Quirky or quaint practices on buses in the past

[daodao]

In my experience there are not "double deck routes" and "single deck routes", though some routes are mostly double-deck and others mostly single-deck. Still others are a complete mix.

One cannot generalise, as it depends on the operator and the depot allocation.

In Eastern Cheshire, nearly all buses are single deck, particularly since D&G took over most scheduled services. Previously, Arriva did have a few double deck buses, but one came to grief at a low bridge close to Macclesfield Station a few years ago.

In the Altrincham area, Metroline (on behalf of the Bee Network) only operate single deck buses from their Wythenshawe garage, as did Arriva before them. Double deck buses are used on schools services, and also route 11 operated by Stagecoach.

Frankly, few routes, except high frequency ones in major conurbations, now warrant the use of double deck buses, and they are a risk/liability in places with low bridges.

 

[nw1]

Frankly, few routes, except high frequency ones in major conurbations, now warrant the use of double deck buses, and they are a risk/liability in places with low bridges.

Depends what you call a major conurbation. Not a PTE area, but certainly a number of routes out of Southampton warrant double-deckers at certain times of the day or week.

 

[PeterC]

One curiosity of the several historic independent companies serving the South Somerset / Yeovil area was that not one used route numbers.
Buses showed just destination only
Companies affected included
Safeway
Hutchings & Cornelius
Pearce, Darch & Wilcox
Wakes
Brutonian
Bere Regis
Yeovilian (Kingston Coaches)

I remember Western Welsh services passing my aunt's house didn't display route numbers but they were found on the timetable.

I think that quite a few small independents with only one or two routes didn't bother with numbers.

 

[RT4038]

One cannot generalise, as it depends on the operator and the depot allocation.

In Eastern Cheshire, nearly all buses are single deck, particularly since D&G took over most scheduled services. Previously, Arriva did have a few double deck buses, but one came to grief at a low bridge close to Macclesfield Station a few years ago.

In the Altrincham area, Metroline (on behalf of the Bee Network) only operate single deck buses from their Wythenshawe garage, as did Arriva before them. Double deck buses are used on schools services, and also route 11 operated by Stagecoach.

Frankly, few routes, except high frequency ones in major conurbations, now warrant the use of double deck buses, and they are a risk/liability in places with low bridges.

In my county of residence, no routes warrant the use of double deck buses, except the trips carrying schoolchildren and college/Uni students. As they annoyingly all want to travel at the same time, often in the same bus, there is a high double deck requirement, with the double deckers travelling around at a maximum 25% loaded at other times.

 

[daodao]

Another (unique?) quirk regarding service number suffixes was Manchester City Transport, in pre-PTE days.

It's always been quite usual for bus operators to add letters A, B, C ... to their service numbers to show route variations, short workings and the like.

In MCT days, the only letter available on Manchester bus blinds was a "X" suffix.

Anywhere else in Britain, an X would most likely indicate some sort of limited stop or express service. But in Manchester, "X" meant anything a bit different to the normal route. It might mean Limited Stops. Or it might mean a short working, or a works service, or football special. Or a Night Service, which sometimes followed slightly different routes to the daytime equivalent and charged double fares.

When the Selnec / GMT 'Standard' vehicles were first developed, these followed historic Manchester practice and the number blinds had a X suffix, but no other letters available. Even though some of the municipal services absorbed into Selnec still used A, B etc at the time. Presumably the new Standard vehicles were not allocated to these routes.

I don't think the X suffixes were used in anger following a county-wide re-numbering of services into a consistent series in the 1970s, although GMT Standard buses seemed to be delivered with X on the blinds long after this was necessary.

My recollection was that a small 'x' was used as a suffix, rather than a capital 'X', by Manchester Corporation Transport. The main use was for extra journeys that did not run the full route, often rush hour/works/schools extras. I have a particular memory of catching a route 41x bus regularly from Old Hall Lane to Southern Cemetery en route home from secondary school in the mid 1960s. This extra service was generally operated by one of the older late 1940s vehicles (Crossley/Leyland) built as tram replacement buses.

