Quirky or quaint practices on buses in the past

[JKP]

I believe there was a bus turntable at the former Eastern station in St. Helier, Jersey.

I think you are correct. I have a distant memory of seeing a photo of a green and white single deck Reading bodied bus on it.

 

[PeterC]

I think you are correct. I have a distant memory of seeing a photo of a green and white single deck Reading bodied bus on it.

I remember reading about it in Buses Illustrated when I was 14 or 15 so mid 60s.

 

[MotCO]

Since you've mentioned it, this brought back memories of many evenings of overtime 'guarding' buses in Manchester in the 1980s, having done a day in the schedules office earlier (except Saturdays, of course). As most boarding passengers reasonably expected to pay the driver, his repeated comment of 'There's a guard on' was not immediately understood by many, particularly students on the Wilmslow Road corridor.

It also highlights two other quirks of Manchester at the time. First, allowing office staff to drive and conduct buses for overtime on what were normally pay-as-you-board services. This was only permitted at some Manchester garages, and none of the surrounding districts would allow it. I don't know how common this was in the wider industry, although I was certainly asked if I was prepared to go conducting during an (obviously unsuccessful) 1980 interview for a traffic trainee post with Ribble .

Secondly, the remaining handful of conductors who had sufficient length of service not to be committed to go driving had to be found work. In addition to night services, most garages had a short daytime rota to accommodate them, even when all routes were nominally pay-as-you-board. Princess Road's four week rota was centred around working the 2300 252 to Partington, which was deemed unsafe for one-person operation. Northenden took a different approach - the handful of two-man* crews simply worked their way round the main one-person rota.

* - accurate, as Northenden had no female road staff at the time.

I seem to remember Green Line buses used to do a local rota in their home town before setting off on their cross London duties. Whether this means a crewed bus would perform on a rota that was otherwise one-person operated or vice versa, I do not know.

 

[PeterC]

I seem to remember Green Line buses used to do a local rota in their home town before setting off on their cross London duties. Whether this means a crewed bus would perform on a rota that was otherwise one-person operated or vice versa, I do not know.

How far back are you going? Single deck services went OPO fairly early on. Crew operation in my time was all rear entrance double deckers.

 

[RT4038]

How far back are you going? Single deck services went OPO fairly early on. Crew operation in my time was all rear entrance double deckers.

I think this depended very much where you were. Whilst all half cab buses (either rear or nearly at the front loading) could only be crew worked on stage carriage services, front loading vehicles could be worked by either one man/person or a crew. In order to balance up the duty schedule, there was crew operation of some single deck (and indeed front entrance double deck) worked trips right up to the early 80s, where I worked. I know London Transport Country buses/London Country also practised this. Some places - Hants and Dorset and Northampton Corporation to my knowledge, strictly kept crews working on half cabs, save in emergency.

 

[jammy36]

I believe there was a bus turntable at the former Eastern station in St. Helier, Jersey.

Pearce's Motors of Polperro made use of a bus turntable to manoeuvre their vehicles into their garage which was located on Polperro's (actually quite small) 'Big Green'. There is now a Turntable Pizzeria on Big Green!

 

[Man of Kent]

I note some sources incorrectly claiming that there were four trolleybus turntables in the UK

Wolverhampton had two, situated in depots at Bilston and Sedgeley. There is a picture of one here: https://www.sct61.org.uk/gallery/trolleys/wv408

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Jan 2026 ==

Whilst all half cab buses (either rear or nearly at the front loading) could only be crew worked on stage carriage services, front loading vehicles could be worked by either one man/person or a crew.

Some operators did have one-man-operated half cabs, including Titans at Brighton Corporation and Regents at East Kent (in the latter case, in addition to the full front versions). However, East Kent's later gravitated to contracts rather than stage carriage services.

 

[RT4038]

Some operators did have one-man-operated half cabs, including Titans at Brighton Corporation and Regents at East Kent (in the latter case, in addition to the full front versions). However, East Kent's later gravitated to contracts rather than stage carriage services.

