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Agreed. We occasionally have to lock rear units out of use due to no staff, but it’s pretty rare. Having a staff presence in each unit is preferable from a passenger point of view as well. Why on earth people want to see fewer staff on intercity trains “because it works on Southern/Southeastern” is beyond me.
People don’t want no staff presence in a unit, but if a member of staff is absent, they would rather be able to still sit in said unit rather than it being locked out and having to stand in the other unit.
How does that work then if the extra staff member is in the front of the train and the person who takes ill is in the back carriage of that portion? The passcom is getting pulled.
How does that work then if the extra staff member is in the front of the train and the person who takes ill is in the back carriage of that portion? The passcom is getting pulled.
A member staff in the unit means the passcom is less likely to be pulled in the first place. That’s certainly been my experience in years of driving both DOO and guarded trains.
If it is pulled it can also be reset much more quickly.
A member staff in the unit means the passcom is less likely to be pulled in the first place. That’s certainly been my experience in years of driving both DOO and guarded trains.
im not doubting the need for a second person in the second portion - merely questioning whether it is just down from medical reasons as i first quoted. It just makes perfect sense to have someone in there anyway - you dont need a made up excuse
im not doubting the need for a second person in the second portion - merely questioning whether it is just down from medical reasons as i first quoted. It just makes perfect sense to have someone in there anyway - you dont need a made up excuse
If the person becomes aware of a medical emergency they can call emergency services, TOC control etc. and get a plan of action together in terms of where best to stop, and liaise with the driver. They could also make a PA asking for medically trained people on the train to make themselves known. It’s one advantage of having someone in each unit, but by no means the only one.
More gangwayed stock would be a nice thing.
Something the authorities should revisit is if the special rules 125 stock require are actually necessary and bring safety benefits. If you could have a go anywhere 125 capable EMU that could also be used as a commuter train you'd bring lots of operational benefits, and if it's gangwayed even more, such as more flexible SDO and being able to change direction while not at a station.
More gangwayed stock would be a nice thing.
Something the authorities should revisit is if the special rules 125 stock require are actually necessary and bring safety benefits. If you could have a go anywhere 125 capable EMU that could also be used as a commuter train you'd bring lots of operational benefits, and if it's gangwayed even more, such as more flexible SDO and being able to change direction while not at a station.
Normal cabs are loud enough at 125mph without having gangway doors letting the breeze in.
Multiple TOCs issue ear defenders to their drivers due to wind noise in cabs - and having previously signed 387s I can assure you that if my TOC ordered 125mph gangway stock then I'd look for a new job.
My hearing is more important than how much I enjoy my current position.
Multiple TOCs issue ear defenders to their drivers due to wind noise in cabs - and having previously signed 387s I can assure you that if my TOC ordered 125mph gangway stock then I'd look for a new job.
In addition, Avanti have 1 train per hour each way that is non-stop Warrington - Euston, 1 hour and 50 minutes.
Lumo have a 3 hour gap between Kings Cross and Newcastle (Stevenage stops have a 2.5hr journey to Newcastle)
Grand Central also have the 2 hour London - York non stop on their Sunderland services (except the 1tpd each way that stops at Peterbrough)
GWR's Night Riviera has a long journey from Reading to Exeter, and the Caledonian Lowlander has a long run from Watford to Preston (3h 20m) without a station stop, and the Highlander has 2 and a half hours from London to Crewe.
In addition, Avanti have 1 train per hour each way that is non-stop Warrington - Euston, 1 hour and 50 minutes.
Lumo have a 3 hour gap between Kings Cross and Newcastle (Stevenage stops have a 2.5hr journey to Newcastle)
Grand Central also have the 2 hour London - York non stop on their Sunderland services (except the 1tpd each way that stops at Peterbrough)
GWR's Night Riviera has a long journey from Reading to Exeter, and the Caledonian Lowlander has a long run from Watford to Preston (3h 20m) without a station stop, and the Highlander has 2 and a half hours from London to Crewe.