 

[Mark L]

One curiosity of the several historic independent companies serving the South Somerset / Yeovil area was that not one used route numbers.
Buses showed just destination only
Companies affected included
Safeway
Hutchings & Cornelius
Pearce, Darch & Wilcox
Wakes
Brutonian
Bere Regis
Yeovilian (Kingston Coaches)

A number of independent operators didn't use route numbers - Delaine only introduced them in 1992. Some larger operators, particualy municpals, also saw little need for them. Given that many networks were basically radial from the town centre it probably didn't matter much at the time.

 

[nw1]

In my county of residence, no routes warrant the use of double deck buses, except the trips carrying schoolchildren and college/Uni students. As they annoyingly all want to travel at the same time, often in the same bus, there is a high double deck requirement, with the double deckers travelling around at a maximum 25% loaded at other times.

Well, it does mean you have a high chance of grabbing one of the front seats on the top deck if that's your thing!

To be fair, it has always been thus - I remember travelling on lightly-loaded double-deckers in the Alder Valley Hindhead area in the late 80s during the middle of the day (obviously during half-term or holidays). They inevitably wound up on a school or college service later - indeed a good 5 or 6 of Hindhead's 9 or so decker duties proceeded to Alton College to form simultaneous departures to various parts of East Hampshire at 1625. (The other deckers were required for Midhurst or Haslemere schools, but the out-of-Guildford evening peak on the Hindhead routes was generally single-deckers by then with one exception which came off one of the school runs).

With my enthusiast hat on I once travelled to Alton College to observe the large number of simultaneous departures (I was in sixth-form myself at the time, though not at the college, so "fit in" with the crowd - but had a different half-term hence was free that day) and caught one of the college services which was heading in the general direction of home. They were all open to the public, for point of clarification.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Dec 2025 ==

A number of independent operators didn't use route numbers - Delaine only introduced them in 1992. Some larger operators, particualy municpals, also saw little need for them. Given that many networks were basically radial from the town centre it probably didn't matter much at the time.

Safeguard partly didn't use them in Guildford. In 1984 the Park Barn routes were A and B, but the Bellfields-District Hospital town service (same route as the Alder Valley 229 and integrated with it) had no route number. In the Alder Valley timetable it was just shown as "SG" but this was not a route code, it was just short for Safeguard.

Post April 1985 with the Guildford area revisions they took on part of the G3, while the Park Barn routes became the G4 and G5.

 

[Man of Kent]

The discussion about use or otherwise of route numbers reminds me that many Scottish Bus Group timetable books were not arranged in route number order, but consisted of numbered tables that generally bore no resemblance to the route numbers that they featured. It was necessary to check an index of route numbers to find which table it featured in.

 

[Statto]

The discussion about use or otherwise of route numbers reminds me that many Scottish Bus Group timetable books were not arranged in route number order, but consisted of numbered tables that generally bore no resemblance to the route numbers that they featured. It was necessary to check an index of route numbers to find which table it featured in.

Ribble, Lancashire County Council (LCC) & Cheshire County Council (CCC) all had similar format for there timetables, whilst Ribble & LCC was straight forward from 1 onwards, CCC was a bit more weird, as CCC went with area number first then a dot then leaflet number for example if you wanted a timetable for Chester - Birkenhead C1 to C5 it was leaflet number 6.18, the system was

1.xx Warrington
2.xx Halton
3.xx Ellesmere Port
4.xx Vale Royal
5.xx East Cheshire
6.xx Chester
7.xx Crewe & Nantwich
8.xx Congleton


That system then developed into the timetable book number which CCC published in the 90s, like Chester area was book number 6.

 

[JKP]

One curiosity of the several historic independent companies serving the South Somerset / Yeovil area was that not one used route numbers.
Buses showed just destination only
Companies affected included
Safeway
Hutchings & Cornelius
Pearce, Darch & Wilcox
Wakes
Brutonian
Bere Regis
Yeovilian (Kingston Coaches)

My memory is that both Brutonian and Wakes used route numbers on a least some routes.

