it's probably too tempting for the TOC's and government to resist these hikes.
Of course, if revenue doesn't increase as forecast then we may end up in a 1970's spiral of decline again...:cry:
...oops!
Seriously, these type sof fare increases will do little to tempt more people off the roads. but with the overcrowding we have in some areas, plus the increasing price of fuel, it's probably too tempting for the TOC's and government to resist these hikes.
Of course, if revenue doesn't increase as forecast then we may end up in a 1970's spiral of decline again...:cry:
Indeed.
I fear steps will be proposed to redress the balance, but the staff will strike because they should get a pay rise while everyone else doesn't. The railway will then become crippled as the public loses confidence due to the strikes, and many staff will lose their jobs as lines close and services are cut, because Bob won't compromise. He'd rather see mass closures than accept a compromise - although he'd never admit that, but that's what he'll get if he continues to be stubborn.
I hope that doesn't happen, but I fear it will.
Really? Rail fares keep rising yet people keep paying and passenger numbers keep growing...
The fuel duty rise in January combined with the effect of the VAT rise on this & everything else will no doubt push up the inflation rate. The RPI + 3% rise in fares planned for January 2012 could therefore be much higher than this year's.
While you could argue that someone could give up smoking or drinking, thus avoiding the hefty charges/duty, people can't so easily give up travel. The majority of it is probably not leisure travel, even at off-peak times.
If you have a job somewhere and the cost keeps going up to get there, do you quit your job? Do you seek work locally? IS there work locally?
In this new world where we all have friends and family all over the country/world, do we want to stop travelling to see them? No, and if people think rail fares are bad, wait until flying becomes totally unaffordable for many.
In mainland Europe, it's common to work in another country, so could we ever go back to working in our home town/village? Will employers ever learn to trust employees to work from home (those who are fortunate enough to have a job that would actually 'work' from home)?
No, just like increasing petrol duty, people will just have to cut back on other things and keep paying. And everyone knows this, which is why we can get such large price hikes.
Businesses/staff that can't buy advance tickets (as plans can and do change) might be able to pay the extortionate walk on fares, but don't these charges ultimately get passed on to someone else?
Therefore, why shouldn't fares be subsidised? Why shouldn't the Government realise that they're clearly getting a lot of people out of cars, and therefore overcrowding is a good thing - and justifies more spending, either on longer platforms, new lines, better signalling to allow trains to run closer together or whatever.
route:oxford
Established Member
- Joined
- 1 Nov 2008
- Messages
- 4,949
That's because for many trips, rail is the best option.
If I were to leave here in Oxford right now to go to Stirling, I could...
Jump in the car and be there in 6 hours - £110 in fuel return + £10 Bypass fee.
Jump on train and be there in 6h40m - £112 train fare.
Drive to Heathrow, park, first plane to Glasgow/Edinburgh, bus to city centre, train to Stirling - be ther in 5 hours, £400+Parking+Bus+Train.
I can accept the flight might be that expensive, but the costs must vary hugely for the car based on what car you choose to own. Once purchased, it makes more sense to use it (you're paying fixed costs regardless) and you can get a car that can do 50-70mpg quite easily these days.
The train is fine, except that price is for just you. What about your family or friends? Can you get Groupsave for such a journey when you turn up and go? Is groupsave even available at all on such a long (and somewhat exaggerated) journey?
Walk on fares are too high, and I've never understood why we can't get a national railcard that offers discounts to everyone for, say, £50-100 a year. You can then charge the full fare to people who make one or two trips a year at most, while others get a discount - of around 33% like any other railcard.
The train is fine, except that price is for just you. What about your family or friends? Can you get Groupsave for such a journey when you turn up and go? Is groupsave even available at all on such a long (and somewhat exaggerated) journey?
Walk on fares are too high, and I've never understood why we can't get a national railcard that offers discounts to everyone for, say, £50-100 a year. You can then charge the full fare to people who make one or two trips a year at most, while others get a discount - of around 33% like any other railcard.
Indeed.
I fear steps will be proposed to redress the balance, but the staff will strike because they should get a pay rise while everyone else doesn't. The railway will then become crippled as the public loses confidence due to the strikes, and many staff will lose their jobs as lines close and services are cut, because Bob won't compromise. He'd rather see mass closures than accept a compromise - although he'd never admit that, but that's what he'll get if he continues to be stubborn.
I hope that doesn't happen, but I fear it will.
I don't think it's accurate to say that no one else is getting a pay rise. Not all organisations are freezing pay this year, and not all did last year.
Indeed they do, but at some point there is a risk that fares could rise so much that people have no choice but to look for alternatives. Many prefer to travel by train and avoid traffic jams and the stress of driving, but if their season ticket goes up by 6.4% and motoring is cheaper, they may be forced into abandoning the train.
A good post, very thought provoking stuff! It bring sus back to whether the railway should be treated as a social necessity rather than as a commercial operation.
Walk up fares are far too high except for many short distance day returns, which seem pretty reasonable, especially when compared to locla rip off bus fares! The chances for a national railcard seem as remote as ever, and I doubt it will happen under this privatisation model.
A national railcard (or indeed a national smartcard system, which by its very nature can then begin to offer better deals to regular travellers, even if such travel is all over the place and at different times) is something that should be introduced by the Government and effectively forced upon the entire industry - in time for the many franchise renewals coming up.
Or, it's introduced by the Government and we see if competition actually works and TOCs feel compelled to support it because if they don't, their rival will.
There are signs that the Government is pushing for the faster roll out of smartcards, but who knows if that will actually happen.
Or, it's introduced by the Government and we see if competition actually works and TOCs feel compelled to support it because if they don't, their rival will.
There are signs that the Government is pushing for the faster roll out of smartcards, but who knows if that will actually happen.
bb21
Emeritus Moderator
- Joined
- 4 Feb 2010
- Messages
- 24,471
I don't think anyone is saying that rail staff shouldn't get a pay rise, but surely a figure such as 7.8% in this day and age does seem a bit generous. I understand that there are efficiency improvements that go with it but there are many out there who have not had a pay increase for probably two years and still have to make efficiency savings for their companies. I work for the university so yes I got my 0.5% pay increase this year however for that I had to agree to teaching larger classes, have bigger marking loads, et, due to budget cuts. Of course if the figure is something more like 2% then it would probably not raise so many eyebrows.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Also I'm sure on yesterday's ITV news they did a piece on rail fare increase and the SET line they travelled on were reported to see a 13% increase for season tickets. So much worse than reported on BBC.
I'm not in favour of large pay increases at this time, but without knowing the details of the reported 7.8% rise for ATW drivers, I can't comment too much. What I do know is that if true it is far, far higher than lower paid ATW staff have been offered.
- Status