Radio Traffic

[copernicium112]

Is it possible to listen in on radio communications on the railway in the uk and how?

 

[380101]

Is it possible to listen in on radio communications on the railway in the uk and how?

No. It's not even a radio anymore. it's a GSM based digital phone system that is encrypted. Only time it reverts to radio mode (simplex) is during an emergency call.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

You might pick up some back to back radio stuff at large stations or depots with a scanner. Anything between train crew and signallers is a proprietary form of GSM and is (I think) encrypted.

 

[DarloRich]

Is it possible to listen in on radio communications on the railway in the uk and how?

no it is not. Anyway it is a secure digital phone system these days

 

[pdeaves]

Just use a normal radio anywhere on the railway and listen in to the programmes

Not answering the question you are really asking, but radio broadcasts are all 'communications' and you would be 'on the railway'.

 

[infobleep]

Not being a radio ham, was it ever possible to listen to radio communications? I know it was possible with old analogue mobiles.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[ComUtoR]

May I ask why ?

Most of the communication is boring and functional.

Here is a typical transcript from my location.

"Morning Signaller, this is the Driver of 5XXX, permission to drop down to the exit signal on 1rd sidings to TRTS, over."

"Yes Driver, you have my permission to pull up to XXXX signal and TRTS. Await change of aspect, got one in front I gotta let out first. Signaller out"

"Driver out"

 

[BestWestern]

May I ask why ?

Most of the communication is boring and functional.

Here is a typical transcript from my location.

"Morning Signaller, this is the Driver of 5XXX, permission to drop down to the exit signal on 1rd sidings to TRTS, over."

"Yes Driver, you have my permission to pull up to XXXX signal and TRTS. Await change of aspect, got one in front I gotta let out first. Signaller out"

"Driver out"

Your last line is superfluous

 

[Scotrail84]

You can pick up radio transmissions at any major railway station or depots. Just need a scanner, its not illegal to listen in i don't think.

 

[AlterEgo]

It's illegal.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/ass...7/Guidance-on-Receive-Only-Radio-Scanners.pdf

Unauthorised reception

There are two criminal offences, under section 48 of the Wireless Telegraphy Act 2006,
relating to unauthorised reception.

Offence 1

It is an offence if a person "otherwise than under the authority of a designated person:

uses wireless telegraphy apparatus with intent to obtain information as to the contents, sender or addressee of any message whether sent by means of wireless telegraphy or not, of which neither the person using the apparatus nor a person on whose behalf he is acting is an intended recipient."

This means that it is illegal to listen to anything other than general reception transmissions unless you are either a licensed user of the frequencies in question or have been specifically authorised to do so by a designated person.

 

[axlecounter]

Your last line is superfluous

Why? Shouldn't the caller end a call?

 

[EM2]

Why? Shouldn't the caller end a call?

'Out' from the signaller means 'There is no further information needed or for me to pass, and the call is ended'.
Driver doesn't need to respond.

 

[DarloRich]

I think most people would be terribly disappointed by the radio calls made between signal box and driver. They are, usually, really dull. It isnt like a cab dispatch cb!

 

[D1009]

You can pick up radio transmissions at any major railway station or depots. Just need a scanner, its not illegal to listen in i don't think.

The level of volume at which some station staff have their radios, you don't even need a scanner.

 

[pdeaves]

'Out' from the signaller means 'There is no further information needed or for me to pass, and the call is ended'.
Driver doesn't need to respond.

Quite. "Signaller out" effectively means "I'm not listening any more", so you can say what you want after that (or nothing at all), it wouldn't make any difference.

 

[Stigy]

Quite. "Signaller out" effectively means "I'm not listening any more", so you can say what you want after that (or nothing at all), it wouldn't make any difference.

Being pedantic here really, but good practice in that conversation would have been for the Signaller to say 'over' and the driver to say 'all received. Out' or similar so as to confirm understanding.

 

[thenorthern]

While I was on the train today the driver's radio tripped three times and therefore the train couldn't move for safety reasons.

Not a good day for delays.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

Not being a radio ham, was it ever possible to listen to radio communications? I know it was possible with old analogue mobiles.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

CSR and NRN was /are trunked systems so monitoring that requires some knowledge and a trunking capable reciever in addition to any encryption or scrambling used
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Being pedantic here really, but good practice in that conversation would have been for the Signaller to say 'over' and the driver to say 'all received. Out' or similar so as to confirm understanding.

the signaller has control of the net , (s)he is the person who decides when the conversation is over ...

to end a conversation where the final 'transaction' is the controller passing information to the mobile

Controller: rhubarb, rhubarb rhubarb , over.

mobile : all recieved, over.

controller : <control callsign> Out .

 

[headshot119]

It's illegal.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/ass...7/Guidance-on-Receive-Only-Radio-Scanners.pdf

Unauthorised reception

There are two criminal offences, under section 48 of the Wireless Telegraphy Act 2006,
relating to unauthorised reception.

Offence 1

It is an offence if a person "otherwise than under the authority of a designated person:

uses wireless telegraphy apparatus with intent to obtain information as to the contents, sender or addressee of any message whether sent by means of wireless telegraphy or not, of which neither the person using the apparatus nor a person on whose behalf he is acting is an intended recipient."