 

[Acathater]

My memory is that both Brutonian and Wakes used route numbers on a least some routes.

None of the buses I remember them using were fitted to display numbers though I guess it's not impossible some of the later ones may have done

 

[Taunton]

The discussion about use or otherwise of route numbers reminds me that many Scottish Bus Group timetable books were not arranged in route number order, but consisted of numbered tables that generally bore no resemblance to the route numbers that they featured. It was necessary to check an index of route numbers to find which table it featured in.

My experience in Edinburgh in the 1970s was the city buses were generally known to the public by number, including some well-known combinations such as north/south through the city being referred to as "you want the 23 and 27 to get there".

Out of town the substantial Eastern Scottish operation may have had numbers, occasionally even shown, but these seemed just for the back office convenience of the accounting department, I never heard them referred to, even by staff, aided by many vehicles not having the destination on the blind, but on a gummed paper sticker inside the front windscreen. There was an enormous partitioned box of these, way more than 50, by the exit from the crew room at the main bus station, which for the conductors (still universal then for this company, although the city buses had done away with them) seemed more convenient than the various different ways of reaching the winding handles at the terminus, some of which on older double deckers involved mountaineering over the engine outside. By convention these stickers only applied outwards, when returning it was showing where they had come from, it being presumed "obvious" they were going to Edinburgh.

 

[Man of Kent]

My experience in Edinburgh in the 1970s was the city buses were generally known to the public by number, including some well-known combinations such as north/south through the city being referred to as "you want the 23 and 27 to get there".

Out of town the substantial Eastern Scottish operation may have had numbers, occasionally even shown, but these seemed just for the back office convenience of the accounting department, I never heard them referred to, even by staff, aided by many vehicles not having the destination on the blind, but on a gummed paper sticker inside the front windscreen. There was an enormous partitioned box of these, way more than 50, by the exit from the crew room at the main bus station, which for the conductors (still universal then for this company, although the city buses had done away with them) seemed more convenient than the various different ways of reaching the winding handles at the terminus, some of which on older double deckers involved mountaineering over the engine outside. By convention these stickers only applied outwards, when returning it was showing where they had come from, it being presumed "obvious" they were going to Edinburgh.

Yes, I certainly recall the paper stickers, especially when Eastern Scottish had one of its periodic vehicle shortages, and all sorts of things would appear (including Lothian PD2s, some of which were later purchased and repainted green).

But it may also have reflected that the Edinburgh depot destination blind had (from memory) more than 200 displays, potentially involving a lot of winding between routes. Said blind is somewhere in my archive, but again I can't remember if it was arranged in a broadly alphabetical, geographic or some other order.

 

[nw1]

The discussion about use or otherwise of route numbers reminds me that many Scottish Bus Group timetable books were not arranged in route number order, but consisted of numbered tables that generally bore no resemblance to the route numbers that they featured. It was necessary to check an index of route numbers to find which table it featured in.

Did Scottish even have route numbers?

I'm sure on visits to Dumfries and Galloway in the 80s that the buses were notable (compared to England) for not having route numbers. I've possibly mis-remembered, though.

 

[JKP]

Did Scottish even have route numbers?

I'm sure on visits to Dumfries and Galloway in the 80s that the buses were notable (compared to England) for not having route numbers. I've possibly mis-remembered, though.

Yes. All the Scottish Bus Group companies services had route numbers.

 

[RT4038]

Well, it does mean you have a high chance of grabbing one of the front seats on the top deck if that's your thing!

To be fair, it has always been thus - I remember travelling on lightly-loaded double-deckers in the Alder Valley Hindhead area in the late 80s during the middle of the day (obviously during half-term or holidays). They inevitably wound up on a school or college service later - indeed a good 5 or 6 of Hindhead's 9 or so decker duties proceeded to Alton College to form simultaneous departures to various parts of East Hampshire at 1625. (The other deckers were required for Midhurst or Haslemere schools, but the out-of-Guildford evening peak on the Hindhead routes was generally single-deckers by then with one exception which came off one of the school runs).