City of Oxford also had some, but they were relegated to peak period trips only. Northern General did a couple of conversions too. I think it would be true to say that they were pretty universally unpopular with drivers, but did a job of ekeing out a bit more time on vehicles that would otherwise have gone to scrap before their expected lifespan end. (There were quite a few with various undertakings in the Cape Province of South Africa, and in Hong Kong, too...... )

 

[Open top 80]

Northern General did have a few converted double deckers

 

[Brightonboy]

Wolverhampton had two, situated in depots at Bilston and Sedgeley. There is a picture of one here: https://www.sct61.org.uk/gallery/trolleys/wv408

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Jan 2026 ==


Some operators did have one-man-operated half cabs, including Titans at Brighton Corporation and Regents at East Kent (in the latter case, in addition to the full front versions). However, East Kent's later gravitated to contracts rather than stage carriage services.

It is claimed that Brighton Corporation were the first to operate OMO half cabs and I grew up using them regularly. With hindsight, they must have been incredibly awkward for the drivers, especially on busy routes. I wonder if any of them developed medical issues from the constant turning and working the ticket machine positioned by their left shoulder.

 

[izvor]

I seem to remember Green Line buses used to do a local rota in their home town before setting off on their cross London duties. Whether this means a crewed bus would perform on a rota that was otherwise one-person operated or vice versa, I do not know.

You are correct, a small piece of bus work before a coach duty was quite common in crew Green Line days, and lasted into OMO/OPO and London Country days. In most cases I believe the crew used their coach for this, as the whole purpose was to utilise a vehicle that would otherwise not be required until, say, 0830 or 0900. So you might have seen a crew operated Green Line RF on an otherwise RT bus route, often a duplicate or short working.

Union agreements forbade bus work after a coach duty. This made sense in practical terms, as (a) coach vehicles were out until late in the evening and (b) late running on the coach duty might have made the bus trip unreliable, or put the crew over hours regulations etc.

 

[Old Walter]

Great posts here, some real gold - to add my appreciation : )

Something which would be definitely be seen as quirky now - I recall seeing a post somewhere on the web which indicates that Leyland Nationals didn’t have self-centering steering wheels as of new, despite cars of the time having had this for a while. Were these always kept in this condition without modification, and were similar aged vehicles such as the VR similar in operation?

As a younger bus enthusiast I had never thought about it but as a car driver now this would seem very odd, ditto to the National gear selector being on the right hand side and the VR twisty indicator….

From memory the VR indicator worked like an egg timer so wasn’t roped in with the wheel at all, so this would make sense…..

 

[Leyland Bus]

Great posts here, some real gold - to add my appreciation : )

Something which would be definitely be seen as quirky now - I recall seeing a post somewhere on the web which indicates that Leyland Nationals didn’t have self-centering steering wheels as of new, despite cars of the time having had this for a while. Were these always kept in this condition without modification, and were similar aged vehicles such as the VR similar in operation?

As a younger bus enthusiast I had never thought about it but as a car driver now this would seem very odd, ditto to the National gear selector being on the right hand side and the VR twisty indicator….

From memory the VR indicator worked like an egg timer so wasn’t roped in with the wheel at all, so this would make sense…..

I know early Nationals had no anti roll bars so would really lean in to corners and roundabouts. This in turn caused trouble as Nationals had magnetic fuel caps, the roll and subsequent serge of diesel caused the caps to pop open, with a nice rush of diesel spilling allover the road...

 

[Statto]

When buses were early heading in to the terminus, drivers would wait at the last stop before departing to the terminus, nowadays drivers can't wait to start the layover regardless if the bus is early or not.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

When buses were early heading in to the terminus, drivers would wait at the last stop before departing to the terminus, nowadays drivers can't wait to start the layover regardless if the bus is early or not.

I suppose it depends on how much usage there is boarding at the last stop, but for passengers already on the bus, surely an early arrival at the terminus is a benefit? Less time on the bus, more time to get on with your day.

 

[341o2]

Some more regarding the former South Lancs trolleybuses.

