• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Quiet coach etiquette

Status
Not open for further replies.

Hellfire

Member
Joined
14 Dec 2012
Messages
573
Personally I find the loud, frequent, unnecessary automated announcements - which on SWT are also broadcast in the so-called quiet coach - and the equally unnecessary and near-interminable announcements of the guard much more annoying than the chatter of my fellow passengers.

Agree with this. I get on at Preston where, shortly after leaving we hear 'bing bong' then are told we are on the whatever time Pendolino to Euston, that first class is at the front, standard at the back, (yes we know that we are sitting on the train) then we should all take time to go along to the vestibule and read the safety notices (no one ever does) and that this is a peak train ( bit late if you have got the wrong ticket as we are already moving). Hardly has the train manager paused for breath then George is on the tannoy telling us the shop is in coach C and listing every conceivable item that we might want to buy.

12 minutes down the line we get to Wigan where, shortly after departure, we get the same thing all over again. another 10 minutes or so and we leave Warrington BQ and, guess what.... Please leave us in peace. Unless the train is on fire Ireally don't want to know
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

3141

Established Member
Joined
1 Apr 2012
Messages
2,116
Location
Whitchurch, Hampshire
I think 3141 was TIC (hope so :D ) .

YES!!! That's why I included the question "but would it be worth doing?" which I hoped implied that the answer should be No.

Basically, I think how you should behave in the quiet coach is to recognise that that's what it is, and show consideration for others. Unfortunately some do not. We can't expect the guard to enforce everything. In moments of escapism we might imagine retribution overtaking offenders, perhaps in the way I suggested, or maybe by instant vaporisation, but that's probably not going to happen, and the only real long-term solution is a greater readiness by other passengers to express their disapproval of transgressors. Even that wouldn't work in every case but it would go a long way.
 

al78

Established Member
Joined
7 Jan 2013
Messages
2,600
As in they expect it to be as quiet as their house when they are the only person at home?

No, they expect it ok to be as loud and annoying as they like because in their world no-one else exists.

The civilized principle of thought and consideration for other people applies in any public place, that is not the same as expecting silence (a straw-man argument).
 

Senex

Established Member
Joined
1 Apr 2014
Messages
2,956
Location
York
No, they expect it ok to be as loud and annoying as they like because in their world no-one else exists.

The civilized principle of thought and consideration for other people applies in any public place, that is not the same as expecting silence (a straw-man argument).

Well put -- it's not just in quiet coaches but in so many public areas these days that all too many people do indeed expect it to be OK to be as loud, annoying, thoughtless, and inconsiderate as they like because in their world no-one else exists. Another and very different manifestation of just the same phenomenon is the people walking briskly along a busy pavement intent on the mobile phone screens and simply expecting everyone else to get out of their way.

To return to quiet coaches on trains, a very significant part of the market for train travel, whose full fares the TOCs need, are businesspeople who want to work in peace whilst they travel. Their needs and preferences are every bit as important as those of the family with loud uncontrolled children or the loutish youths with their "music".

I have previously mentioned the quiet compartments in Holland of some years ago that really were quiet. The quiet coaches I have encountered on DB have generally been decently quiet, with only the low murmur of conversation between colleagues to be heard, and other occupants have on the whole been very ready to comment if people began to do anything loud. But who would dare to do that in this country? The fellow-traveller would not be backed up by railway staff, who would not be backed up by their bosses if they tried, who in turn would get no backing from the British legal system if they tried ....
 

Tetchytyke

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Sep 2013
Messages
17,519
Location
Isle of Man
Not if (shudders at memory!) you are stone cold sober and become the target for their mocking pseudo-"lust".....

Meh, just go along with the joke, I've had some good craic with some hammered hen parties before. As for being "tactile", "ooh the wife would rip my testicles off" is normally enough to get them to leave you alone ;)

CC 72100 said:
Hmm, suggest that the other way round to a woman faced with a stag party and see if they'd be happy to 'go along with it'.

Oh no wait, a group of women with a guy is a no problem, even a joke, the other way round is a big no-no.

There's different power dynamics with a group of men against a lone passenger and a group of women against a lone passenger. I'm more wary of male groups than I am of female groups, I don't think it is "double standards" to be aware of that.