To be even fairer - not always... When I started my transport career, fully laden double deckers on journeys carrying commuters, shoppers on market days in and out of market towns, most of the day on Saturdays, Friday and Saturday evenings coming into town around 19h30 and the last bus home around 22h30, were not at all uncommon. Not every route or trip - but all evaporated now. Earlier into the 60s and 50s even more so, albeit on Double Deckers of lower capacities.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The 800 numbers were an overflow when the 300-499 ran out. Mainly 'new town' services (plus one express route).

Provincial bus companies often numbered their services in geographical blocks, for administrative convenience or often for historical reasons when companies were bought or merged and one of the companies' route numbers had one hundred (or two hundred etc) added to avoid duplication.

United Auto renumbered some of theirs when they got a new fangled computer in the 1960s, I think, as it couldn’t cope with duplicate service numbers.

 

[Statto]

Another practice back in the day, particularly when there was a Municipal operator in a Town/City, other operators were heavily restricted from picking up passengers, for instance Ribble couldn't take any local passengers in the Southport area, that practice went on until deregulation. Crosville had similar restrictions in Liverpool & Wirral, however in the early 70s the PTE changed that to limited stop under the Merseyfare banner, the major changes to the Wirral network in the late 70s ended the limited stop services, & Crosville services having been renumbered, stopped at every stop, however the limited stop continued in Liverpool until deregulation, with only the 76 & 89 observing every stop.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Another United Auto practice (that may have happened elsewhere) was the practice of setting the blind for an onward connection. For instance…

The 26 ran down Wensleydale from Hawes to Richmond but drivers were instructed (on the running board) to show DARLINGTON for onward connection. The connection was via 27/28 Catterick Garrison- Richmond- Darlington route that still runs now (as Arriva X26/X27). Of course, the connection wasn’t displayed the other way!

Oddly, the practice wasn’t replicated on the “parallel” service 30 from Swaledale to Richmond.

It may have been that there had been direct journeys in a bygone age. United vehicles running into Morpeth from Rothbury or Wooler also showed the connection NEWCASTLE but there were some journeys that did run through even if most didn’t.

 

[MotCO]

The 26 ran down Wensleydale from Hawes to Richmond but drivers were instructed (on the running board) to show DARLINGTON for onward connection. The connection was via 27/28 Catterick Garrison- Richmond- Darlington route that still runs now (as Arriva X26/X27). Of course, the connection wasn’t displayed the other way!

Oddly, the practice wasn’t replicated on the “parallel” service 30 from Swaledale to Richmond.

Maybe the 26 had a timed connection, whereas the 30 wasn't suitably timed.

 

[Martin1988]

Back when Andybus used to do the 41 between Malmesbury and Yate, I remember the regular driver often stopping off at the Post Office/Newsgaents in Badminton. Particularly on the last trip of the day towards Yate.

 

[mangad]

Another United Auto practice (that may have happened elsewhere) was the practice of setting the blind for an onward connection. For instance…

The 26 ran down Wensleydale from Hawes to Richmond but drivers were instructed (on the running board) to show DARLINGTON for onward connection. The connection was via 27/28 Catterick Garrison- Richmond- Darlington route that still runs now (as Arriva X26/X27). Of course, the connection wasn’t displayed the other way!

I went to Norway many years ago and they did this all the time there on regional routes. A bus would turn up with your destination on it, only for it to stop in the middle of nowhere, turf you off with the driver telling you to wait! We went before online route planning, so were regularly lost at what was going on. The timetables didn't help. They'd show the service as being a through one without mentioning the need to change, and definitely not where to do so!

It would regularly get even more confusing. We were at one town and found that - if you read the timetables displayed - there could be eight or nine different services all turning up at the same time. Of course they didn't. It was simply one bus that turned up that would connect with multiple other services.

 

[gg1]

There do seem to be two schools of thought about clashing route numbers from the same bus company.