Mr W Pedia mentions one I have not heard of before, that when poles were weakened by corrosion, wires were attatched to a convenient tree branch.
The SLT system served a series of villiages, with rural sections in between, and trolleybuses would stop for passengers "anywhere safe to do so"
At Platt Bridge, there was Templeton Rd, which was previously a stretch of reserved tramway, becoming a private road. Used by SLT trolleybuses, St Helens trolleybuses on the joint route to Atherton and private access.
Four SLT trolleybuses were owned by Bolton Corporation, and bore SLT livery and numbers. They operated from SLT depots, their only visit to Bolton Corporation premises was following their withdrawal to be scrapped.
Being the nearest system to Leyland, from time to time other trolleybuses were tested on the system, sometimes being little more than a chassis
On the Bolton and Farnworth routes, through fares or tickets were not issued, passengers had to purchase a secong ticket at Four Lane Ends or Swinton respectively.
Trolleybuses on short or special workings were known as Jiggers

In the early days of trolleybuses, other methods of current collection were used, for example the Cedes Stoll, where the wires acted as rails upon which ran a four wheeled trolley.
It was connected to the bus by a flexible cable, there was only one pair of wires, and when buses met, the cables were unplugged and exchanged, Another early system was the Lloyd - Kohler, or Bremen, where the wires were hung vertically,

Image from Google, Crich tramway museum, depicting two Cedes Stoll trolleybuses

 

[NotDeadYet]

There was a time in the mid 1970s when the Oxford-Swindon bus route was operated jointly by City of Oxford Motor Services & Bristol Omnibus. Each company accepted the other's Day and Return tickets. Oxford sold their bargain day ticket (Clearway) for 99p which was cheaper than many return fares on the route and certainly cheaper than the Bristol Omnibus £1.40 Day Out ticket.

At Faringdon, roughly half way between Swindon & Oxford, passengers figured out that the Clearway ticket was cheaper than the return fare to Oxford. Trouble was, the popular 08:57 bus to Oxford was operated by Bristol Omnibus. So a strange ritual ensued whereby a long queue of passengers formed for the first City of Oxford bus of the day to Swindon (timed to depart at 08:52, a few minutes before the bus heading to Oxford) and many passengers boarded the bus, purchased a Clearway ticket, got off the bus and re-queued for the Bristols Omnibus service heading in the opposite direction.

At one point the queuing passengers were filmed for a spot on the regional tv news show. I guess this may have embarrassed the operators into regularising the situation because it was subsequently agreed that, on this route only, Bristol Omnibus could sell the 99p Clearway ticket.

As a teenage bus enthusiast I was interested in the Clearway ticket for exploring Oxfordshire rather than a shopping trip to Oxford. I had no trouble buying the 99p ticket on a Bristol bus but quickly discovered that not all drivers on other City of Oxford routes seemed to be aware that a Clearway ticket might be issued on Bristol Omnibus ticket stock. The driver I encountered was certain that I had a Bristol Day Out ticket and could not use it around Oxfordshire. I insisted that he was wrong, that Bristol day tickets were priced at £1.40, but he was not having it so I reluctantly paid another 99p and later in the day made my way to the City of Oxfords Head Office on the Cowley Road to demand a refund.

I vividly remember being taken from reception to a manager's office, offered a cup of tea and then a secretary appeared with a big key to the office safe. The safe housed a biscuit tin which in turn contained a small collection of coins - there was just about enough to refund me my 99p. It was something of a surprise to the teenage me as I had assumed that safes would be filled with fat bundles of £10 notes if not gold bullion.

An assistant came into the office and there was a brief discussion about whether to put the driver on a disciplinary but they settled for an informal warning. I was then given a short lecture that I could have saved everyone a lot of trouble if I had stuck to my guns and refused to take 'no' for an answer - I am still not convinced that would have been a successful strategy.


Another quirk from the same period in Oxford was the use of pavement conductors on busy Saturdays (and perhaps at other times). Conductors would work the busy bus queues along Cornmarket Street issuing tickets on non-standard pink ticket stock. Passengers could then board the OPO buses quickly by simply waving their pink tickets at the driver.

 

[MotCO]

I know early Nationals had no anti roll bars so would really lean in to corners and roundabouts. This in turn caused trouble as Nationals had magnetic fuel caps, the roll and subsequent serge of diesel caused the caps to pop open, with a nice rush of diesel spilling allover the road...

