Rail and Sail from Nuneaton.

[james60059]

Hi Folks,

I'm going to Ireland in September and looking at going the Holyhead - Dublin route. Now the dilemma is when I look at prices and timings for the rail and ferry services, train arrival into Holyhead is 11:20 and ferry departure is 11:50, now Irish Ferries state that check-in is open up until 30 minutes prior to departure of the vessel so in effect you miss check-in, despite it being a booked connection.

Now, there is an earlier departure from Nuneaton (06:45) with changes at Crewe and Chester, with an arrival into Holyhead at 10:36 which is better because you get to the port in a comfortable time for check-in.

The question is, if I book straight through to Dublin (timings say 07:29 from Nuneaton) can I still use the earlier time (06:45) from Nuneaton to ensure I get to Holyhead in good time??

Cheers,

James

 

[OwlMan]

Advanced sailrail tickets (£37) are only valid on booked trains. Standby / Standard tickets are valid on any train

 

[gordonthemoron]

If you use the Virgin WC website, it gives you the 6:45 departure as you describe for £47. If you are booked on the later train, you will miss the ferry, be 3.5 hours late and ATW will have to give you a full refund

 

[Flying Snail]

Hi Folks,

I'm going to Ireland in September and looking at going the Holyhead - Dublin route. Now the dilemma is when I look at prices and timings for the rail and ferry services, train arrival into Holyhead is 11:20 and ferry departure is 11:50, now Irish Ferries state that check-in is open up until 30 minutes prior to departure of the vessel so in effect you miss check-in, despite it being a booked connection.

Now, there is an earlier departure from Nuneaton (06:45) with changes at Crewe and Chester, with an arrival into Holyhead at 10:36 which is better because you get to the port in a comfortable time for check-in.

The question is, if I book straight through to Dublin (timings say 07:29 from Nuneaton) can I still use the earlier time (06:45) from Nuneaton to ensure I get to Holyhead in good time??

Cheers,

James

There is already a thread on here with people missing that connection.

ATW made a mistake with that, previously it was the 10.36 arrival that had the official connection, it looks like they altered the 11.20 (which was previously 11.22) and didn't account for 30mins being too short for a proper ferry connection.

As for booking it and using the earlier train, AFAIR the cheaper sailrail advance tickets are issued as advances with booked trains so you may run into trouble if on the wrong trains.


Edit: Depending on which day I select the ATW website lists either the earlier 10.36 or the dodgy 11.20 connection for booking and for some reason doesn't seem to give the advance fare, only the more expensive sailrail single £47 fare that isn't tied to specific trains anyway.


As Gordon says, you could game the system for a refund by using the 11.20 arrival if you don't mind hanging around Holyhead for a few hours. You would want to try to make it as they don't always close the ferry check-in strictly on time so even with an 11.20 arrival it may be possible to make the connection.

Also worth noting is the 11.50 is the swift sailing that is subject to cancellation in anything more than moderate seas as it is today so worth checking before setting off, you may end up bumped to the 14.10 sailing anyway.

 

[gray1404]

ATW really do need to fix this issue too of the connection not being valid for the 11:50 departure. This is even more frustrating because the 11:50 is one of their fast craft departures so if a customer misses this then they have to not only wait for the next sailing but that will take much longer crossing the Irish sea.

I am sure this happens on a daily basis passengers arriving at Holyhead only to be told they cannot board.

Is there any changes in ATW correcting their timetable so it does connect? Either that or they start offering the cheaper Advance fare on the 10.36 arrival?

 

[james60059]

Thank You all for the replies so far, it really does seem daft having the 11:20 arrival as the booked time, I actually messaged Irish Ferries regarding this and the reply even said that it's NOT the booked connection either, although they do keep keep check-in open for a couple minutes longer, it is important to get the safety checks done and the vessel away on time which of course is very understandable.

Just out of curiosity, I seen the train was 4 miutes late arriving into HHD today at 11:24 (had a gander at RTT )

Cheers,

James

 

[gray1404]

I guess if you are arriving on the 11.20, it is running on time and you get to the front of the train and make sure you are the first one off and you know exactly the way to the check in counter then you might stand a chance. It is not ideal or indeed acceptable and it really must annoy Irish ferries, not to mention mess up with their load figures.

 

[SickyNicky]

The electronic data shows that the minimum connection time at Holyhead (HHD) is 30 minutes.

http://www.brtimes.com/#!board?stn=HHD&date=20170721

So, any itinerary which has at least 30 mins at HHD is a valid itinerary. If they've recently retimed a service to make this connection valid, but it's too tight in practice, it would be a simple job to increase this minimum connection time. But that might affect other connections in the day (I don't know for sure).