Clashes could of course produce genuine confusion if e.g. two route 4s operate in the same area, but also to my mind there's something awfully messy about the same bus brand operating duplicate numbers (I say brand, not company - I obviously have no problem with Bluestar and More operating the same numbered services, for example, because as well as being in different areas they are entirely different brands).

Probably just a personal idiosyncrasy of mine - but it does appear that NBC and early privatisation adopted the "no clashes" philosophy within a given brand so there must have been something in it!

I think the logic of the change is a smaller number is easier to remember, which I can see for a single digit number but I'm not convinced a 2 digit number is significantly easier to remember than a 3 digit one, certainly not enough to justify the confusion of number duplication.

It may of course just be my own internal bias because it was what I was used to from childhood to my mid/late 30s, but the system of all services by the same operator in the same connurbation having unique numbers is by far the most logical system. Coventry services had the same operator too, but since it was a separate network to the Birmingham/Black Country one (even in the 80s there were IIRC 6tph between Coventy and New Street so buses between the two connurbations were unneccessary) number clashes weren't a problem.

 

[Oxfordblues]

I have a vague half-memory of quaintly-flowery notices on some buses. One was "Passengers are respectfully requested to refrain from smoking" instead of plain "No smoking" (even when there were "stubbers" on the sea-backs!). Another was "Passengers desirous of alighting are asked to advise the driver by operating the bell-push" instead of "Ring bell to stop bus".

 

[edwin_m]

"Passengers are respectfully requested to refrain from smoking" instead of plain "No smoking" (even when there were "stubbers" on the sea-backs!).

Was this on the top deck? Usually the lower deck was completely non-smoking but smoking was allowed on the upper but perhaps discouraged. In the 70s Greater Manchester buses had "Please do not smoke" on the top deck, which was only a transfer and almost universally scratched out to read "Fleas do not smoke".

 

[DunsBus]

Glasgow had the monopoly boundary which was in place from 1930 until c1982 where the Scottish Bus Group was barred from carrying passengers wholly within the city; the various local chapters (Central, Eastern, Midland and Western) were only allowed to set down on the way in and pick up on the way out.

Along the M8 in Edinburgh, it wasn't quite as drastic. Here, the SBG were allowed to carry city passengers at 1p more than the equivalent LRT fare. LRT, at the time - with a couple of exceptions - ran within the city limits. It's incredible to think now that up until October 1986 this was a scenario which was repeated all over Britain.

 

[gg1]

Not technically 'on buses' but:

Old buses and coaches being repurposed by their operators as breakdown vehicles, used to be relatively common but I don't think I've seen one this century. Does anyone know if there are any still in use?

 

[The exile]

I don't know if it was universal, but when I went to secondary school in about 1965 it was nearly an hour's journey each way on one or more London Country (Country Buses?) RTs.
The bell signals were 1 ring from anybody for a request stop, 2 for "right away" (obviously from the conductor only) and 3 from the conductor/conductress: "Full up: ignore people at request stops!" I was very glad that I boarded before it became F&S.

Being of a certain vintage, I can remember having it drummed into me that once someone had rung the bell to request a stop “you mustn’t ring it again” as it would confuse the driver (thus being the transition era to opo). If only it still applied - drivers must now get fed up with near incessant ringing by people taking no heed of what’s going on around them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Dec 2025 ==

Along the M8 in Edinburgh, it wasn't quite as drastic. Here, the SBG were allowed to carry city passengers at 1p more than the equivalent LRT fare. LRT, at the time - with a couple of exceptions - ran within the city limits. It's incredible to think now that up until October 1986 this was a scenario which was repeated all over Britain.

Though the “green buses” only stopped at selected stops.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

drivers must now get fed up with near incessant ringing by people taking no heed of what’s going on around them.

Some drivers of the school bus would go mad, probably only used to charter work where there's someone in charge. Usually once the ones at the back figured out it caused chaos they then did it more.

Became less of a thing once that charter company took over the route all days and we got drivers more prepared for school work.

 

[Harpo]

Passengers walking to the exit ready for their stop and conductors belling the driver as soon as the last boarder has got both feet off the platform.