This means that it is illegal to listen to anything other than general reception transmissions unless you are either a licensed user of the frequencies in question or have been specifically authorised to do so by a designated person.

There must be a lot of aviation enthusiasts out there who are breaking the law then!

 

[Economist]

Talking about aviation, I think if the OP thought that the railways radio was in the same league as Kennedy Steve he/she is going to be disappointed.

Reminds me of one story from the 70's when apparently a BA flight was having some trouble navigating around the taxiways at Frankfurt. The tower controller said "Speedbird XXXX, have you not been here before" to which the BA captain replied "visited in 1944, didn't stop!".

Mind you, this was from the Funny ATC thread on PPRuNe, so it could all be total bull****.

 

[AlterEgo]

There must be a lot of aviation enthusiasts out there who are breaking the law then!

Indeed.

 

[signallerscot]

You can listen in to RETB transmissions with a conventional scanner (both the old and next gen systems) if you know the appropriate frequencies, as they are true radio systems and aren't encrypted in any way. But, as already stated, the conversations are very dull indeed.

 

[Sunset route]

The amount of times I've used the terms "over" and "out" in there proper context while using the radio you can count on one hand in the twenty or so years I've used CSR, NRM and GSM-R, that was to a voyager driver coming off depot and when I received a call on my auto line from him and even then he had to say he was using the radio not mobile. I think that was the only time I've ever recieved or sent a NRM radio call. But CSR/GSM-R I've been using since their introduction and apart from REC calls on GSM-R there is no requirement to use the phrases "over" or "out" but the LOMs locally like us the end all call "Signaller X location out" for their auditing purposes.

 

[Scotrail84]

A google search will find you the frequency of Edinburgh Waverley station radios if you're really interested in hearing them.

 

[godfreycomplex]

"Signaller out" and "driver out" are unnecessary on a simplex system and not mandated by any rule (except in the case of a REC call where the GSM-R reverts to a simplex system as has been stated). Many signallers (myself included) also find them somewhat rude; although we realise that most of it is the habit of using the old CSR (in my neck of the woods) system; which did require "out"; rather than any malice of forethought.
I essentially treat the GSM-R like a telephone. It looks like a phone; it rings like a phone; you can both talk at the same time; it's got a spiral cable; basically it's a phone and saying "out" on the phone to someone is the height of bad manners.

 

[DarloRich]

Talking about aviation, I think if the OP thought that the railways radio was in the same league as Kennedy Steve he/she is going to be disappointed.

Reminds me of one story from the 70's when apparently a BA flight was having some trouble navigating around the taxiways at Frankfurt. The tower controller said "Speedbird XXXX, have you not been here before" to which the BA captain replied "visited in 1944, didn't stop!".

Mind you, this was from the Funny ATC thread on PPRuNe, so it could all be total bull****.

Almost as good as Bob Paisley: "This is the second time I've beaten the Germans here... the first time was in 1944. I drove into Rome on a tank when the city was liberated.

 

[Sunset route]

To be honest I'm not altogether sure why someone would want to listen to signaller to driver radio coms, they are quite infrequent and most of the time short or what I would consider boring to the outside world. In normal running a signaller gives instructions to drivers by the signals being set. There is no requirement to talk to drivers in normal running only in times of failure or God forbid a REC call because some mother has decided to end it all with a three year old child (that once happened in our area, not long after GSM-R replaced CSR. Control found that really exciting & interesting being able to hear what was going on until the full distressing details started coming out, then they wished they couldn't hear it all). It's been a good day if I haven't spoken to any train drivers, it's been a bad day if I've had to caution 15 trains an hour over the up fast line due to a persistent track circuit failure over a junction.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

"Signaller out" and "driver out" are unnecessary on a simplex system and not mandated by any rule (except in the case of a REC call where the GSM-R reverts to a simplex system as has been stated). Many signallers (myself included) also find them somewhat rude; although we realise that most of it is the habit of using the old CSR (in my neck of the woods) system; which did require "out"; rather than any malice of forethought.
I essentially treat the GSM-R like a telephone. It looks like a phone; it rings like a phone; you can both talk at the same time; it's got a spiral cable; basically it's a phone and saying "out" on the phone to someone is the height of bad manners.

I am a little surprised at such an attitude. Conversations between signallers and traincrew are almost always of a safety critical nature and as such are subject to the appropriate communication protocol. This includes use of "out" as well as "over". It is also encumbent on the signaller to "lead" or "control" the conversation. As a guard I spoke to signallers infrequently but certainly not rarely and always found them conscientious in adhering to protocol. The fact that GSM-R looks like a telephone does not mean that it should be used in precisely the same way as a telephone. Indeed I doubt that signallers often use GSM-R for anything other than safety critical communications. It's also worth remembering that GSM-R is available for use by staff who will almost never have to engage in a safety critical conversation, which may explain why it has been designed to function so much like a telephone.

 

[EM2]

I must admit that I have used 'over' when talking to a signaller on the phone, but that's because I've forgotten that I'm on the phone and not the radio!

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Being pedantic here really, but good practice in that conversation would have been for the Signaller to say 'over' and the driver to say 'all received. Out' or similar so as to confirm understanding.

Being more pedantic, it's only the Signaller who can say 'out' as he is in control of the conversation.