Rail evasion Chiltern railways

[anxiety]

Hi,
Does Chiltren always take extreme action first or try to settle first?

Hi, I'm leaving a message on this conversation as it seems recent and active. I won't lie I did fare dodging to save up money several times now, not on daily basis but weekends. I was from Wembley park and caught after high Wycombe I was travelling till Oxford Parkway without a ticket and I saw ticket inspector and immediately booked ticket he anyway caught me. I denied at first but then accepted that I just booked. he also checked my ticket history on trainline and he got suspicious because I mostly had short journey tickets.

I got extremely anxious and I apologized and said I'm ready to pay fine and won't do it again. But he anyway took my details and asked to sign a paper which I don't remember what it was as I was extremely anxious

I'm not a person who does fare dodging but living here is so expensive that I started doing it to save money for further visa.


The company is Chiltren railways.

Do they take extreme steps or they try to settle first with penalty?

I'm really ashamed and have learned my lesson.

Any advice?

Feeling extremely anxious and worried and it seems the letter comes after 3-6months which is making me more worried as I might change my visa status do you think this will be a problem for my visas?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Mar 2023 ==

Extremely worried about my current employment and further visa.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Chiltern Railways outsource their prosecution matters to a company called TIL. Out of court settlements can happen, but from what I've heard, it's not easy (more knowledgeable experts will happily give you advice on how to achieve an out of court settlement)

No need to be worried about employment, worst that can happen is a court fine and a non recordable criminal offence that's considered "spent" after a year.

As for visa matters, unfortunately due to legal reasons, only qualified immigration advisors are allowed to give you advice. So I'm afraid we the general public won't be able to offer you advice.

 

[John R]

I'm not a person who does fare dodging

Others will be along to give you advice, but I would suggest that you need to be open and honest in any dealings with the authorities, and to do that, you need to be honest with yourself first as to your position. You are a fare dodger, and not just a one-off either, and the railway knows that already. If you try to suggest otherwise they are unlikely to believe anything that you say to them.

 

[AlterEgo]

Hi,
Does Chiltren always take extreme action first or try to settle first?

Hi, I'm leaving a message on this conversation as it seems recent and active. I won't lie I did fare dodging to save up money several times now, not on daily basis but weekends. I was from Wembley park and caught after high Wycombe I was travelling till Oxford Parkway without a ticket and I saw ticket inspector and immediately booked ticket he anyway caught me. I denied at first but then accepted that I just booked.

You mention Wembley Park - this is a London Underground station. Do you mean this, or Wembley Stadium, the Chiltern station? Where did you start your journey?

Which ticket did you book when you saw the inspector? When were you caught?

he also checked my ticket history on trainline and he got suspicious because I mostly had short journey tickets.

What short journey tickets was he suspicious of in your Trainline Account? Which stations are the tickets valid from and to?

I got extremely anxious and I apologized and said I'm ready to pay fine and won't do it again. But he anyway took my details and asked to sign a paper which I don't remember what it was as I was extremely anxious

This is a report for prosecution. It's a bylaw (minor) offence to board a train without a valid ticket in many cases, but a more serious offence is under the Regulation of Railways Act 1889, which requires you to intend to evade the fare. We will need more clarity on exactly what tickets were held and how often they will have evidence of fare evasion to advise specifically. The company will write to you to ask for your side of the story - be aware your reply is admissible in court as evidence. When you get the letter the forum will help you draft a reply to hopefully stave off the threat of court, although Chiltern are very hardline. Barely a week goes by without someone coming here with some fare evasion they've committed, invariably involving Wembley and I imagine Chiltern are quite sick of it.

I'm not a person who does fare dodging but living here is so expensive that I started doing it to save money for further visa.

Well, you are a fare dodger and you intentionally dodged fares. If you are in the country on a visa it means you are a guest and not a citizen, so there is an even larger onus on you to be scrupulously honest and avoid committing offences involving dishonesty.

The company is Chiltren railways.

Do they take extreme steps or they try to settle first with penalty?

The company will usually prosecute you in the magistrates' court for the offence, although it is on some rare occasions possible to settle with them out of court, by paying every last fare you avoided plus an administration fee of between £100-200. This is extremely difficult to do and involves being unfailingly honest about the extent of your offending.

I'm really ashamed and have learned my lesson.

Any advice?