Whoever thought that magnetic caps were a good idea? Surely a cap on a chain would serve much better.

 

[Leyland Bus]

Whoever thought that magnetic caps were a good idea? Surely a cap on a chain would serve much better.

Probably a time saver in theory, just lift and shove the nozzle in...

 

[PeterC]

Another quirk from the same period in Oxford was the use of pavement conductors on busy Saturdays (and perhaps at other times). Conductors would work the busy bus queues along Cornmarket Street issuing tickets on non-standard pink ticket stock. Passengers could then board the OPO buses quickly by simply waving their pink tickets at the driver.

They had them at Thornhill P&R before Christmas issuing "free" travel tickets against parking receipts.

 

[Roger1973]

I seem to remember Green Line buses used to do a local rota in their home town before setting off on their cross London duties. Whether this means a crewed bus would perform on a rota that was otherwise one-person operated or vice versa, I do not know.

I think this depended very much where you were. Whilst all half cab buses (either rear or nearly at the front loading) could only be crew worked on stage carriage services, front loading vehicles could be worked by either one man/person or a crew. In order to balance up the duty schedule, there was crew operation of some single deck (and indeed front entrance double deck) worked trips right up to the early 80s, where I worked. I know London Transport Country buses/London Country also practised this. Some places - Hants and Dorset and Northampton Corporation to my knowledge, strictly kept crews working on half cabs, save in emergency.

Yes - think it depended whether the 'coach' was doing one short journey before going on to Green Line work, in which case (from what I'm aware) the LT / LCBS agreement allowed a Green Line crew (or driver) to do some bus work before going on to Green Line work - or whether the coach did a full 'half' on local services - in which case presume it was a bus driver (or crew) - and LC had a few odd journeys or 'halves' worked by crews with OPO-able buses, presumably on the basis it fitted in to a slack crew duty schedule better than an OPO duty schedule that didn't have any slack.

And then there were odd crew operated (with RT or Routemaster buses) journeys on otherwise OPO routes, either where the capacity was needed or possibly again because the choice was fit a journey in to a crew duty at minimal cost (bearing in mind crews were on guaranteed number of hours' work a day or week) or to cost an extra OPO duty.

And there were other oddities on LC - a spare crew might cover an OPO duty, and I understand that on the 'farebox' routes, if no farebox fitted bus was available, the journey could be crew worked but not 'conventional OPO'.

When buses were early heading in to the terminus, drivers would wait at the last stop before departing to the terminus, nowadays drivers can't wait to start the layover regardless if the bus is early or not.

I suppose it depends on how much usage there is boarding at the last stop, but for passengers already on the bus, surely an early arrival at the terminus is a benefit? Less time on the bus, more time to get on with your day.

At some operators, at one time, a driver / crew would get 'booked' for arriving too early at the terminus.

Alternatively, some drivers / crews would deliberately lose a bit of time in order to arrive late enough to get overtime.

Another quirk from the same period in Oxford was the use of pavement conductors on busy Saturdays (and perhaps at other times). Conductors would work the busy bus queues along Cornmarket Street issuing tickets on non-standard pink ticket stock. Passengers could then board the OPO buses quickly by simply waving their pink tickets at the driver.

I think it was in part due to a no compulsory redundancy agreement when services went OPO

They had them at Thornhill P&R before Christmas issuing "free" travel tickets against parking receipts.

I doubt if Oxford have any permanent conductors still (expect any conductor who was displaced by OPO conversions would have passed retirement age by now) but it's not all that unusual for special events. Reading Buses have (or have had) staff out (not sure if they are spare drivers, supervisors, office staff or what) issuing tickets at roadside for Reading Festival bus services and on the University service at the start of the academic year. I have seen mention somewhere of Uno doing likewise at Luton with their X10 service to Hatfield.

I think London Transport did it a few times - I've seen pictures (think from the 1940s / 50s) of conductors assisting with queues at London Bridge in the morning peak. And think it was tried in one or two places in the late 70s - have seen photographs of a conductor or two in Woolwich town centre - think they were issued with coloured ticket rolls (pink?) so it would be obvious to drivers that the ticket they were being presented had been issued by one of them.