That said, I'd say the advice is usually the same for both groups: go along with the joke and have a laugh, so long as they're not getting personal or intimidating. It can often be quite enjoyable, I've ended up hammered with groups of football fans and hen parties before because of it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
other occupants have on the whole been very ready to comment if people began to do anything loud. But who would dare to do that in this country?

I would. "Excuse me mate, it's the quiet coach, I've got a headache, can you keep the noise down a bit?" is often enough. Most loud people are simply inconsiderate not malicious, and are happy to tone it down when you ask them to.

That said, it'll be a long time until I forget the horror of one of Doncaster's finest- he had a face like a worn out crash test dummy- spending the whole journey from Kings Cross on his mobile about how he'd met a woman in London and had anal sex with her. Mostly because he looked like a mannequin that had been left next to the fire too long. I'm not easily shocked, given my job, but that fair turned my stomach.
 
Last edited:

sheff1

Established Member
Joined
24 Dec 2009
Messages
6,059
Location
Sheffield
To return to quiet coaches on trains, a very significant part of the market for train travel, whose full fares the TOCs need, are businesspeople who want to work in peace whilst they travel.

Self important businesspeople, who believe their right to shout into mobile phones trumps anyone else's desire for peace, are some of the worst offenders in my experience.
 

rdwarr

Member
Joined
2 Feb 2012
Messages
401
Location
Stevenage
A couple of weeks ago I was sitting next to a guy playing a Bond film on his tablet and started watching too. When he said "Excuse me, this is my personal device" I pointed out that he appeared to have no problem with the entire carriage listening to the film.
He turned his headphone volume down - job done.
 

47271

Established Member
Joined
28 Apr 2015
Messages
2,983
A couple of weeks ago I was sitting next to a guy playing a Bond film on his tablet and started watching too. When he said "Excuse me, this is my personal device" I pointed out that he appeared to have no problem with the entire carriage listening to the film.
He turned his headphone volume down - job done.
I had to listen to back to back Shaun the Sheep episodes between Perth and Edinburgh the other day - I didn't bother to look but I assume they were being laid for the entertainment of a child rather than an adult.

I wouldn't have minded so much if I'd been able see what was going on, I quite like the show, but over an hour of squeaks, grunts and a blast of the music every few minutes became quite wearing.
 

Tio Terry

Member
Joined
2 May 2014
Messages
1,198
Location
Spain
There are Quiet Coaches on the London Waterloo to Reading services.

Nobody pays a blind bit of notice to them and treat them as any other coach.
 

satisnek

Member
Joined
5 Sep 2014
Messages
1,097
Location
Kidderminster/Mercia Marina
Quiet coaches are a turn of the century innovation when the state of the art was those ghastly Nokia phones with their piercing, steely beeping and excessively long text alerts ('SMS SMS' in Morse code, remember?), not to mention those people who gabbled into them until the battery ran out. Today we need quiet coaches more than ever, but unless they're backed up by law (as non-smoking areas have always been) they're totally ineffectual - and, as has been mentioned upthread, where do you draw the line?

Perhaps it should also be mentioned that inexpensive headphones leaking sound have been around since the introduction of the original Sony Stowaway (as it was marketed in the UK) 35 years ago. However, today's music is both produced and reproduced in the digital domain with a resultant much stronger treble content, thus the problem is now more acute than it used to be.
 

Alan White

Member
Joined
15 Apr 2015
Messages
77
Today we need quiet coaches more than ever
Like it or not, electronic devices are a fact of modern life and while people should use them respectfully near others it's unrealistic to expect quiet on a transport system.

Personally on a crowded railway I'd prefer more coaches that everyone can use (yes, this does mean removing first class but we had that discussion recently). If travelling by bus would you expect every fourth bus to be usable only by those who want quiet?

In any case, the OP wasn't complaining about electronic devices but about her fellow passengers talking.
 

kermit

Member
Joined
2 May 2011
Messages
631
Well, this thread has prompted me to have a good old think, and I'm grateful to the OP for that, discussion and debate are the only practical way yet devised for us humans to shuffle along together without resorting to violence.

As has been pointed out a number of times above, objective measurement for the purpose of enforcing any legal rule is effectively impossible. Lawyers might make some money from it, but it would be unlikely to make many people happier.