Isn't the whole point that -- should you encounter a medical (or other) emergency -- that there are many, many intermediate stations that said service can stop at to get assistance?
None of your examples are short of options, should the unfortunate need arise.
Isn't the whole point that -- should you encounter a medical (or other) emergency -- that there are many, many intermediate stations that said service can stop at to get assistance?
None of your examples are short of options, should the unfortunate need arise.
Stopping costs £££ when 90% of issues can be dealt with on the move without delaying your own train and trains behind.
I would say only 1% of passcom activations I've dealt with were real emergencies - and of them I continued to a major station rather than stopping at some remote shack.
Stopping costs £££ when 90% of issues can be dealt with on the move without delaying your own train and trains behind.
I would say only 1% of passcom activations I've dealt with were real emergencies - and of them I continued to a major station rather than stopping at some remote shack.
My only point was the tenuous comments above suggesting that there's nowhere suitable to stop in a medical emergency for ~2 hours, when in fact there are many options. If you're on a Warrington to Euston non-stop run as cited above, for example, you wouldn't necessarily crack on to Euston and disregard all the major (some even NR managed) stations en route to get help.
My only point was the tenuous comments above suggesting that there's nowhere suitable to stop in a medical emergency for ~2 hours, when in fact there are many options. If you're on a Warrington to Euston non-stop run as cited above, for example, you wouldn't necessarily crack on to Euston and disregard all the major (some even NR managed) stations en route to get help.
Again I don't think the distance is the biggest issue, it's that on the current railway any out of course stop immediately causes huge delays - even when on 4-track sections.
The last real emergency I had was a passenger having some sort of fit on my train. The passcom wasn't even activated, another passenger got the attention of the catering staff who told the TM.
The TM crewcalled me as I was passing Brookmans Park and explained the situation. I made a priority call to the signaller and asked her for a clear run to Kings Cross and to organise an ambulance to meet us on the platform.
The plan worked perfectly. Upon arrival in London one of those paramedics on bicycles was waiting at the right part of the train, and an ambulance crew was not far behind.
If there were no staff able to go and assess the situation while we were moving, and I was the only person able to talk to a passenger via the passcom - I wouldn't know if it was a panic attack, a heart attack, stroke etc. I'd have to stop on the mainline to go back and investigate, and reset the passcom, and given my own experiences in DOO land continue to a major station to meet an ambulance anyway.
There is then the increased risk of secondary incidents on trains trapped behind, especially during busy times of day.
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Again I don't think the distance is the biggest issue, it's that on the current railway any out of course stop immediately causes huge delays - even when on 4-track sections.
The last real emergency I had was a passenger having some sort of fit on my train. The passcom wasn't even activated, another passenger got the attention of the catering staff who told the TM.
The TM crewcalled me as I was passing Brookmans Park and explained the situation. I made a priority call to the signaller and asked her for a clear run to Kings Cross and to organise an ambulance to meet us on the platform.
The plan worked perfectly. Upon arrival in London one of those paramedics on bicycles was waiting at the right part of the train, and an ambulance crew was not far behind.
If there were no staff able to go and assess the situation while we were moving, and I was the only person able to talk to a passenger via the passcom - I wouldn't know if it was a panic attack, a heart attack, stroke etc. I'd have to stop on the mainline to go back and investigate, and reset the passcom, and given my own experiences in DOO land continue to a major station to meet an ambulance anyway.
There is then the increased risk of secondary incidents on trains trapped behind, especially during busy times of day.
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Indeed. For intercity operators its a different question to metro and local services. I'd be astounded if one couldn't write a business case for LNER's Customer Experience Leaders in the front 5 car of a 10 car set. Given that they already justify having onboard crew anyway, the addition of said competencies and rostering one to each 10 car train can't be that much of an expense, compared to the impact of operating without them, the attendant incidents of drivers having to stop to investigate passcoms etc, and the impact and delay caused to all the trains in rear.
Multiple TOCs issue ear defenders to their drivers due to wind noise in cabs - and having previously signed 387s I can assure you that if my TOC ordered 125mph gangway stock then I'd look for a new job.
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