At a tangent from this, some operators used to send spare conductors out to assist on buses (or trams) in service at peak hours on the busiest sections. I've heard the term 'snatchers' for this, but like most things, it probably varied from one operator to another.

I've heard a story about somewhere this was done, and one 'snatcher' got some compliments to management for being very keen. On further investigation, they realised this particular conductor had been sacked not long ago, and had kept some uniform and managed to acquire a ticket machine...

 

[Dwarfer1979]

When buses were early heading in to the terminus, drivers would wait at the last stop before departing to the terminus, nowadays drivers can't wait to start the layover regardless if the bus is early or not.

That tended to happen where an inspector was known to be on site at the terminus (or possibly was regularly seen at the terminus) and crews leaving the terminus would often warn drivers coming the other way to wait. I'm not sure if it was company management being stricter or different monitoring criteria from government departments but these days we are more forgiving of early arrival at the terminus as long as you don't pass the previous timing point early though the TCs have started taking a dim view of too much padding at the end of the trip in recent years (possibly facilitated by the view that modern tracking systems & reliability data means operators should have a better view of actual mid-point running times than they could with random single trip assesment).

 

[MotCO]

I think London Transport did it a few times - I've seen pictures (think from the 1940s / 50s) of conductors assisting with queues at London Bridge in the morning peak. And think it was tried in one or two places in the late 70s - have seen photographs of a conductor or two in Woolwich town centre - think they were issued with coloured ticket rolls (pink?) so it would be obvious to drivers that the ticket they were being presented had been issued by one of them.

Not really London Transport, but London General used to employ kerbside ticket issuers for services such as the Chelsea Flower Show, using buses from the Commercial Fleet.

 

[Chutters 73]

Hants & Dorset only used even numbers for its fleet numbers until 1939. I can only assume it was a bid to make the fleet look bigger!

Red & White had a quirky fleet numbering system (that survived into National Welsh days) insofar as buses carried a sequential number that started with one followed by the last two digits of the year so the first bus delivered in 1963 was 163 then 263 etc. The fleetnumber also had an alphabetic prefix to signify vehicle type - these were more generic than the class types used by LT. I’m sure someone can shed more light on their significance.

Red & White / National Welsh prefixes…

U - Underfloor engined bus (Leopard, Bristol MW)
UC - Underfloor engined coach
UD - Underfloor dual-purpose vehicle.
XC - a Leyland Tiger with a Duple Carribean. (Taller than a Duple Laser)

R - Rear engine (Bristol RE)
RC - Bristol RE coach
RD - Bristol RE dual purpose
RS - a short Bristol RE

N - a 11.3m Leyland National
ND - a DP National
NS - a 10.3m National

LR - a low height Bristol VR (ECW) 13’5” overall height.
HR - a standard height VR (ECW) or an Olympian (ECW)
XR - a VR with MCW or Alexander bodywork (Xtra high…)
LD - a low height VR with high backed seats used on limited stop routes.

MD - A dual purpose Bristol LH

T - Towing vehicle

There might have been others.

There was a general re-numbering in 1983 where the year was ditched and some sort of consecutive numbering used.U*11xx and U*12xx (e.g. UD1153, UC1215) R*13xx, ND and NS had 14xx, N1501 to N1654, LR17xx, HR18xx and XR19xx.

The prefixes started to disappear around 1989-1990.

 

[Mark L]

Red & White / National Welsh prefixes…

U - Underfloor engined bus (Leopard, Bristol MW)
UC - Underfloor engined coach
UD - Underfloor dual-purpose vehicle.
XC - a Leyland Tiger with a Duple Carribean. (Taller than a Duple Laser)

R - Rear engine (Bristol RE)
RC - Bristol RE coach
RD - Bristol RE dual purpose
RS - a short Bristol RE

N - a 11.3m Leyland National
ND - a DP National
NS - a 10.3m National

LR - a low height Bristol VR (ECW) 13’5” overall height.
HR - a standard height VR (ECW) or an Olympian (ECW)
XR - a VR with MCW or Alexander bodywork (Xtra high…)
LD - a low height VR with high backed seats used on limited stop routes.