Feeling extremely anxious and worried and it seems the letter comes after 3-6months which is making me more worried as I might change my visa status do you think this will be a problem for my visas?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Mar 2023 ==

Extremely worried about my current employment and further visa.

None of us can really give advice about your visa - they are complicated and specialist and very expensive, and because of their nature it's not something that the average British person will know about - we'll never need a UK visa, because we live here. You should read the online guidance about your visa very carefully and consult and immigration advisor to find out it if will affect your current visa, any future visa application, or any application for ILR or citizenship.

It's really important you fill us in with ALL the details of the evasion, both the time you were caught and any historic instances too. This will give us the best chance of giving the best advice.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi,
Does Chiltren always take extreme action first or try to settle first?

Hello and welcome.

I am afraid that Chiltern Railways has a reputation of taking fare evasion very seriously and would seem to rarely if ever offer a settlement first. They will write to you threatening court action and it will be up to you to try and seek to persuade them to offer you a settlement. This often takes 2 or 3 letters to them to get ot the point where they agree to do it - and that can not be taken as they automatically will. As you have done this on more than one occasion it reduces the chances of a settlement but it is not impossible to get one.

There are several other recent threads on here involving fare evasion with Chiltern. It would be a good idea for you to have a look through them to get an idea of what will happen. Look for ones where people have uploaded copies of the letters they have received. (see link below that I have added)

When you get the letter from them you can of course get good advice from this forum on how best to respond to them.

You should be aware that they will now be checking your ticket purchase history with any on line retailer to work out the other occasions when you have done this. They will be seeking re-imbursement of the full, undiscounted fares at the most expensive price (the Anytime Fare) for every one of those journeys, and that would be part of any settlement or any action they take in court if they take it to court.

Going forward it would be wise for you to investigate carefully any legitimate ways you can reduce your trains fares without evading fares - eg if a season ticket or a Railcard would help reduce the fares.

Also - now that you have been caught, and you would like to settle you have to be 100% sure that you have the correct fare every time before you get on any trains. If you are not sure ask staff at ticket offices to check your ticket before you get on the train.


EDIT - this is a thread that it may be helpful for you to read through to get an idea what happened with the person concerned who asked for advice here:

Notice of Intended Prosecution - How long to wait?

Hi guys On Monday I received an NIP with regards to short ticketing, which I was shamefully caught doing a few months ago, as well as an allegation of other rail journeys being investigated in the month prior. I have responded (over email since that was where the correspondence was initially...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[anxiety]

You mention Wembley Park - this is a London Underground station. Do you mean this, or Wembley Stadium, the Chiltern station? Where did you start your journey?

Which ticket did you book when you saw the inspector? When were you caught?


What short journey tickets was he suspicious of in your Trainline Account? Which stations are the tickets valid from and to?


This is a report for prosecution. It's a bylaw (minor) offence to board a train without a valid ticket in many cases, but a more serious offence is under the Regulation of Railways Act 1889, which requires you to intend to evade the fare. We will need more clarity on exactly what tickets were held and how often they will have evidence of fare evasion to advise specifically. The company will write to you to ask for your side of the story - be aware your reply is admissible in court as evidence. When you get the letter the forum will help you draft a reply to hopefully stave off the threat of court, although Chiltern are very hardline. Barely a week goes by without someone coming here with some fare evasion they've committed, invariably involving Wembley and I imagine Chiltern are quite sick of it.


Well, you are a fare dodger and you intentionally dodged fares. If you are in the country on a visa it means you are a guest and not a citizen, so there is an even larger onus on you to be scrupulously honest and avoid committing offences involving dishonesty.


The company will usually prosecute you in the magistrates' court for the offence, although it is on some rare occasions possible to settle with them out of court, by paying every last fare you avoided plus an administration fee of between £100-200. This is extremely difficult to do and involves being unfailingly honest about the extent of your offending.



None of us can really give advice about your visa - they are complicated and specialist and very expensive, and because of their nature it's not something that the average British person will know about - we'll never need a UK visa, because we live here. You should read the online guidance about your visa very carefully and consult and immigration advisor to find out it if will affect your current visa, any future visa application, or any application for ILR or citizenship.

It's really important you fill us in with ALL the details of the evasion, both the time you were caught and any historic instances too. This will give us the best chance of giving the best advice.

I was travelling from Wembley stadium to Oxford Parkway. And bought a ticket from high Wycombe to Oxford Parkway.