Some of the posts here have, in my view, fallen prey to the widespread assumption that things are getting worse. I have to confess I'm prone to a bit of that myself. But I cast my mind back to the early 1970s, when I was a quite frequent user of the rail system. As has already been observed, the very concept of a quiet coach in an era of jointed track, opening windows etc would have been somewhat optimistic.

But were fellow passengers really that much more accommodating of other people's wishes?

First, there was the universally assumed right to smoke. A habit never taken up by more than half of the population, with pernicious effects on bystanders far beyond irritation at somebody producing sound, was nevertheless inflicted, fag butts, ash, smoke, smell and all, on everybody, even in the often-pathetically-insulated non smoking sections. I remember as a kid being trapped in a suburban full-width compartment (ie no possibility of escape whatsoever) in winter rain (no option to open a window) with seven or more enthusiastic smokers. It was horrible. Mind you, that and the thick treacly yellow patch on the ceiling above my granny's armchair managed to counteract the "glamorous" images with which we were bombarded, so hey ho.

Then there were Inter City journeys. It really did seem in those days as if buffet cars actually came equipped with half a dozen half ****ed squaddies stood in the corridor, complete with cans of Younger's Tartan, an abundance of fags, and a range of salacious chat up lines for your older sister, rapidly turning to hostile abuse if she didn't respond "nicely".

Then there were journeys on a Saturday in the football season! I think I've probably erased some of them from my memory. There was actual blood at times, and back in the early 70s, a general feeling that there was nothing much you could do about it, but avoid if possible.

All of which makes me think that a discussion of the concept of a public-library-on-wheels might need a bit of perspective.
 

Howardh

Established Member
Joined
17 May 2011
Messages
9,777
I've found that if someone next to me or opposite is on their mobile phone consistantly, taking my camera out and recording what's going on out of the window miraculously makes them stop!
They've no idea whether the footage from out of the window, with sound (!) will end up on youtube or not!
 

34D

Established Member
Joined
9 Feb 2011
Messages
6,043
Location
Yorkshire
Quite.

When I see a gaggle of tipsy 'hens' tripping along the platform waving a giant inflatable penis I do wonder what the response would be to blokes waving a giant inflatable model of the female pudenda?

The female what?
 

alxndr

Established Member
Joined
3 Apr 2015
Messages
1,688
The most noise I will make in a quiet coach is the occasional low whisper to my partner about something pertaining to the location we're passing (anything else can wait), or the unzipping of my bag. I once ate half an apple, as I'd started it in the vestibule and was getting nagged by my partner to join her, and felt exposed and awful whilst doing so, and certainly won't be doing that again. When I listen to music through headphones I first check it can't be heard before shoving them in my ears, it's just courteous, and I like my hearing!

I always opt for the quiet coach if I can because I'm not a huge fan of noisy crowds (who is?) and given the option of avoiding them I'll always do so. More often than not, if I can't get into the quiet coach I'll stand in the vestibule for the journey, because to me it's more pleasant, I can hear my own music and look out the window, or read without distraction from other people. The fact that I have to stand is less of an irritant to me than the background noise. I don't blame anyone for the fact though, it's just one of those things. It's me that's being fussy, they're all within their right to use the (regular) carriages how they want, and I have no problem removing myself if I don't like it. If it's people being loud in the quiet coach though, I do tend to be a little peeved.

(By "loud" I mean incessant loud conversation, complete with giggles, that I can hear every word of half the carriage away.)
 

HowardGWR

Established Member
Joined
30 Jan 2013
Messages
4,981
Can first class travellers tell us if it essentially a non-problem in those areas please? This would be justification enough to demand pax pay extra if they want peace. Perhaps 'First class quiet' could be a clincher fare, if a portion of accommodation could be so provided. Rule, no personal entertainment or use of phones, only quiet conversation allowed. Mind you I still don't see why one could not have a similar supplement for second class as well.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
You obviously led a very sheltered childhood!

No. like me, he didn't go to Eton and Cambridge!
 

bramling

Veteran Member
Joined
5 Mar 2012
Messages
20,363
Location
Hertfordshire / Teesdale
Like it or not, electronic devices are a fact of modern life and while people should use them respectfully near others it's unrealistic to expect quiet on a transport system.