MD - A dual purpose Bristol LH

T - Towing vehicle

There might have been others.

There was a general re-numbering in 1983 where the year was ditched and some sort of consecutive numbering used.U*11xx and U*12xx (e.g. UD1153, UC1215) R*13xx, ND and NS had 14xx, N1501 to N1654, LR17xx, HR18xx and XR19xx.

The prefixes started to disappear around 1989-1990.

Thanks! The Lodekkas all had L prefixes which I’m guessing simply signified “low height” (or perhaps low bridge even though that’s technically incorrect) and that the LR prefix on VRs denoted a low height rear engined bus.

 

[Statto]

I'm looking at a timetable from 1982, the 7/8 New Brighton - Newton, & journey's are timed to take the same time regardless of time of day & day of the week they operate on, which is bizarre as no allowance is made for lighter traffic in the Evenings, Saturday mornings & Sundays, this was most timetables from that era, were as nowadays timetables are set (i know not always) with traffic in mind, like 15 minutes New Brighton to Liscard on the 7, the current 414/432 take 10 minutes.

Wirral 7 001182.pdf

drive.google.com

It's often why drivers were early at the last stop before the terminus, & on route.

 

[Chutters 73]

Thanks! The Lodekkas all had L prefixes which I’m guessing simply signified “low height” (or perhaps low bridge even though that’s technically incorrect) and that the LR prefix on VRs denoted a low height rear engined bus.

There were some others too when the three Perkins V8 Dennis’ (from Taff Ely) were very briefly U, Inter Valley Link’s lovely Northern Counties VR’s were numbered in the HR range without the prefix (IVL’s lovely TL2 11m Olympians disappeared) and Merthyr’s Lynxes were at Cwmbran very briefly (marginally less awful on the X30 than the National 2’s!). I think these all arrived and departed over the summer of 89.

 

[Statto]

Crosville had a 3 digit prefix then fleet number which was

First alpha character type of vehicle
Second alpha character, code for manufacturer or type of chassis
Third alpha character was manufacturer of the engine
Then fleet number

For example, ENL 896 was, Dual Purpose (E) Leyland National (N) Leyland, engine (L), 896 fleet number.

Here's more

Crosville - Fleet Numbering

There were four methods used by Crosville to identify vehicles:-

www.crosville.org

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Crosville had a 3 digit prefix then fleet number which was

First alpha character type of vehicle
Second alpha character, code for manufacturer or type of chassis
Third alpha character was manufacturer of the engine
Then fleet number

For example, ENL 896 was, Dual Purpose (E) Leyland National (N) Leyland, engine (L), 896 fleet number.

Here's more

Crosville - Fleet Numbering

There were four methods used by Crosville to identify vehicles:-

www.crosville.org

Both United Automobile and West Yorkshire Road Car had alpha numeric systems until the 1960s when new fangled computers meant they moved to purely numeric. West Yorkshire, for instance, had a SUG (Single Underfloor Gardner) or CRG (Coach Rear Gardner).

Eastern Scottish also had an alpha numeric system, plus an end letter to denote allocation. I'll let @DunsBus have a go at explaining them all!

 

[PG]

Something which would be definitely be seen as quirky now - I recall seeing a post somewhere on the web which indicates that Leyland Nationals didn’t have self-centering steering wheels as of new, despite cars of the time having had this for a while. Were these always kept in this condition without modification, and were similar aged vehicles such as the VR similar in operation?

I was warned about this quirk when I first encountered Leyland Nationals and although you quickly got used to it, it did make you sit up and take notice especially when all other types in the fleet had 'normal' steering characteristics. Drivers refered to it as "wind-on, wind-off", that being wind as in what you do with a watch or clock. Seemed unique to Nationals, neither Leopards or Atlanteans were like that, and to the best of my knowledge it wasn't ever modified.

ditto to the National gear selector being on the right hand side

Later AN68 Atlanteans also featured a right hand side gear selector (as did Olympians and Tigers) which I personally preferred.