There are some short tickets from oxford parkway to Bicester. Only some of them are short not all. Twice from Wembley stadium to Marylebone.

I feel like it will be best if I go to solicitor as I'm on work visa.

I was just caught once.

 

[anxiety]

@AlterEgo

I was travelling from Wembley stadium to Oxford Parkway. And bought a ticket from high Wycombe to Oxford Parkway.

There are some short tickets from oxford parkway to Bicester. Only some of them are short not all. Twice from Wembley stadium to Marylebone.

I feel like it will be best if I go to solicitor as I'm on work visa.

I was just caught once.

 

[AlterEgo]

I was travelling from Wembley stadium to Oxford Parkway. And bought a ticket from high Wycombe to Oxford Parkway.

There are some short tickets from oxford parkway to Bicester. Only some of them are short not all. Twice from Wembley stadium to Marylebone.

I feel like it will be best if I go to solicitor as I'm on work visa.

I was just caught once.

So you short fared on the occasion they caught you - did the inspector pick up on this and did you admit you had travelled from Wembley Stadium?

Is it the case that you have been habitually short faring? The first thing they will do is look at your address and see if you have a legitimate reason to be travelling from Wembley Stadium, for example, if you live nearby.

This station is essentially the national capital for detected short faring - it has no barriers, connections to a wide network, and you can buy a paper ticket from there. The bad news is that there is very little reason to buy a paper ticket from Wembley Stadium to Marylebone. It's £6.40 single, but contactless is either £3.20 or £4.40 depending on the time of day. Investigators know that one of the main reasons for buying a paper ticket is because the person is coming from further afield and cannot take advantage of the contactless fare because...they aren't boarding at Wembley Stadium. And they need to pass the barriers.

You will need to think hard about what the investigators might think about your travel pattern.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum.

Some good advice has already been posted in this thread but here's the advice I normally give to people who ask for our help in similar circulstances to yourself.

You will receive a letter from the train company or an investigation company acting on their behalf. The letter will typically take a couple of months to arrive but can be sooner although it shouldn't take longer than six months. The letter will say that they have received a report, are considering prosecuting you and asking for your version of events before deciding how to proceed. It is important that you engage with and reply to this letter. You might want to include the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company is within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court.

An aggravating factor in your case is that you have done this before. The train company will be able to search your purchase history and you will need to be careful how you reply to the letter. You should answer the questions they ask for truthfully but you are not required to incriminate yourself either.

If you are offered a settlement the amount varies depending on the train company and circumstances but tend to be a few hundred pounds plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

I don't feel you need a solicitor at this stage. Personally I would wait and see what happens after you reply to their letter, you can always appoint a solicitor at a later stage if Chiltern did decide to send the case to the Magistrates COurt.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter once it arrives (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it. for you.

 

[anxiety]

@Hadders thank you for your response. It was really helpful for to get a little bit of peace of mind. I'll wait untill I get the letter. And I'll keep posting the update. Thank you everyone for the response. It helped me calm down a little.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Apr 2023 ==

Was just wondering, he asked me few questions like

Were you trying to save money?
Did you had enough money to buy full fare ticket?

Said YES to both questions. And then he made me sign some paper.

Any idea what that paper is ? Do they generally ask people to sign a paper?

 

[WesternLancer]

@Hadders thank you for your response. It was really helpful for to get a little bit of peace of mind. I'll wait untill I get the letter. And I'll keep posting the update. Thank you everyone for the response. It helped me calm down a little.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Apr 2023 ==

Was just wondering, he asked me few questions like

Were you trying to save money?
Did you had enough money to buy full fare ticket?

Said YES to both questions. And then he made me sign some paper.

Any idea what that paper is ? Do they generally ask people to sign a paper?

Not sure what the paper was but prob you signed to agree the answers to those questions, and perhaps to confirm your name and postal address was corrrect.

The questions are designed (sadly for you) to help secure a conviction if it went to prosecution in court I think - happy for others to correct me if that is wrong. IE by saying 'yes' to the questions you admitted that you had enough money to buy a ticket but chose not to do so - ie you made a deliberate decision to evade the fare - thus you are guilty of fare evasion and have already admitted that when stopped and questioned about it.

As opposed to (perhaps) say someone who had been mugged, lost all their possessions/money/cards/wallet on them at the time, and was trying to get home - not sure if that is a great example but you get the idea.

However, you answered honestly when caught so that is probably no bad thing.