GWRtom
Member
http://rt.com/news/kalashnikov-dies-inventor-ak-47-887/ 
One of the most influential people in recent history.
One of the most influential people in recent history.
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R.I.P Mikhail Kalashnikov
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Noteworthy certainly, but 'one of the greatest men ever'?
GWRtom
Member
Perhaps an overstatement. But without his Rifle Vietnam,Cuba,China,Various African republics. would never have seen freedom from from corrupt leaders. And in the case of Vietnam French oppression.
Granted a lot of these countries aren't a lot better these days.
Edited My OP To reflect this.
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Chapeltom
Established Member
Thanking a man for inventing one of the biggest killers in the world, 
Temple Meads
Established Member
Certainly a divisive figure, but despite being by and large anti-war* I can certainly appreciate his invention and the effect it had. RIP.
*There are certain circumstances in which I believe war/violence to be the best action, if a regrettable one.
*There are certain circumstances in which I believe war/violence to be the best action, if a regrettable one.
David Barrett
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Thanking a man for inventing one of the biggest killers in the world,
He always contended that he was the designer, the responsibility for the gun's use rested firmly with the Politicians. He did, he said, sleep well at night.
GWRtom
Member
Thanking a man for inventing one of the biggest killers in the world,
In other words you have no idea what your talking about.
Fire arms do not kill people.
Other people do.
And he was right.
"Blame the Nazi Germans for making me become a gun designer ... I always wanted to construct agriculture machinery." -Mikhail Kalashnikov
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Well, the biggest killer in most of the countries it has been used in has been the politicians in charge.
GWRtom
Member
True. And of course the leaders of the various terrorist organizations who have used his invention.
Yeah and who did the terrorists buy the guns off? They weren't all made illegally in little terrorist factories. In fact hardly any of them were. And who trained the terrorists? Who trained Bin Laden?
Does the railway community here have a habit of glorifying 'criminals'?
Sure Kalashnikov (sic) was no 'criminal', but he is responsible for inventing one of the most deadliest of rifles in the world. That does not justify, to me, creating a memorial thread.
Sure Kalashnikov (sic) was no 'criminal', but he is responsible for inventing one of the most deadliest of rifles in the world. That does not justify, to me, creating a memorial thread.
GWRtom
Member
Are you really that uneducated and ignorant of history?
Mikhail Kalashnikov Did no wrong. In 1943 he was given the task of designing a automatic rifle to match the Stg 44 as their was still a chance of Germany changing the course of the war against the allies and the Comintern. Not only that but the Soviet union faced constant aggression from the imperialist west during 1946-1952.
He was a patriot defending his country. Not a criminal.
His rifle has started more revolutions and over thrown more dictators then any other weapon in history.
Do you blame Einstein for the Nuclear bomb? John Browning for his designs? Eugene stoner for the M16?
He can't be blamed for how his weapon was used in fact he had no say what so ever nor did he receive a penny for his work un till just a few years a go.
In fact one of his biggest regret was how the AK47 was copied and mass produced in the millions by the Chinese and others causing untold death and casualties around the world. May he rest in peace.
The man was a Genius. If you can't respect genius then that's a pretty pathetic.
What! Religion and Politics have killed far more people throughout the ages than the AK47.
Chapeltom
Established Member
I have no idea what I'm talking about, right. :roll: I have read about the impact of Kalashnikov. I'm not disputing he was a man of peace and no, firearms do not kill people, its people who kill people. This man resented his own invention.
But the point I'm making I think it slightly sad, that you think its appropriate to put an RIP thread up for a man who invented a weapon that has killed thousands if not millions of people.
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No, just someone who has resented what he offered the world. I don't think even history is that stupid to oversee that, and I thank you for not trying to demean my opinion further as to suggest I'm oblivious to the fact he was much more than the AK47. You obviously think so, hence your amusing attempts to forgive him retrospectively.
Yeah, they managed for centuries before the AK47 as designed with far more elaborate and horrible methods. The AK47 didn't even speed things up that much since it is not very accurate and the nutters in charge came up with Zyklon B and nuclear weapons not long after.
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Oh and did you know that Chemotherapy came about thanks to mustard gas? If it wasn't for politicians trying to kill people with science perhaps people like Kalashnikov could be funded to do more creative things.
Ah, so all of those well respected scientists who created much more than nuclear weapons are now nutters?
The irony meter in this thread has just broken the scale.
Like I just said the person who invented Mustard Gas has saved thousands of lives. The politicians who used it to kill thousands of people were in the wrong.
And the 'nutters' that invented nuclear weapons (and a whole lot more besides, much of which you rely on) have arguably saved billions.
I admit to wording that badly but you clearly don't know what Irony is.
Given the amount of guff so far in this thread, please enlighten me.
Some form of laundry?