Personally on a crowded railway I'd prefer more coaches that everyone can use (yes, this does mean removing first class but we had that discussion recently). If travelling by bus would you expect every fourth bus to be usable only by those who want quiet?

In any case, the OP wasn't complaining about electronic devices but about her fellow passengers talking.

Everyone can use the quiet coach, just subject to certain behavioural rules.

Is it really the end of the world to be expected to keep quiet should one happen to end up in the quiet coach if that's the only remaining free seat? Evidently for some people the answer to that seems to be yes.
 

QueensCurve

Established Member
Joined
22 Dec 2014
Messages
2,196
Does anyone else feel strongly about the level of noise in the quiet coach in Virgin Pendalinos? Sometimes, but not always, staff will ask passengers not to use mobile phones but there's nothing about keeping conversation to a minimum. On my last two journeys from Euston to Glasgow some people talked non stop all the way. Then there's the issue of families with young children being booked into the quiet coach- that's never going to work. I've been in touch with Virgin asking what are the rules for the quiet coach but just got a generic reply
saying sorry I'd been inconvenienced. Curious to know is it just me? What do others think?

The quiet coach is a good idea, but it runs into problems right away when Virgin brand it with one of the most annoying forms of noise: headphones.

It would be great to be able to escape the appalling tinny squeal that leaks out of "personal" audio devices, but there seems to be no will on the part of operators to enforce not using such in their quiet coaches.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Well, I'd pay extra.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Yes you could, if they paid extra not to.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


No, it is meant to be 'quiet' as in no noise. One can have conversations without being at all noisy. Like in a library.

I was somewhat taken aback when passing Colwich on a Glasgow to Euston a lady in the next bay repremanded me for recounting the 1986 Colwich crash to my fellow traveller.

I hadn't thought talking was not allowed. I went on to whisper as there is no point gratuitously annoying people.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Quite.

When I see a gaggle of tipsy 'hens' tripping along the platform waving a giant inflatable penis I do wonder what the response would be to blokes waving a giant inflatable model of the female pudenda?

Even in the Quiet Coach there are bizarre social rules relating to the male and female bits which defy all logic.
 

miami

Established Member
Joined
3 Oct 2015
Messages
3,305
I'd love to know if my headphones (Bose qc25s) are noticeable. I typically have them on, with noise cancelling turned on, and iPod at 2 or maybe 3 depending on what I'm listening too (some classical stuff has a dramatic dynamic range!).

If I turn the noise cancelling off the sound becomes inaudible, and if I take them off I can't hear them at all even before they get to my lap.

But by all means ban me from the quiet coach while you prattle on about your cousins hip operation or a friends funeral or whatever the "no electronics" crowd talk about.
 

Llanigraham

On Moderation
Joined
23 Mar 2013
Messages
6,487
Location
Powys
Even in the Quiet Coach there are bizarre social rules relating to the male and female bits which defy all logic.

Surely, as long as you are being quite about it anything is allowed................. :oops:








Coat on, leaving the coach now.
 

QueensCurve

Established Member
Joined
22 Dec 2014
Messages
2,196
I'd love to know if my headphones (Bose qc25s) are noticeable. I typically have them on, with noise cancelling turned on, and iPod at 2 or maybe 3 depending on what I'm listening too (some classical stuff has a dramatic dynamic range!).

If I turn the noise cancelling off the sound becomes inaudible, and if I take them off I can't hear them at all even before they get to my lap.

But by all means ban me from the quiet coach while you prattle on about your cousins hip operation or a friends funeral or whatever the "no electronics" crowd talk about.

The mere sight of them would cause me stress.
 

alxndr

Established Member
Joined
3 Apr 2015
Messages
1,688
The quiet coach is a good idea, but it runs into problems right away when Virgin brand it with one of the most annoying forms of noise: headphones.



It would be great to be able to escape the appalling tinny squeal that leaks out of "personal" audio devices, but there seems to be no will on the part of operators to enforce not using such in their quiet coaches.