I can confirm that both Trainline and TrainSplit will offer this (technically valid) itinerary. I will make enquiries through our contacts.

 

[james60059]

I had a look for the Saturday (23rd) and the train has an arrival time of 11:05 into HHD, with an 11:50 departure for the boat, now that seems a more manageable connection I must say .

Might do the Saturday instead, as it seems more feasible, plus it's cheaper too

Thank You all again for the replies.

 

[alastair]

Hi Folks,

I'm going to Ireland in September and looking at going the Holyhead - Dublin route. Now the dilemma is when I look at prices and timings for the rail and ferry services, train arrival into Holyhead is 11:20 and ferry departure is 11:50, now Irish Ferries state that check-in is open up until 30 minutes prior to departure of the vessel so in effect you miss check-in, despite it being a booked connection.

Now, there is an earlier departure from Nuneaton (06:45) with changes at Crewe and Chester, with an arrival into Holyhead at 10:36 which is better because you get to the port in a comfortable time for check-in.

The question is, if I book straight through to Dublin (timings say 07:29 from Nuneaton) can I still use the earlier time (06:45) from Nuneaton to ensure I get to Holyhead in good time??

Cheers,

James

Another thing to take into account is that the 1150 service is the Dublin Swift fast ferry which is cancelled if stormy sea conditions are expected. If this happens you will have to hang around in Holyhead until the Ulysses full size ferry at 1410 which does not get to Dublin until 1725. This has happened to me in late September in the past.

 

[Camden]

If you are booked on the later train, you will miss the ferry, be 3.5 hours late and ATW will have to give you a full refund

Sounds like a good deal to me. Either you make it on time and have a decent journey with minimal hanging around, or you have 3.5 hours for a decent lunch and a 10 minute stroll, then off to the Emerald Isle FOC!

 

[tivoli]

Sounds like a good deal to me. Either you make it on time and have a decent journey with minimal hanging around, or you have 3.5 hours for a decent lunch and a 10 minute stroll, then off to the Emerald Isle FOC!

I have always struggled to find anywhere decent to go to at Holyhead. Would seriously like to know of any recommendations.

 

[gray1404]

Quite honestly if you are going to miss your connection at Holyhead I would get off at Bangor and spend the time there.

 

[Flying Snail]

Sounds like a good deal to me. Either you make it on time and have a decent journey with minimal hanging around, or you have 3.5 hours for a decent lunch and a 10 minute stroll, then off to the Emerald Isle FOC!

It wouldn't be 3.5 hrs, closer to 2 hrs as check-in for the next IF sailing closes at 13.40.

 

[Flying Snail]

I have always struggled to find anywhere decent to go to at Holyhead. Would seriously like to know of any recommendations.

Don't spend any more time in Holyhead than necessary would be my rec.

The Travelodge is close to the train/ferry and is OK for an overnight stay as long as you can get it cheap but the town is pretty grim. There are some nice walks away from the town but a bit far on foot unless you have a very long wait.

As above Bangor would be a slightly better bet for a few hours loitering.

 

[James Wake]

But with SailRail tickets you can't break your journey I don't think, so you would have to continue to Holyhead.

 

[gray1404]

But with SailRail tickets you can't break your journey I don't think, so you would have to continue to Holyhead.

It depends, if you have suffered a delay I and need to kill some time then I would expect staff to show discretion. That said, there are some nice little tea rooms in Holyhead so I guess having a potter around as a one off won't hurt.

 

[cactustwirly]

Do Stena line not do sail rail? That might be a better option for the OP

 

[Clip]

ATW really do need to fix this issue too of the connection not being valid for the 11:50 departure. This is even more frustrating because the 11:50 is one of their fast craft departures so if a customer misses this then they have to not only wait for the next sailing but that will take much longer crossing the Irish sea.

I am sure this happens on a daily basis passengers arriving at Holyhead only to be told they cannot board.

Is there any changes in ATW correcting their timetable so it does connect? Either that or they start offering the cheaper Advance fare on the 10.36 arrival?

Lets be fair to ATEW here as they have to run on a network that inter connects everywhere else so them altering their own train may just not be possible.

How about the ferry company changing their sailing times to ensure a decent connection with the train? after all once they're at sea they can manoeuvre around a lot whereas trains kind of find that a bit difficult funnily enough

 

[gray1404]

Both ferry companies operate on Sail Rail however you have to specify which company you want to travel with at the time of buying the ticket as this is reflected in the route restriction of the ticket. This is quite frustrating if you suffer a delay because you have to go on the next service of the ferry company you have committed to.