No and what I said was about as ironic as the Alanis Morisette song called Ironic in which nothing she said was actually ironic. By all means call me on something I made a gaff about, but don't then get the reason wrong, you make yourself look as daft as me.
Actually, the fact that nothing she sang about was Ironic was probably Ironic.
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Hey mate, I'm off out shortly for a cheeky couple of pints but I just wanted to say I know we obviously have a slight difference of opinion but I respect that and I wish you and yours all the very best. Take care and don't do anything I wouldn't, ha ha.
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And the same from here, we cannot always agree. All the best.
Monty
Established Member
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The man designed a rifle to defend his country from Nazi's not to become a symbol of terror and oppression it is not his fault that the Soviet Union exported it in huge quantities for political and strategic purposes. While not a hero by any means it cannot be denied he is worthy of note for his invention was brilliantly designed, he is not however a murderer and war criminal as some people like to paint him as.
GWRtom
Member
deltic1989
Established Member
I disagree that one should hold malice against Mikhail Kalashnikov he mearly designed the weapon. He didn't sell it to terrorists, he didn't train them to use it, he didn't pull the trigger and kill untold millions of people. If we were to hold malace against him then we may as well go the whole hog and condemn Karl Benz for inventing the Motor Car which has also caused millions of deaths. Ok, granted it may not be quite in the same league but you get the point I am trying to make.
The AK-47 is one of the most influential weapons of the 20th and 21st centuries not just because it has been in continuous production somewhere in the world since 1947, but because of it's simplicity, ease of maintenance, that it is virtually indestructible, and as mentioned it has been used by rebel forces to overthrow some of the most vicious tyrants of living memory.
They may not be very accurate (this is mostly down to the recoil they have a tendancy to recoil upwards to the left, but as long as you keep your bursts to about 4 rounds you should be good.) but they are cheap to manufacture in large numbers, and easy to keep going. I have used an AK-47 once and it is so easy to strip down and clean that I had the knack within 20 mins (after never having seen a real one before in my life). They can be submerged in water, buried and left uncleaned for weeks and still operate normally.
The AK-47 and it's many variants are formidable weapons,and Mikhail Kalashnikov achieved all the aims that he set out to when he designed the weapon and its length of time in production serves to prove how sturdy the design is.
Whatever the moral objections I feel that he deserves to be remembered, for what he achieved, not for what his design was subsequently used for.
There have been men that have designed far worse weapons and are still remembered with respect, let us do the same for Mikhail Kalashnikov.
RIP Mr Kalashnikov. You certainly will not be forgotten.
The AK-47 is one of the most influential weapons of the 20th and 21st centuries not just because it has been in continuous production somewhere in the world since 1947, but because of it's simplicity, ease of maintenance, that it is virtually indestructible, and as mentioned it has been used by rebel forces to overthrow some of the most vicious tyrants of living memory.
They may not be very accurate (this is mostly down to the recoil they have a tendancy to recoil upwards to the left, but as long as you keep your bursts to about 4 rounds you should be good.) but they are cheap to manufacture in large numbers, and easy to keep going. I have used an AK-47 once and it is so easy to strip down and clean that I had the knack within 20 mins (after never having seen a real one before in my life). They can be submerged in water, buried and left uncleaned for weeks and still operate normally.
The AK-47 and it's many variants are formidable weapons,and Mikhail Kalashnikov achieved all the aims that he set out to when he designed the weapon and its length of time in production serves to prove how sturdy the design is.
Whatever the moral objections I feel that he deserves to be remembered, for what he achieved, not for what his design was subsequently used for.
There have been men that have designed far worse weapons and are still remembered with respect, let us do the same for Mikhail Kalashnikov.
RIP Mr Kalashnikov. You certainly will not be forgotten.
bb21
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What about Marie Curie? How about Alfred Nobel?
No, but he did contribute to the world in the worst way possible; the creation of something that lead to one becoming a 'murderer' or a 'war criminal. It is therefore somewhat ironic that you apologists of him should call his invention 'brilliantly designed' yet state categorically that it wasn't meant to become a 'symbol of terror and oppression'. Since when is a gun not a 'symbol of terror'?
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Or Robert Oppenheimer perhaps? Nobel: produced armaments for the Crimean War, Oppenheimer: the atom bomb and the Manhattan project, Marie Curie; pioneered pitchblende, a derivative of uranium. All three above produced armaments for nations knowing full well the results of their inventions and the effect their respective inventions would have on world events. The insinuation here is that Kalashnikov's invention was somehow steeped in peace and he wasn't to know that his weapon would somehow be used in some sort of warfare and for that he shouldn't be blamed. That is historical naivety and shows an elementary lack of understanding of historic events.They were all geniuses, but since when was a 'genius' exclusively a positive thing?
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