So you'd quite happily ban all headphone users, even though not all of us are inconsiderate? Whenever I start listening to music I switch my iPod on, check it cannot be heard, and then pop the earphones into my ears. If I suspect I might be listening to a louder song/genre I'll check again. I've never once found I could hear them when they're not in my ears, and they're nothing fancy.

Perhaps I'm in a minority, but I know how irritating it can be listening to the overspills of someone else's headphones (it was a constant issue at school), and don't want to subject anyone else to it.
 
Last edited:

Bookd

Member
Joined
27 Aug 2015
Messages
445
I plead guilty to answering a phone call in the quiet coach on an SWT Reading train last week; in mitigation I had overlooked the notices as it was the last available seat and the coach was so packed that it was a struggle for alightilng passengers to reach the doors. In such circumstances anyone seeking a quiet journey will be sadly disappointed.
 

Iskra

Established Member
Joined
11 Jun 2014
Messages
10,687
Location
West Riding
Can first class travellers tell us if it essentially a non-problem in those areas please? This would be justification enough to demand pax pay extra if they want peace. Perhaps 'First class quiet' could be a clincher fare, if a portion of accommodation could be so provided. Rule, no personal entertainment or use of phones, only quiet conversation allowed. Mind you I still don't see why one could not have a similar supplement for second class as well.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


No. like me, he didn't go to Eton and Cambridge!

First class is generally fairly peaceful on proper intercity trains, which is why I usually travel long distance in first (albeit on advances). However, it isn't immune from the odd pretentious business person having a loud phone call.

I generally don't bother with 1st on 185's, 350's and 180's as you have so many people walking through all the time that it isn't peaceful.
 

Class377

Member
Joined
24 Aug 2009
Messages
444
Some people will take offence at anything in those coaches though. On more than one occasion my reservation has put me in a quiet coach without asking, and I'm not sure why I should change my already quiet-enough travelling habits in that case.

On one occasion I have got on a quiet coach, and to block out the announcements to some extent have put in a pair of earphones and not played any music at all. That was still enough for the passenger next to me to ask me to turn my music off! Either he had a very precious view of his silence, or he was hearing voices :lol:

If you're getting on a train, you have to share it with members of the public. Unless you get into power and start breeding a race of silent citizens then you're going to have noise on a train. A tiny bit of music leaking through your earphones or a quiet conversation isn't going to kill you, or even ruin your day, so why bother getting worked up over it?

(I must confess, when people have complained about noise in the quiet coach - not even my own noise - I have been very tempted to start faking a loud coughing fit to see how worked up they get!)
 

47271

Established Member
Joined
28 Apr 2015
Messages
2,983
First class is generally fairly peaceful on proper intercity trains, which is why I usually travel long distance in first (albeit on advances). However, it isn't immune from the odd pretentious business person having a loud phone call.

I generally don't bother with 1st on 185's, 350's and 180's as you have so many people walking through all the time that it isn't peaceful.
Noisy types in long distance First, Quiet Coach or not, I think there are? People bellowing into mobiles, pretentious business conversations between those present sounding like something out of The Apprentice, quite a few people who let their kids run amok (remember that there's nothing to say that you can only lose control of your children in Standard, but I say, why waste money on a big seat in First for someone 4' tall?) and groups of drunks on 'special occasions'.

Generally worse on the East Coast - and particularly (the wealthy drunks) on trains to and from Aberdeen I find. On the West, there's enough capacity on Pendolinos (Coach G on 11 cars is by far the safest) to avoid these characters, even in as much as to move elsewhere when you spot them as you board.

Again, regardless of whether you're in the Quiet Coach or not, best bet on any East Coast electric First Class is to book one of the 1+1 seats mid carriage. A nice smooth ride and minimum of fellow travellers around!
The mere sight of them would cause me stress.
 

theblackwatch

Established Member
Joined
15 Feb 2006
Messages
10,889
To be honest, I see mobiles of being less of a problem to what they were 10 years ago - most people now have access to email or other messenger services on their phones or laptops to get in touch with people. Its very rare that I now have to listen to an 'important' businesswoman telling the whole carriage her company confidential business! (And yes, that is something I listened to once for around 20 minutes - I was very tempted to get my phone out afterwards and say something like "You won't believe what I've heard someone saying in my carriage...." :P )
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top