This problem appears to have now been fixed. Both Virgin WC and thetrainline.com (never book though trainline!) are now offering arrivals into Holyhead at 10.36 departing on the 11.50 including the Advance fare. (bearing in mind you do pay an additional £5 to go on the fast craft service).

What would now be ideal is if Arriva Trains Wales can retime their 11.20 arrival to arrive some time between 11am and 11.15 to to offer a good connection.

For those that were able to obtain tickets and an itinerary arriving Holyhead at 11.20 and departing at 11.50, I think this would be very complicated and I am unsure if there would be any entitlement. If the ATW arrived on time at 11.20 and you still missed the ferry due to the check in closing time also being 11.20 then there is no delay on the part of ATW so how could you claim against them?

 

[najaB]

If the ATW arrived on time at 11.20 and you still missed the ferry due to the check in closing time also being 11.20 then there is no delay on the part of ATW so how could you claim against them?

As noted above, the check-in is normally held open for any train passengers, so as long as the train is running to time there isn't likely to be a problem.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Lets be fair to ATEW here as they have to run on a network that inter connects everywhere else so them altering their own train may just not be possible.

How about the ferry company changing their sailing times to ensure a decent connection with the train? after all once they're at sea they can manoeuvre around a lot whereas trains kind of find that a bit difficult funnily enough

The ferry companies didn't change their sailing times and ATW/Virgin did not change the arrival times into Holyhead. What changed was ATW decided that they could get away with a shorter connection (the 30 mins connection at Holyhead hasn't changed either), so it is entirely ATW's fault

 

[Flying Snail]

The ferry companies didn't change their sailing times and ATW/Virgin did not change the arrival times into Holyhead. What changed was ATW decided that they could get away with a shorter connection (the 30 mins connection at Holyhead hasn't changed either), so it is entirely ATW's fault

ATW did change the times, that train used to be timed to arrive at 11.22, by moving it back to 11.20 it qualified for the 30min connection. An unintended knock-on I expect, anyone without local knowledge wouldn't have known the effect it had. Pushing the arrival back out to 11.21 for the next timetable would be the simplest solution.

It would probably be better if 40 or 45 mns was given as min connection for Train to Ferry passengers. Ferry to Train doesn't need to include check-in times so can be a lot less although with the need for a bus transfer it usually takes 20-30 minutes, when the HSS was in service it was possible to get from Ferry to Train in about 5 minutes if you hustled.

 

[Flying Snail]

Both ferry companies operate on Sail Rail however you have to specify which company you want to travel with at the time of buying the ticket as this is reflected in the route restriction of the ticket. This is quite frustrating if you suffer a delay because you have to go on the next service of the ferry company you have committed to.

If the delay is caused by the need to switch the Rail ticket office at HHD should sort you out, I have seen them swap tickets to the other ferry operator there before.

The 13.50 Stena is a tight 32 min connection from the 13.17 ATW arrival. If people miss the check-in for that they usually end up getting sent back to the ATW desk by the Irish Ferries check-in which closes 20 minutes later.


If the issue is ferry related however the ATW staff won't swap tickets. This most often occurs when the 17.15 Irish Ferries swift sailing is cancelled. IF won't take foot passengers on their next sailing at 20.00 so passengers are directed to the 02.40 departure. Stena do take foot passengers on their evening departure at 20.30 but there is no ticket acceptance with IF passengers.

Anyone going for the fast ferry sailings, particularly the 17.15 really needs to keep an eye on the weather and IF sailing updates and plan for potentially switching to the 14.10 IF or 2030 Stena if necessary.

In the other direction the 14.30 Swift sailing is the one that catches people out, Irish Ferries direct passengers to their 20.55 sailing which as well as being a massive delay also has no proper rail connections at HHD, the best alternative is the 15.10 Stena departure but the same ticketing issues come up with that.

 

[james60059]

Thank You everyone again for the replies, in the end I've settled for the Fishguard - Rosslare route. The timings seem more better especially now as Stena sail at 13:10 from FGH as opposed to 14:30 which was the case for many years, and of course it's a ferry which no doubt will run even if the sea is a bit choppy.

 

[Clip]

What would now be ideal is if Arriva Trains Wales can retime their 11.20 arrival to arrive some time between 11am and 11.15 to to offer a good connection.

And ill ask again - if they moved the timings back how would that then affect the train from where it started from and all other journeys that interconnect with it on route?

The ferry companies didn't change their sailing times and ATW/Virgin did not change the arrival times into Holyhead. What changed was ATW decided that they could get away with a shorter connection (the 30 mins connection at Holyhead hasn't changed either), so it is entirely ATW's fault

I never said the ferry companies di I said how about them changing their sailing times so that people could make the connection.